Hi--It seems I've found a rust free 240 wagon in my price range and am deciding between a 91 and 93--both 5 speed. All other things being equal except for interior color which do I want and why? Both have running air con and most all other options are working on both. There is a price difference in the 93 being offered for more. Is the 93 better just because it was the last year made? Is it significantly better? Will the air con last longer on this one? Will the 91 have the same gusto in a few years? Both also have the same mileage within 1k miles. I would be satisfied with both but am buying from photos and descriptions only as they are far away. Both have been highly maintained by certified and very qualified Volvo mechanics for the last 15 years. This is a good dilemma to have but I can't decide! All you Volvo gurus out there give me some advice. What should be the deciding factor?

Thanks! Monique

It doesn't matter on whether the car is a 91 or a 93. The key to any used car is mileage and condition. Volvo makes a kit to move the R12 system to R134a. I installed one on my 86 and it works great. Just get someone without a dog in this fight to check each of them out, and then listen to his opinion about which one is the "better" car.

These two cars were in different locations. I was going for the 91 but the guy sold it from under me. Looking at another car now. Neither of the ones mentioned. Fingers crossed!

I skimmed through all these emails only to find out you bought neither the '91 nor the '93; he who hesitates . . .

Look, I've seen this before on other forums, i.e., discussing a topic to no end and for no reason. Beyond '86 it doesn't matter what year you buy since there are only three things to consider: condition, condition and condition. What you might give up on one model year, you gain on another.

For example, I love the ABS now that I have it, but I would rather deal with an aging conventional system than an ABS system going hinky with age. On the other hand, I would rather change front brake hoses on an ABS CAR. See how this could go on forever?

As long as the body and paint are rock solid, anything else is a matter of undoing and bolting back up . . . even a blower motor.

Rich

perfect answer. Thanks. I'm going for an 89 now. Wanted the 91 badly and called to put a deposit down and the guy sold it from under me. Stupid dealer. Oh well. My 88 sedan is awesome! Engine runs perfect still with about 230k on it. Just rusted through the bottom, rusty transmission mount, brake fluid leak, clutch went out a couple months ago and exhaust fell off. My Volvo mechanic won't even fix it. I need a new one. And soon. :)

Glad to hear you're buying the 89. No big deal about the ECU (computer). If the 89 has the pink label #563 (bad one) just drive it. It may never go bad. However, it wouldn't hurt to pick up a good used one out of a junkyard sometime. They are easy to change. You can do it yourself. It is located under the dash on the passenger side. Do a search on the BB for details.

Good luck with 89!

Is an 88 interchangeable? I can take the one out of my 88 before I get rid of it.

Not an ECU match - the 1988 has an LH 2.2 system, the 1989 a 2.4.

A better backup option to that 561 ecu would be the 951 model.

That's not to say that there aren't a bunch of parts that will transplant from the 88 to the 89. If the 88 is going direcly to the crusher, scavenge as much as you can in bulbs, relays, sensors, switches, components, instruments etc as possible before it walks the green mile. A box of spares in the trunk - e.g., FI relay, OD relay, bulb out sensor, coil, cap, rotor, etc can really make diagnosing and fixing common problems much less of a chore, especially during a road breakdown.

Thanks! Not sure where she is going yet. Makes me sort of sad to think of the "crusher." :(

Thanks! Fingers crossed I will get it!

I prefer the 91 92 over 93 because they have the improved AC but still with
R12.The pag oil used with the R134 can be very corrosive when exposed to moisture ,Here R12a (hydrocarbon based)is available at walmart(works very
well even in some ways better than R12)
--
Rene

Where do you live that you can buy R12A?

The presence of the more modern R134A air conditioning system on the 93 would be a big plus for me. Repairs on any A/C system can be $$$, but on the older R12 systems the cost can skyrocket. Living in WI snow country would make me look kindly on the ABS, and this time of year you should have no trouble finding a slippery spot to test it.

The main factor is the condition of the two contenders, and whether there is evidence (shop receipts are good) of regular maintenance. If all factors are fairly equal, I would pick the 93.

Some time has passed since your original post - if you have decided and bought, we would be interested to hear which you chose!
--
Bob: son's XC70, dtr's '94-940, my 81GL, 83-DL, 89-745(V8) and 98-S90. Also 77-MGB and some old motorcycles.

Hi--You're right I have not checked the Brickboard in a while. I was set on the 1991 and the guy sold the car from under me the day I was going to send a deposit. Hard to compete long distance with others that are local and crooked dealers!!! I was so bummed out so just stopped looking and recently renewed my search. I have my eye on a 1989 and really want it badly. What is your opinion on this year of a car? I drive an 88 now and don't know the difference so this would be one year newer and less prone to rust as the metal surface improved in 1989. The AC has been converted but probably does not run stellar though I would need the heat more than the AC in this climate! :)

Downside - No air bags on 88's and 89's. Before buying the 89 look or have someone else look at the ECU (computer) label. A pink label is bad with a #563 on the label. I think the good number to look for is #951. Check this post out more info....

http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1123117/220/240/260/280/89_93_lh_24_ecu_failures.html

88's have a reputation as being one of the best 240 model years. Maybe the best pre-air bag year, but 89's are good too if the computer (ECU) has been changed.

Thanks I'll check it out!

Hi Monique, I'll weigh in on years.

First, I have to say that 91 is our absolute hands-down favorite year. SRS (airbag) but no ABS. Not that I don't care for ABS, but it is an added complication. My experience is that the wheel sensors are prone to lots of "gunk" issues if you live in a wet, salty or muddy area. Of course when working, the ABS is a boon in the same wet, salty or muddy conditions!

93 has some issues that are specific to '93 cars. Some interior trim parts are 93-only. It also has the big, complex, fuse/relay block at the battery. Again, I've had experience with cars from wet states exhibiting electrical problems related to this assembly. '93 has the "pulsair" air injection system for emissions reasons. I've not found it problematic, but there is a large, rubber, three-connection hose at the front of the engine, related to the pulsair, that needs to be checked for breaks regularly when old. Just about everything else on a 93 is the same as a 91. No major reason a 93 would be less desirable other than these issues. I will say this: there seems always to be a lot of hype surrounding the "last year of this classic model", so prices are usually higher. Sometimes by a huge amount. 93 engines are "squirter blocks", with internal oil sprays to cool the underside of the pistons. Desirable feature.

LH3.1 is a forty-nine state injection system for stick shift cars only. 91 is the first year. In California the stick shift cars have LH2.4 injection and EGR (exhaust gas recirculation--for smog). Things like the air mass meter for the 3.1 are harder to find than an LH2.4 AMM. The EGR system, where fitted, needs to have its main valve and sometimes the solenoid control valve cleaned occasionally--a tough job on the main, not on the solenoid. Yes, 3.1 is tuned for better mileage. My 91 stick shift 245 will return a consistent 29.5 mpg in steady state highway driving and I've coaxed 30 out of it on flat stretches. I've seen people claim higher. 90 LH2.4 cars with stick, the best I've seen is 28.5.

LH2.4 is standard on all the 240s from 89 up, except the aforementioned 3.1 cars. It's a very reliable, reasonably economical system. However '88 is also considered an exceptional choice. Last year for the LH2.2 and the cars no longer had the biodegradable wiring harnesses for '88. Good economy, great performance, better wiring harness, and the B230 went back to heavier bottom end bearings in the engines. No ABS or SRS available in 88 cars.

SRS (airbag) first year is 1990. ABS is available in 91, but in SE cars only. ABS is standard in all 240s from 92 on.

Hope that helps.
DS

Thanks! This is great advice.

This is a great summary David. Matches my requirements almost exactly: no ABS.

I am more open to the 89-90 cars - MPG is less of a concern as I don't drive much - but a non-ABS M47 91 245 would be my car of choice. And I have one in the barn that I'm going to fix up soon for future use.
--
240s: 2 drivers + some parts cars

The only issue I ever had with the ABS on mine was that the fuse on the surge protector had blown, and some previous owner decided to pull the warning light in the cluster rather than fix it. 30 minutes with a multimeter and the Bentley manual and it was all back to normal. I've put about 40K miles on it (bought my '93 with ~110K on it) and never an issue. It almost never, ever actuates in normal use, even in the wet you have to be pretty ham-handed (footed?) to get it to actuate. But when it does, it works pretty well. I upgraded the front brakes to some 11.25" 960 rotors and Mazda RX-7 alu 4-piston calipers and the ABS still works perfectly.

I think the '93 model year had some fairly minor improvements, but as such, it is, by a slight margin, the best year. The R134 A/C system has some added capacity that makes it work a little better than an earlier system that has been converted. The engine is a slightly better version. Dunno if they changed the headlight plastics, but it seems like most of the 93's I've ever seen did not have the yellowed lenses of the older cars (still crystal clear on mine).

But all in all, nearly 20 years on, the variables on previous use/abuse, maintenance, quality of replacement parts, where it was stored, where and when it was driven, etc, all play a larger role in what condition it currently is.

Now there are some years best avoided, namely the 86-89 years (more or less) with the bio-degradable engine harnesses, for example. And if you live in a rust prone locale, might be prudent to avoid the pre-89 cars - 89+ (or is that 88+?) cars seem to be rust proofed a lot better.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)

What is an engine harness? Is it something that can be replaced? Why would they make it biodegradable?

The engine harness is a group of wires that connects the electrical parts of the engine. In the mid-1980s, the 240s engine wiring had insulation that disintegrated which caused wires to touch things they weren't supposed to, leading to all kinds of electrical failures. (I've been a victim of this problem with two 240s, an '82 and '84.) I think Volvo designed the wires to degrade once the car was chucked in a landfill, but either the cars stayed on the road longer than Volvo thought, or the wires degraded faster than intended. The wiring can be replaced, as mine was with my '84, but it's costly.

I believe that this was an issue with 240s from 1982 to 1987...someone correct me if I'm wrong.
--
Mike F - 1984 244 DL - 317,000 miles
Original engine, transmission, drive train, starter
Undergoing reconstructive surgery with POR-15

1972 142 S - The Yellow Brick - 135,000 miles
All stock except for Weber Carb. B20B engine. M40

Although the 93 has some nice features I wouldn't rule out the 91. A friend of mine owned a 93 that had one problem after another. Of course, this car may be the exception rather than the rule...:)

My experience/knowledge of 91 and 92's is that they have generally been good cars. Unless you prefer an older model (1988's have a good reputation), the 1991-93's are the way to go.

My Vote would be the 93 since there were running changes like squirter Block, roller tail shaft bearing, etc. I have a 91 that has 463,000 miles that uses no oil and has 187-190 PSI compression. Price and color Combo would be a bigger issue assuming they are in the same shape and no rust.

There are several threads here on "best year for 240".

I prefer a CPS car 89-up without ABS, I have an ABS car now that I'll be getting rid of ASAP.

Easy maintenance is my goal and so makes little sense to add a level of complexity to have something that doesn't work well.

Others here like ABS
--
240s: 2 drivers + some parts cars

This is affordable
http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/2776778520.html

Yes looks nice. What would it take to fix the thing he says isn't functioning to make it drive in the cold? Is it even worth it? Body looks good from the photo but wow the price is so cheap. Makes me wonder what is wrong with it.

The owner's claim that the coolant temp sensor is bad is dubious at best. This is a less than one shop hour job but if replacing it, you should have about 2-3 hours of additional work done for the breather box, all flame trap items, intake manifold gasket, cleaning the TB and IAC and replacing the heater hoses. All of this is routine maint but it is important.

The 1.5" lowering is unwise unless done very well and does not fit a "year-rounder" if you drive in snow deeper that 4-5".

The 1990 is a very good car but...

It most likely does not have ABS
It has the older style AC system
It will have the M47 I unless it has already been replaced

Great car for someone who does their own work...not a turn-key car to buy mid-winter in the snow belt.

Mike

Hi Monique,

I'd buy them both if I knew I could care for them. Both sound like a winner.

Sort of splitting hairs when comparing a 1991 and 1993 similarly (if not exactly) equipped models. While not exactly the same, you'll have a lot of redundancy and experiential transfer that eases the caring for each car.

You'd have four front strut assemblies to treat as you replace the front suspension bushings, shocks, brakes and brake fluid, belts, the front timing cover gasket and front engine seals. And so on. After around 500-1000$ each in parts as you'll perform the wear item replacement labor yourself. Don't forget good tires from a good tire store.

The joy is in caring and driving these two cars and noticing the differences and that you are not driving the newest drecky cars driven by hamsters. Elderberries.

No matter, as each 240 has nearly the same miles and is around twenty years on now, keep in mind you'll have a lot of wear item replacement so add these costs to your auto budget. The 1993 (Bosch k-jet 3.1), if the 1991 (k-jet 2.2 or 2.4) does not include EGR, will give a more spirited engine performance at greater fuel economy and lower emissions if each car is in good operating condition.

Consider condition issues like body rust and corrosion and appearance. When looking at each car, how does it look like it was treated? Can you perform an engine compression test? Can you or someone familiar with our beloved Volvo 240s inspect it for you?

Hope that helps.

cheers,

dud.
--
dud.

Hi thanks. Yes both are completely rust free. I have seen undercarriage and there is not a speck of rust on either car. Not a drop in the wheel wells, etc. From where I live this is amazing. I'm planning on keeping it this way once I decide. Wish I could get both but I have to sell my 240 sedan as it's rusted out, transmission mount rusted, no exhaust and lost clutch last week. I may keep it for parts. I am also selling my nice VW GTI because I can't keep it up. I bought the Volvo for $850 from a college kid 3 years ago as a winter beater and ended up loving it much more than the fancy, custom, super charged GTI. Since it wasn't perfect to start with and there was already lots of rust I can not keep it. I should get a nice sum for the GTI and plan to cut down to one nice 240 as a year round vehicle and try my best to keep it meticulous!

15 years of Volvo mechanics record come with the 1991, clean car fax and just waiting to speak to the guy who did all the service on it over the years. It has a 3.1 also which I'm happy about. Can't wait for it all to pan out and be a permanent Volvo owner forever. I love it that people keep these cars forever like the guy who asked if he should keep the one he's had for 27 years! Amazing!

I got advice from the Volvo shop I go to here and they are great as they know everything about these cars. They have given me the go ahead based on what the mechanic there says. If I can drive it back 1200 miles without incident I will the thrilled with the purchase. If routine maintenance is all I will need as you described above then I am ready. I expect maintenance as long as it is not anything major like a transmission, etc. Covering all my bases. Won't seal the deal unless it is right.

Thanks for all your advice. This board is filled with amazing knowledge and I appreciate the help!

Thanks! Monique

P.S. what is EGR?

Hi Monique,

Yeah, I concur with all these other RWD Volvo OvLov'in folks, the 1991 seems the best.

Yeah, exhaust gas recirculation. My 1991 has L-jet 2.4 with EGR and the thing was bought originally in Germany and has an exceptionally high compression engine.

Hope you max your value on your GTI sale.

If you could, however, have a second car while you perform wear items maintenance on the 1991 240. Unless already replaced at the mileage you indicate on that 1991 240, you'll have some work to do! That's the fun part.

What's even more of a delight is that you migrate away from another Europa-made brand, a VW, and migrate to an older car that is not so sprightly (though can be). On the bb you can read many articles about many folks that move away from BMWs, Mercedes, Audi, VW, and even Japanese and domestic brands for that 240, 700, 900/90 series, and owlder. Sort of warms my heart!

Now, if we can convince Volvo Cars AB to release the all new Volvo 240 line up for 2014, I'll be the happier.

Congrats, have fun, and you have the greatest resource ever here on the brickboard to get you through it all!

Happy Ruby Tuesday!

Cousin' Brucie (like the NYC ABC Radio deejay from the late 60s and 70s)
--
.sig

Thanks! I haven't checked the brickboard in a while! I'm still looking but hopefully will have a car very shortly. I'm afraid to sell my GTI but I would love another functioning Volvo! Thanks for your advice! I love Brickboard! :)

Cousin Bruce’s voice is still on the air. When I am in the shop, I listen to his show on Sirius channel six for sixties.

He is ok, as long as you do not pay him a lot of attention, all the time. I wonder if he was into Volvos. He has lasted a long time!

Phil

EGR=Exhaust Gas Recirculation
--
john

I am confused at why you have this dilemma. I thought you wanted to get a cheap 240 so you could drive it through the salt and save the other cars for the summer.

Appears that you found the dollar amount suitable, the inside and outside color is good on the older car. The ABS car would be a better choice if you drive crazy in the winter but the salt can raise issues with the maintenance of that.

My 91 car came with a sunroof and air bag. For me, the air bag is fine as long as I do not use it.
If it goes off it will mean two things, I have had a wreck, and they are very expensive to replace because it ruins the steering wheel horn pad splits! Passengers are SOL anyway.

Therefore, if you are bothered about the instrument cluster looks like. I would give a second thought about the moose, as an actual mileage-warning indicator, versus the car with a hopefully honest mechanic records. Thoughts made among those will dump the resale value, as bad as dented fenders, doors and what damage I cannot see. That is for me anyway.

AS far as the A/C units, this is a wash. I still R-12, which is obsolete except I still a good stash of it. Those that have converted to 134a are in for some bad news.
In 2013, they will no longer be manufacturing new cars with it from Europe. I read Wisconsin has already band it this year for sell over the counter and other states are expected to jump on the wagon. To many people not fixing their leaks so no dump it in and go!

The claim is 134a acts like CO2 and is bad for the environment! I heard that about R-12 and the ozone 25 years ago. The new 1234 stuff affects the planet by only like one percent by volume.

As far as the engine, I think the 93 has oil squirt ports below the pistons that is suppose to reduce the normal noise of piston slap which most poster seem to disregard on the 91’s anyway. If the engine management system is a LH 3.1, I understand, only from the board, that is more expensive to repair and fussy to keep it purring.

Just some things to consider, I vote for the 91.

Phil

I have 3.1 in my 1990 245 and get great mileage and never had any issue with it. The 1991 245 should/might have the 3.1 The 1991 should have it but the 1993 shouldn't as Volvo canned it in 1992. Check the VIN's. The 3.1's have 82 in them and the 2.4's have 88. If the 1991 has 3.1 I would consider it a plus.

Sweet! I just checked and indeed the 91 has a #82 in it! Hooray that sounds awesome that it has a 3.1L. The 93 has an 83? What does that mean? thanks for your advice. All signs right now are pointing to the 91. I'm just waiting for a few more photos and a Volvo mechanic's ok and I think I will be decided. thanks for your advice and input!

Phil, this is fantastic to know. I'm leaning toward the 91 for several reasons now and I like your answers. No idea about the air conditioning. As long as it works I will be happy. I assume it can be fixed if it doesn't work later or it breaks? He said it blowed ice cold.

I don't plan to keep my other car (custom VW GTI). It's too expensive for me to upkeep. I plan to sell it and have only one car that I drive year round which will be the dilemma car. It doesn't have to be mint condition just rust free and decent interior and workings to get me places. I can then spend my own money making it how i want. It's not going to be a show car but a really nice one I will upkeep. Even in the snow I will make sure to wash it often and have my body guy check it for any rust at the end of each winter and fix it. I plan to keep it as rust free as I can. This will be my main car from now on. Hence the decision.

The car fax on both are clean and odometers are near the 220k mark on each so no worries on the tampering. Also both odometers work as well. Both guys gave me their mechanics phone numbers and I'll be calling both tomorrow.

The warning your message here gave me was what I saw in a recent photo the 93 guy sent me. There is a split in the center of the steering wheel which indicates to me from what you've said that the airbag has gone off. I don't like that at all. He did say he had a front fender bender and there is a crease in the fender but not a big one. Still that part I don't like. And the yellow dash moose tach and speedo are UGLY! Aesthetics are still important if I'm looking it in the face constantly.

The 91 is fully original, nice blue interior which I like and what my current 240 is and looks fantastic. 15 years of mechanics records/receipts since the car was almost new. one owner family. Well cared for, no rust. Maybe it is a simple decision afterall.

Thanks for your response. It really helped! I will let you know what happens! And then I will brag about my new rust free car I got for cheap. haha

With respect to your comment on the split in the steing wheel, I had a 92 244 which did have a small split in the wheel cover though the bag had certainly not gone off. I would only add that it isnt inconceivable that there is a tear in the cover with an unused bag underneath.

Zach
88 244, 90 245, 92 245

Yes I spoke to the seller and it sounds like this is indeed the case. Thanks for clarifying. I think I may most likely go with the other of my two choices but not solely because of this. Thanks!

There are 2 versions of the M47 5 Speed. If you have the choice get the M-47II which would def be in the '93. but could also be in the '91.


The M47 Type I vs. Type II are different in the placement of the oil fill port on the side of the trans, Type II is slightly higher and can hold more fluid. and Type II has a redesigned 5th gear housing with tapered roller bearling in the main & 5th gear housing, wher type I has straight roller bearings, as a result the Type II is a stronger transmission.

Thanks. This is great to know. I will put it on my list of questions to ask tomorrow.

They are basically the same car, but the 93 is higher on the 240 evolutionary chain. The AC would be better than the 91 unless it was upgraded somewhere along the way.

The 91 may have ABS brakes as an option in 91 where the 93 does.

93 would have an airbag, the 91 does not.

THe 93 might have better insulation and therefore less road noise than the 91.

The important thing would be how well each was maintained and what you may need to do to them to get in excellent driving condition.
Dan

The 91 has an airbag.

All 240's 90+ have airbags...:)

I own 4 1991 240 without airbags .
--
Rene

Difference between Canadian and US Spec?

Must be. All U.S. 240's 1990 and up have them. My 1990 did.

That's strange.

Thanks! They have both apparently been maintained excellently and could be driven across the country today. oil changed every 3k miles on the 93. the 91 has 15 years of service by a top notch mechanic --a one owner car. both fantastic condition. I do not really like the color of the 93 interior. can I change the entire color including the carpet? I mean is it possible to do if I had a restorer do it? Like changing out the door and trim panels and seats and carpets etc? Also the 93 has a small crunch in the front fender and the 91 is mint--never a crash.

Interiors could be changed but not sure if it is worth the expense and effort. I have 2 of each year and they are virtually the same.
Dan

Sounds great! thanks for the advice. The dashboard on one also has an ugly yellow tach, speedometer and heat gauge with a moose on it. It seems it's been added. What is up with that? It's so stark and I think it's ugly. I prefer the natural look of the original dash.

Are you talking about this?
http://www.davebarton.com/style3-yellowface-lores.jpg

http://www.davebarton.com/WhiteFaceGauges.html

I think thats kind of cool. But if someone did this to their cluster their cluster probably works well. If you could score a regular cluster you might be able to sell that one.

Yes, those are the ones. They are ugly. I didn't get that car so no need to worry. I think the stock look is so much nicer! :)

ABS was optional in 1991 so if the 1991 has it then their pretty similiar. The 1993 was the only year were the AC came from the factory with r134A. All else being equal I'd go with the 1993. The AC is better along with some minor improvements such as a hood blanket and HD timing belt, etc. Personally I perfer the non ABS brake system.

Thanks! They have both apparently been maintained excellently and could be driven across the country today. oil changed every 3k miles on the 93. the 91 has 15 years of service by a top notch mechanic --a one owner car. both fantastic condition. I do not really like the color of the 93 interior. can I change the entire color including the carpet? I mean is it possible to do if I had a restorer do it? Like changing out the door and trim panels and seats and carpets etc? Also the 93 has a small crunch in the front fender and the 91 is mint--never a crash.

I hauled a complete 245 out of a junk yard in a wheel barrel 1/2 mile for an interior swap. Not for the faint of heart and I don't think I'd recommend it especially if your paying for the labor. Changing out a fender is a lot less work. Both sound good and I don't think either would be a bad choice. Check underneath each for rust and also consider that.

That's awesome! Sounds like something I would probably do! My current 240 is the color I want so may have an option there though it is not perfect and a different year. The bumper fender bender is on the interior color I don't like. Absolutely NO RUST on the underside. Not even one speck. I'm amazed at how immaculate the cars are but then again they are in a climate without rust!