posted by
someone claiming to be lynn
on
Tue Dec 20 14:32 CST 2011 [ RELATED]
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HELP!!! No one can decide what is making this sound. Only in winter, cold weather when I start out..not consistent..the other day did it once it was warmed up. also for the first time, black smoke started coming in by the emergency brake handle area...of course I pulled right over and had it towed in. Emergency brake shoes, cables, o.k. and they checked and can't see anything wrong. Sounds like driver side rear?? We narrowed it down to the rear wheel bearing that is in the rear axel that has to be pressed in. Thei only happens in the very cold weather, never hear it in spring or summer. Help!! don't want to put money in unless I know for sure, but we can't come up with anything....please if anyone has ever had this sound...loud grinding in cold weather from the rear, thanks, lynn at chmtnbliss@cs.com
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1. Carrier bearing: drop support, pry out shield, clean and regrease. If you don't like that approach as a permanent fix, use it test the brearing - and a visual inspection will tell you a lot.
2. Do you use your emergency brake? Stop using it for a while and see if you still have the noise. You may have broken shoes pads; binding shoes but i'd bet on the carrier bearing.
What does the "they checked" that you wrote mean? They looked at it; or they pulled the rotors; ...?
"grinding sound" is tough by itself. Have you searched the archives?
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
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Emergency brake shoes, cables, o.k. and they checked and can't see anything wrong. Sounds like driver side rear?? We narrowed it down to the rear wheel bearing that is in the rear axel that has to be pressed in.
Sorry, I'm not getting "driveshaft support bearing" from this. I'm getting rear axle bearing, which is what you narrowed it down to, in the driver's side rear, assuming "Emergency brake shoes, cables, o.k." means the rotor was pulled and the parking brakes were examined.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Black smoke in the Hand Brake area.
That's why I asked about Rubber smell ( I was thinking the carrier is heating up). No smell of rubber though.
It does beg the question about the E brake observation.
Was the Rotor removed???
Only on cold days.. brings me back to a bearing issue Rear axle or Center bearing.
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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You're right Tony. I was thinking the wheel bearing locked up, generated smoke by spinning its race in the axle tube, pressurizing the parking brake cable. But sending smoke through the cable sheath seems a little far-fetched, when the two grommets where the cables enter might offer a more likely path into the center console from the carrier bearing support donut below.
There couldn't be rust holes in a 93, could there??
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
I had no Monet to buy Degas to make the Van Gogh.
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posted by
someone claiming to be lynn
on
Wed Dec 21 17:13 CST 2011 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for all the input....mechanic who I really trust..know for almost 30 years...said it's going to need a new rear end...bearing can't even go in because of sometning called a trace..not surer what he meant but nothing to press into...it's all messed up. the car has been a good work horse..just passed the 400,000 mark.car doesn't need a thing, except this rear end...ever hear of this stuff?? thanks, lynn
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It must have been as Art stated, the outer race of the bearing has spun inside the tube that holds it. The mechanic is concerned that a new bearing, its outer “race”, not trace, will not press back in tight enough or its diameter is wallowed out of alignment to the center.
Most of the time they can you use a “Loctite” product called "Bearing Tight". They can center punch or knurl the inner diameter to make it smaller and use both methods together. We are only talking a few thousandths of an inch in most cases and the outer retainer “when shimmed correctly” helps “sandwich” the bearing too.
We are lucky that Volvo used actual unit bearings. Fords have used the axle as the inner bearing race for the balls. When they smoke, you may have to replace the complete axle too.
Considering the miles, an inspection inside the pumpkin and of the oil from the differential would be wise, even though the noise was the bearing. I think this bearing was on the driven side wheel. Depends on how long you drove it grinding.
The outer bearings are the weakest/cheapest link in the structure of the differential. They can suffer an early death if a brake caliper/parking brakes have ever dragged during its lifetime. This compromises the grease within them.
You could always find a lower mileage rear end unit. I am sure there are plenty to found and probably very reasonably priced. I would advise that on the next one, that you have their outer bearings serviced unless it is very low mileage with a decent warranty.
Phil
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Nice analysis, Phil. I had not thought about the parking brake as root cause.
I just wanted to post a warning message to the mechanic sourcing a used rear end, as so many times a "later" axle is installed only to find out the tone ring is wrong for the application.
However in this case, if the 1993 thread tag is accurate, no "later" year exists, and the mismatch problem going backward never occurs, because for some reason going with an earlier unit gets folks to check compatibility first. Anyway, the cutoff here is 92. 92 and 93 have the 48-hole tone rings needed for ABS, along with those 91's with the ABS option.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
People who live on that "New Car Smell" and have their Credit Score memorized better than their own birthday will ALWAYS say you're Crazy. -punk240 Tim
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http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage5.html
I'm with Leugim on this one.
Did the smoke smell like Rubber?
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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posted by
someone claiming to be lynn
on
Tue Dec 20 23:16 CST 2011 [ RELATED]
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smelled like friction not necessarily rubber..what do you think..is it the bearing that needs to be pressed in?
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Lyn,
I think I make some good points and Art makes good points.
The Hot smelling smoke in the Cab and the 'happens on cold days' is what is pointing me more toward the center bearing on the driveshaft.
Grinding that sounds like it's coming from one side ... Very common as these Bricks get older for the Pad material on the E-brake to fall off the metal shoe
and wedge and grind on the Drum surface of the Rotor. But that would happen on warm or cold days.
When the Rear brakes were looked at, did the mechanic know enough to pull the Rear rotor off and inspect the e-brake shoes?
Can you climb under and smell the center bearing for hot?
If you truly feel it's the rear axle area then I am wondering how smoke got up through the Trani Tunnel by your e-brake handle. Yet if the noise is absolutely coming from the back axle area..make sure to inspect the E-brake shoes behind teh Rotor.
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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posted by
someone claiming to be lynn
on
Wed Dec 21 17:24 CST 2011 [ RELATED]
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thanks for the help...they found that the rear end needs to be replaced because we can't even press in bearing because something called trace is messed up with too much play, etc. wish i knew better way to explain what was told to me..know this mechanic for 30 years and can trust him..never had this problem, but car does have 400,000 on her, but doesn't need a thing. what to do? told hime tio see if we can gwt a rear end from a junk yard
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I'm gonna guess it is the center support bearing for the drive shaft. They tend to whine when the weather gets cold. If it is grinding and smoking, it is toast and should be replaced. Cost, about $30 check ipd or FCP Groton, should be straightforward for a mechanic to do.
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Happy Motoring! '92 and 93' 240s past cars "74 140, '75 140, '86 240, '87 240 wagon, '02 S60.
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