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Below Art B comments on my mention of "poor designs" in 240s. Thinking about it, I probably need to separate "poor design" from "things I don't like".
Poor design to me is based on some formula that looks at longevity, ease of replacement, cost of replacement.
In that light, badly-engineered 240 items include IMO: heater blower, the inability to remove the shifter cover without pulling the knob (or cutting the cover in front, as I usually do), taillight ribbons, rear TABs, post-85 seat frames, the glovebox (too fragile for a 240), front cowl sealing and water drainage.
The shiftlock and the ABS are weak additions to the car - probably imposed on Volvo by NHTSA-driven legislation but not useful on older cars IMO.
============================================================
Shifter console wiring? 200 1993
- posted by Art Benstein on Wed Nov 30 13:52 EST 2011
... Hmmm. Whore's nightmare was probably viewed as an improvement over the previous two years, but I do understand the engineering criticism that essentially goes "anything not immediately understood by the shade tree repairman or replaceable in modular fashion after 20 years" is a "poor design." It is an outside view looking in through dirty windows on the ground floor, deserved or not. Remember the ads back then, "lasts 11 years in Sweden where many roads are not paved," or WTTE. The 93 was certainly an answer to some already noticed shortcomings, as evidenced by the radical shifter redesign and glovebox overhaul. That's quick response in the automotive industry.
- posted by jfh0jfh on Wed Nov 30 13:14 EST 2011
.... the shiftlock and the ABS are weak additions to the car. Poor designs right up there with the heater blower, the inability to remove the shifter cover without pulling the knob, taillight ribbons, rear TABs.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
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We are now pushing 60 240s that have been owned, and I've lost track of how many have been serviced that weren't owned. If someone had told me ten years ago that 240s would one day be paying the mortgage, I'd have laughed, but there sure are a lot of them to be saved. Oops. The wife says it's more than 60.
I've spent my entire adult life working on machinery of many different types. The minor inconveniences exhibited by the 240 in terms of maintenance and repair pale in comparison to some of the engineering, uhm, engineering--anomalies--that I have seen in commercial equipment of all types, from presses to chillers, to forklifts to high frequency generators. For those situations, it is up to the service personnel to devise practical solutions that utilize more modern (read: better) parts, more modern processes, more modern reasoning to improve the equipment. This applies to every industry that deals with every type of equipment. That's what technicians and engineers are paid to do, keep the equipment usable, practical, reliable, running. It's all about ROI. That can be the manufacturer's ROI in developing the unit, or the user's ROI in keeping it profitable and/or usable. As far as design and engineering ROI, I don't think any cost accountant could possibly complain about Volvo's design of the 240, even if the next group of engineers to review the design can. Likely the engineers don't complain either--they are too busy figuring out a better way to....anything.
Most of the things that people mention in discussing the 240's shortcomings have been solved by innovative people over the years. Some solutions are elegant, some are simply effective. I often find myself arguing about whether a solution is a good one based on whether or not it uses factory parts or procedures. Silly stuff. The point is to find a solution that fixes the problem and restores the functionality, hopefully to better than original performance, but at least to "original" levels of performance. For me, it's not about complaining about the cars' problems, it's about keeping the car running so it can be enjoyed. Finding a solution, whether it be to a clunking bushing or an impossible to remove part, is a challenge to be enjoyed, not a chore. I think those that continue to complain about the cars' shortcomings just haven't embraced what's available to solve their problem. Getting other enthusiasts to join in the hunt for the fix (as we do here)? Priceless.
I am eternally grateful to those on the board who have provided solutions over the years. For the conventional solutions yes, but even more so for the unconventional ones, because I think they represent innovation.
I have no complaints about the 240 worth mentioning.
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The one piece dash board - Left over from horse driven carriages?
If the dash were in two or three pieces, the instruments could be left in place when you have to change the blower motor or I have to change the evaporator on my 850.
Most other cars are just as bad. We never have to fix anything behind the dash do we?
--
'96 855R,'64 PV544 driver, '67 P1800 basket case, '95 855, '95 854, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 485,000 miles put on 9 bricks
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My first Volvo was a brand new 122S (amazon in the USA I think), the I had used ones also since: 1981, 1982, 1991. I still own the last two. Since then there was always at least one Volvo in the driveway plus GM Chevy and Pontiac at times. That makes me a Volvo owner for 45 years next fall and I do almost all mechanical repairs myself except clutch disk/pressure plate replacements. I have complaints also and I will list a few although these have been mentioned for the most part.
On the 1967, front fenders were corroded easily with road salt. I found too late that Maverick plastic fender liners could be adapted on that car.
The 240 : Had 2 heater blower replacement job, dashboards cracking on all the 240, water finding its way under the carpets, wiper shafts seisure, bad ground contact inside and outside wiper motor( no good reason for such a defect).
I still beleive that it is the ideal car for anyone who wants to put some time, effort and why not love, to maintain the mechanic and body in good shape. With our winters in the north east rustproofing is a must. Preventive maintenance is capital to make these car last this long because they were not designed for that.
As someone mentioned the money saved can be used for something else.
Good post.
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What bothers me most is the exhaust system's lack of longevity. But this is probably a common problem with other cars too. I suspect it may be because the exhaust system tends to be electrically isolated.
BTW, if you have an O2 sensor, it may help attaching a grounding wire to a muffler clamp to ensure better voltage transmission.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.
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Okay, the real design problem with the 240 series is that the station wagon could not carry a 4X8 sheet of plywood flat on the cargo area floor. What were they thinking ?! The other issue is that you can not load much 10 foot tubing or lumber and still shut the tailgate.
Name another car that will do as much with as liitle fuss. Maintenence is not always as easy as a Farmall letter series tractor, but it is close. There are so many cars on the road today that will be sitting in the junk yard long before my 245 because they are not worth the cost of repairs.
The other thing is that these cars are still 'sympathetic' to owner modification and improvement.
Greg
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I suppose every machine or contraption has it good and bad points. A preponderance of good design elements in a car or engine doesn't forgive the bad ones, especially if they are really bad.
The B27 PRV was a terrible engine, but it had a substantial crankshaft supported in a very rigid main bearing girdle - real race engine stuff. But....a lousy valve train, and odd-fire sequence, made it a loser.
I've owned lots of Volvos, and worked on lots of other brands and owned some of them too. If cars didn't break, I would have had trouble making a living.
Volvo engineering in many respects was world class - crash worthiness, body structure, seating ( important when you're large...) and seat belts. The ergonomics were damn near perfect. But then look at the aluminum bracket used to mount the Saginaw power steering pumps, with stupid bushings that slip around. Alternator mount too. Terrible vibrations throughout the car. Two piece drive shafts that vibrated even when new - my 79 GT did that from new. Poor wiring, and of course the dreaded heater motor that wasn't redesigned for what - fifteen years?
Great cars, but not perfect. After all, humans designed them.
Oh, and my buddy's Ferrari Daytona - can't shift that thing into second gear until it's been driven for about a half hour. Not up, not down, no second gear available. Normal for that transaxle. Unacceptable on the lowliest car today. But it's a Ferrari...go figure.
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I just notice how we love that Monday morning quarterbacking, especially when the Monday is 20 years down the road. Let's start a thread about what we do like about the cars we do like. Or have some experienced engineers comment on the design as they would in a current design review.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Optimist - half full, Pessimist - half empty, Engineer - The capacity is twice what it needs to be.
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My first experience with a Volvo had me impressed.
1975 242. my Girlfriend (currently my wife) had a Headlight bulb out. After scratching my head looking for the typical Hold in Screws, I was totally impressed that this Sealed Beam headlight came out without any tools needed.
I thought, how cool is that. Headlights are pretty important and Volvo thought it was a good idea to make them 'Side of the road' replaceable.
My first experience with Stationary mounted calipers had me scratching my head then giving a thumbs up on simplicity and functionality.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
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"My first experience with Stationary mounted calipers had me scratching my head then giving a thumbs up on simplicity and functionality."
Funny...my first experience with sliding calipers had me scratching my head. All my motorcycles before the my first 240 had been opposing piston and then I had 240's for abut 10 years. I worked on a lot of other Euro cars and few domestics but I never quite understood the appeal when the pins are such a common failure point...still don't get it.
Mike
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Same thing here, all my early experience with disc brakes was with the fixed caliper style (starting with my '63 122). When I saw the sliding variety it was just puzzling.
The advantage, of course, is that only one side of the caliper needs to have hydraulics, and usually just one single large piston at that. Which makes them cheaper. And, I guess, they can make the outboard portion of the caliper much smaller, since it's just a metal arm that reaches around to tug on the pads, so the wheel clearance issue is lessened.
But mostly, just simply the cost factor.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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Mike,
Its called replacing the pins, springs, and clips each time you replace the pads. $5 for the set, not a bad deal! At least they didn't use the floating caliper Jeep design with the phenolic pistons, add to that rotors that rust out and break, now that is a bad design!
jorrell
--
92 245 317K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently being enjoyed!
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With all due respect, I differ with you here:
1. I've driven these cars since the 80s which at least implies that I like/ respect them. In that light, there seems little much point in litanizing the good things I already know. OTOH, the failures are interesting eg. heater failures and time-consuming R&R in a Nordic car.
2. "Monday morning quarterbacking" is a bit denigrating. For me it's valid to look at what IMO are fails. Why wouldn't it be valid for a user to evaluate a product? It's why the car companies do so many clinics after the engineers are done.
3. It seems fair that a car built and marketed as the 240 was certainly should be designed with multiple decades of use in mind.
4. And in 20+ years of production & > 2.3 million sold, I see little room for failure in the later years.
5. I too would be interested in engineer comments on the car. But only in balance with professional mechanics and owners. Otherwise it would be the self-congratulatory atmosphere of trade-association banquets or Academy Awards.
Our perspectives on this are perhaps opposites: For me the 240 is a pantheon 80s-90s vehicle - despite or perhaps because of that some of the design problems seem egregious.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
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Football fans are loyal too, but it is part and parcel to fandom to stand on the sidelines and criticize what those getting the big bucks are paid to do. The analogy is valid, and so are your feelings. Without avid and critical fans, football would fail.
So go ahead and grouse about the heater the car was built around. Consider that the combination unit was done for us, yes US of A, who had early on become addicted to AC in the automobile. You'll have lots of company.
You'd design it differently, of course. With hindsight, a lot of things might have been different. There's no shame in Monday Morning Quarterbacking - it is an easy pastime for the masses. The few who actually call the plays and execute them care not. They know there's more to it than meets the instant replay, and shrug off the critics and listen to their coaches.
And, as far as differences of opinion go, like I said, the glass on the first floor looking in is filthy. It is a matter of perspective, and differences are expected. From a user or maintenance man perspective, I agree, they should have been designed to last forever, much like my 35-year-old Maytag, which has a fair chance of outlasting the Hubble.
Just my opinion...
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
But I'm not going over there.
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As far as the Maytag goes, Art, you might be disappointed when you try to get simple replacement parts (like, say, the mechanical timer assembly). The final straw in one of my client's Maytags from the 60's became the inavailability of parts. I think she needed a crane to get that old machine out of the basement.
--
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=53563&id=1189132524&l=75a2564d60
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There's a "brickboard" for automatic washers, and, would you believe, an enthusiast community who collect them! It is a great forum, but my participation there is like 90% of those who come here -- only when needed. Reading http://www.automaticwasher.org one finds they even have their PnP's scoped out.
My only contribution: http://cleanflametrap.com/maytag
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"To some it's a six-pack, to me it's a Support Group. Salvation in a can!" - Dave Howell
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I'm pretty excited that my girl is going over 2k in 125miles. I've never had a car roll-over 2 before. I have already put the camera in the car. I'll just say this, I was detailing the body with rubbing compound, then wax and I just thought that the paint job Volvo put on is top shelf, it looks like new.
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Art, I would've never known or thought such a website existed. Thanks for the entertainment.
As far as engineering Faux Pas, my most recent replacement of the IAC valve was frustrated by the thought that if Volvo just made the valve's hold down bracket bolt from the other side of the main bracket, r and r would be a simple matter of unscrewing two screws, instead of unbolting the whole bracket from the engine, having to support the engine underneath so the motor mount bolts could be removed, and so on. My knuckles are still bleeding from that one; however, all in all I think the car is an engineering and design masterpiece.
--
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=53563&id=1189132524&l=75a2564d60
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OK, site bookmarked!
With 180#'s of dogs...130#'s of them long-haired and double-coated...we put some significant strain on our laundry equipment washing all the furniture covers, sheets, etc.
When I am home, I have always been able to repair every dishwasher, washer and all but one dryer. I mostly troubleshoot by downloading parts schematics and following the current and water flow. Even when working in Iraq, I would disassemble and clean the coin trap and other known dog hair stoppage areas.
If Art is a contributor to an appliance repair board this will make my life much easier.
Mike
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Art
I am a retired mechanical engineer and hold a license as a master electrician.
That said, I've been driving Volvo's for over 40 years.
My deceased father (also a engineer) drove a Volvo for the last 20 years of his life.
We both had a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction working on and driving our Volvos because we knew good Engineering and quality when we saw it.
I can't point to anything specifically that I consider poor design on the Volvo's that I've owned.
On the other hand, I can point to many, many things that I consider good engineering.
I still say to anyone who will listen "Volvo's are the best car on the road".
As a recently retired "Baby Boomer" I can say with a fact that owning and driving Volvos, all of which I have paid cash for because I always bought the one with 100K+ plus miles....You know, the one that's worn out...ha...ha.,
I have saved a untold amount of money on transportation over the last 4 decades.
My friends were driving shiny new cars, and I was banking my money.
Of course, Volvos are not for everybody, like the people who cannot work on their own cars and have to have it towed to the dealer when the fuel pump relay stops functioning, etc.
Just had to blow a little steam.
I would say to anyone who complains about a Volvo being a poorly designed car,
Sell it, it's not for you.
A Volvo veteran
steve
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Gradual accretion of electrical parts scattered hither-and-thither, w/relays moving about under the dash and elsewhere according to mysterious influences. "Where should this new relay go? Wherever there's a plastic edge that'll take a clip! Need another ground? Just drill a hole nearby and squish down a ring lug..."
The 700 series started over, with the electrical system refactored, cleaned up; a more or less clean slate nicely implemented with centralized fuse and relay scheme which then gradually degenerated once again as feature creep continued.
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Greetings All,
GREAT thread about the swedish tractors! ( 240's)
I'm new to the brickboard so be kind. The blower motor....this is my nightmare!
I defer to Art, are there ANY other ways of replacing that beast? I have a 240 station wagon with a 5 speed, GREAT car. It has never let me down, well just once, broken timing belt. I have worked on the tail light harness that goes up through the hinge. It was a bit fiddley but no problem really. But the BLOWER...this sounds like a real nightmare. I'm a machinist so I'm used to working with my hands but..." 10-12 hours"!!!! YIKES.
Thanks
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As a current owner of 4-240's I can tell you that Volvos are not perfect, but pretty close to it!
If I had to change one thing about my 240's it would be the lack of horsepower that Volvo manufactured these cars with.
I do not own any turbo charged 240's so maybe that is the reason for my complaint!
--
1993 240, 1992 240GL, 1985 240DL Wagon, 1983 240DL
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$300, $400 in junkyard parts, plus a solid weekend of work, and you could have 160 - 170 hp.
Vrrooooomm!!!
Your challenge is, then, to remain content with that much. Otherwise you get stuck in a 'more-itis' syndrome. And madness lies in that direction...
I've never actually had a blower motor go out on me, so I can't really put that on my list of things I don't like. I do, however, use the blower somewhat sparingly, and usually on 1 if at all, maybe 2, never on 3 or 4. Will this make it last longer? I don't know, but sure hope so. The noise of the blower is another indication of how old the basic design of the car is, newer cars have that ducted, silenced, muffled blower thing going on, the 240 makes it sound like there's a blender just a couple of inches behind the vents.
Flow through sill ventilation was a great idea for the first 5 - 10 years of the car's life, then it turns into a liability. Volvo seems to have done this from the 122 on, and it caused the same problems on those cars too. Sudden sill rot syndrome. At least somewhere around the 88/89 model year, I think they started doing something different at the plant, and rust proofing got a lot better. The early and later 240's here where they salt the roads in the winter, the difference is pretty noticeable. Sills vs. no sills, mostly.
Interior plastics - as repeatedly mentioned - door pockets and center consoles. Thin, brittle, sigh.
The models with headlights that go off with the key seem to often suffer a 'no lights' issue when an overheated terminal on the relay in the center stack loses conductivity. I guess only after 10+ years of use, though. Can't complain *too* much.
ABS has been perfectly fine in my car. When I got it the PO had taken out the warning light, and they weren't working. But I did a diagnostic rundown on it (Bentley manual, multi meter and about an hour) and the only issues it turned up was a burnt out fuse on the surge protector (under the passenger seat) and the missing warning light. They've worked perfectly ever since. Almost never actuate unless the roads are really slimy, and work really well when they do actuate.
It's hard to fault the engine or drivetrain. Suspension is great too, solid 4 bar in the rear instead of the torque beam thing they went to no the 700 series. Very good brake system.
I guess the bio-degradable plastic headlights on late model US spec 240's is not great. Not sure if they changed the plastics late in production, but my Classic's headlights are still crystal clear, as have been the lights on pretty much every other 93 240.
Motor mounts on a 240 are pretty horrible, even sitting still the mounts are stretched and pulled, in a shear direction. And if you add much HP to the motor, they start tearing out easily. 700's moved the mounts out wider and latter, they're much easier on them.
I've had to switch tailgate wiring on mine, common issue. Add to that the bulb-out indicator, although I'd have to lump that in with the blower motor, I haven't actually had any issues with it on mine.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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There is much more that well engineered for ease of maintenance on the 240 than any other car I have experienced.
Dan
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I drive my 37 year old Volvo almost daily. It still keeps up with other cars at 70mph on the freeway, it crawls in traffic jams without overheating, it has a smaller turning radius than most newer cars, the air conditioning works, the motor is as smooth as a sewing machine, and the gears engage without a hint of grinding. And its more reliable and requires less maintainance than some of the newer cars I have owned. Good engineering? Absolutely! Did i mention comfortable seats for my 6'3" 200 pound frame for cross country trips?
--
1974 144GL, 1996 940 GL LPT
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I agree. I've had Volvos just over 40 years now - a bit longer if you count my failed 544 HS V8 project.
I think of the less-than-ideal engineering aspects of the car as foibles. And in that vein I wonder how they happened: engineering mistakes, compromises, or (most likely IME) cost-driven decisions.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
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Wow. 40 years of Volvos! I tip my hat to you.
With that sort of loyalty, any critique is meant constructively, without a doubt. A late friend of mine also failed to wedge a V8 into a PV. He left me all his research, PV source book, and JTR manual. I think he said the unibody or lack of frame was his stumbling block.
Your thread in response to my devil's advocation for the engineering profession might elicit some very helpful thoughts if it were not for the emotional responses many of us "fans" have. Just in case we want to look at this issue of "Things we don't like" from two perspectives, calmly and without sounding like complainers, let me keep the thread going:
To expand on the storage battery model and illustrate two perspectives of design quality, consider that a "poor design" has a different meaning for the car manufacturer from that defined by the car enthusiast: To the car manufacturer, an example of poor design would be an engineering decision resulting in loss of potential profit, such as an engine wiring harness that tends to need replacement before the warranty ends. Or a supplier's custom hybrid fuel controller chip randomly succumbs to dv/dt excursions commonly present in the automotive electrical environment -- reducing goodwill by harming the reputation for reliability.
These poor design issues cost money and result in retrofits and/or redesigns. Engineers work at the pleasure of the manufacturer, not for the end users. In other words, they would all like to design outhouses made from brick, but could not find much work doing that. (I still wonder at the force behind Volvo's pursuit of a second source for engine management in the Rex/Regina from Bendix.)
Now from our perspective -- yes, yours and mine, as enthusiasts,
A) The interior plastic was poorly formulated. Especially that beige. And the white things on the headliners.
B) The un-screened "flow through" ventilation collects a compost pile in the rocker panels -- poor design left us no easy maintenance path. No vendor here -- this is Volvo! (This is my personal #1)
C) The cost saving flexible circuit in the Cibie sedan tail lights neglected the heating effects of oxidized dissimilar-metal pressure contacts backed up by thermoplastic. They didn't predict the amount of moisture that enters from cracks in and poor welds on the lenses.
D) VDO made their electronic speedometer gears from 200K plastic that turns to rubber.
E) Aisin left their AW's 4th gear solenoid exposed to our road salt.
F) Volvo put their alternator on the wrong side of the red block long before the days of electric fans and 1000W aftermarket stereos.
G) Bosch provided us with the pink-label LH2.4 (hybrid's pump relay driver mentioned above)
H) Who gave us the Eurofuse?? Can't believe that was Bosch!
Surely I've missed some good ones. What can you add?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry
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These may be elsewhere, allow me to add a few of my favorites to your concise, and may I say well taken, list:
o Mid-80s engine wire harness disintegrating insulation, but that's just a short story.
o More rust, especially with the early half of 240 production. Rust was a big bugaboo for me at the time, but perhaps I was overly sensitive after all the rust I suffered on my 140, especially as it enjoyed covered parking most of its life. Toyota and Honda had dealt with their rust-bucket issues long before Volvo got their head even half wrapped around the problem. To add to your rocker panels (I agree) there's the seams along the door bottoms if you didn't likewise clear the debris from the door drains and, last but not least, the rear storage wells. Some days it also seemed the early rear mud flaps were held on more by mud than metal. Can you say wheel well fender lip four times?
o How about wagon tailgate wiring harness breaks? They had that problem right from day one of the 140s to the end of the 240s and all they had to do was bring the wiring out of the hinge and through a flex tube like everyone else. There was no excuse for that.
o The fuel pump relays that I truly believe were rated lower than the fuse trying to protect them. I suppose on the drawing board they coped fairly well with a virgin pump, but as the pump wore and started drawing a lot more amps, they should not overheat to the point the solder joints fail.
o Oh, and don't forget the infamous 20 amp fuse holder on the fender exposed to all the elements under the hood. I can't imagine it costing the factory anything more than an extra $1 to use a marine grade holder or moving them under the dash. And they just kept using them like they had a 100 year supply of the things.
o Then there were the seat heaters that didn't, but maybe that's more a Great White North issue.
BTW I avoided the Euro fuse issue by switching to the Buss glass ones, although it's more difficult to tell when they were blown. But try to find them now.
My real #1 gripe, I was always dismayed that during the 25+ years of 140/240 production they couldn't whittle down the list of on-going problems a bit faster and in some cases even at all. Struck me they drew straws the day after the first 240 hit the streets. One cross-eyed engineer and one junior Bosch tech rep pulled the short straws and had to stay behind while the rest got to join the 700 design team.
All in all, and I speak only of the RWDs as that's all I care about, Volvo got a well earned reputation for a practical, safe and affordable automobile. Give or take the odd screw-up like the early PRV, when you talk reliability and design quality, you have to remember to keep it in the context of the day and the years of use. How many beasts of comparable vintage have been kept on the road for so long and by such a loyal group of owners of all ages and backgrounds? Let them call us a fringe group if they must, just never a cult.
I don't know if I should admit to my own 40+ years of owning only Volvos. As my sig line used to say, you'd think I'd have learned by now.
--
Dave -940's, prev 740/240/140/120 How time flies when you're having fun
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I got a PV544 with a blown motor in 1965/ 66. $10 maybe; or free. I'd helped a friend put a Chevy V8 in a 46 Ford. His dad did the serious work; we handed him wrenches and told the guys at school we were doing this V8 conversion ....
The 544 looks like a miniature 46 Ford (I've heard stories that Ford sold the design and maybe molds to Volvo) and so we thought "what if ...". I think I got the 544 motor out and looked at the 265 Chevy V8 on the floor next to it and went on to something else.
I don't think we really grasped what a unibody was - even though my mother had a Rambler we'd done a clutch on. Anyway. my mother sold my car projects after I went into the service and the motorless 544 was probably crushed.
A few years ago I had a chance to buy a 544 - a car I really like - and also knew of a Rover/ Buick aluminum V8 and thought that might be a good project. But I wouldn't be able to butcher a good 544 and there'd be no point in working on a junk one.
If I did a project like that a V8 245 would probably make the most sense. But I'm not sure I have that much interest in it.
And I don't want to mislead: while I've had Volvos since then, there were times when we didn't have one eg. when I had a company car and my wife needed a van; when I was driving a lot and trading cars every year or so - and couldn't justify the depreciation hit.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
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Absolutely Art, there isn't a smidgen of RWD Volvo (only kind I've owned) bashing in this. It was more "We appreciate these cars. Since Volvo did so many things right, why ...?" I expect to find bad designs on Italian cars (I have a couple of Alfas). But Volvos were so well done I'm amazed when I find something goofy.
No desire to sound like a 240 complainer. Perhaps it's a bit like defending/ supporting your kids when you're out but at home w/ your spouse (here within the 240 family) ...
Art: "Engineers work at the pleasure of the manufacturer" Yes, absolutely. I should have been clearer. When I say "engineering" I mean the the final manufactured product which includes engineering, production, finance, marketing, sales, and customer input; and government directives; etc.
I worked at a US auto company in Detroit in the late-70s. When the product failed, it wasn't for laziness/ sloppiness/ etc. When friends would b*tch about one of our failures, I'd sometimes take them through our engineering center and defy them to find an area where the engineers weren't trying.
Net: at the time an auto plant cost $1 billion and you were finalizing product decisions 3-4 years ahead of time. It's a tough business and I have the most respect for those who do it.
Your list is excellent - more comprehensive than mine. My comments (using your letters) begin "[" on it - your list below. My list:
I. The heater blower is my #. I don't mind that they fail so often, but replacement should be easier. And it's a critical safety issue - defroster for winter driving ...
II. I seem to fool w/ shifters often and removing the knob can be destructive. They could have made the cover with an overlapping joint in front.
III. Post-85 seat-backs fail too easily in a car designed for 500K miles.
IV. the glovebox is weak - fragile hinges, panel separation - but you cover that A) Plastic.
V. Rear-axle swaps are harder than they need to be but how often does one do that?
Art's list:
A) interior plastic [I agree but this doesn't bother me. It's odd that things would break so easily but it's just ugliness, not impaired function - except for the glove box.
B) The un-screened ventilation compost pile [This is probably my number one also as it rots the floor. I'm going to tackle one today in fact - pull the interior, carpets, vacuum ....
C) flexible circuit in the Cibie sedan [an annoyance.
D) speedometer gears [yes, strange in a car where you could get 200K, 500K badges.
E) 4th gear solenoid exposed road salt [yes, a strange oversight. I'd meant to include this in my list but as it's an easy fix ...
F) alternator on the wrong side [Probably "we can't do any major redesigns on a car we're phasing out".
G) pink-label LH2.4 [and the factory CPS unit
H) Who gave us the Eurofuse?? [another annoyance
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240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
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the buzzing, vibrating interior dash assembly.
seems worse. I went from four 240s from 1975 to 1979. the three 1990, 91, and 92 models all have buzzes and harmonics and rattling of this and that no matter how many times you dissemble the dash, to um:
- replace the blower motor
- seek and find all the little vacuum lines that loosen up on the three switch vacuum charged flappy air vent controller doo-hickey thingy.
- replace the radio, replace the radio again, and again.
- replace the burned out dash bulbs even though you installed new or used bulbs from the salvage yard.
I have the strut tower to firewall GT brace bars from my (now RIP) 1979 242 GT in my now 1991 grey 240 sedan. The braces transfer vibration to the firewall, so the dash and all may vibrate in weird harmonics at various speeds and engine RPMs.
I pulled the dash out, cleaned all, and pressed in poron foam adhesive tape on the bulkhead just under the windshield. That halted the dash cap from vibrating, yet created another vibration at weird RPMs and 240 velocities. The no good nik gang of four relays just below and between the two center dash HVAC vents. I have rolls and rolls of neoprene adhesive tape and hope this go around makes it a quiet(er) ride.
The funky dash and interior harmonics drive me crazy.
And hopefully the big fresh air inlet flap remains open when climbing WA-state SR-20 when climbing up the Cascades mountains. (SR = state route)
Should I mention being stupid and installing URO/APA parts before we all knew these were junk. Oh, I'm paying for that. The forward trailing arm bushes are torn around the center metal tube. Discovered this while replacing two year old hangers two dayze ago that came with the Starla cat-back N/A exhaust from IPD. The OEM Volvo hangers are like new.
Happy Friday everybody!!!!! Each and everyone!!!!!
Brooooo-seeeeeeee
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You LOVE you RWD Volvo!!!! Love it, Love it, OH You BETTER love it!!!!!
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