Hi guys,

Volvo 240 '92

I've got this sound that happens only when I accelerate the car. When it's cruising, no sound. When it's enough gas to just keep the speed, no sound. When it's in neutral, and I gas I get it for a second, then it stops. When I gas it, loud, consistent noise. Sounds like a lawn mower or a tractor or something like that. Like a harley . . . ?

Again, I've searched around but I've had a hard time pin pointing the type of noise I'm hearing. I don't think it sounds like a "ping;" it sounds more like a lawn mower. I hear it coming from the hood when I'm driving, and if I have the window's down, then I can hear it reflecting back from Interstate walls for example.

I drove it from Upstate NY to DC with this condition, so it doesn't seem like an acute issue. Kind of like a muffler problem or something?

Anyway: Can I check the computer to pinpoint it? I've looked at the Haynes book and can't quite see the exact problem.

Any thoughts?

Digg

I had the same issue with my '88 240 and with my LR Discovery II - if you think the Volvo sounded like a tractor, the LR sounded like a tractor pull event. I had gaskets and some various welding on the Rover for about $250.00 at a small local shop in Springfield, TN (pop. 16,000) last year.

Seems like I had gaskets put on the Volvo at a good Euro-repair shop in Nashville about ten years ago for $200. $400.00 probably isn't too out of line in a bigger city, but I don't blame you for being upset. Threats of small claims court or a really nasty letter from your lawyer may help them find their wallets and their perspective.

Final Update:

I went to pick up the car today, and here's the break down:


1) Gasket 40.04
2) Accessories 4.13
3) Labor = 3.3 hrs = 372.40
4) 416.57
5)Tax = 25
6) 441.57

My guy in Athens, GA would be 200.

So DC = 241.57 more than Athens, GA one man shop.

Fair enough, perhaps?

But again, what gets my goat, is that I couldn't have fixed the down header pipe because it had been welded to the Catalytic Converter, but I COULD have replaced the gasket myself, and they didn't give me that option because they just went ahead and fixed it.

And, at over 100 dollars an hour. I need to become a mechanic.

Thanks for all the help.

Keep in mind that at least half of that rate is overhead...the building, the utilities, insurance (including workman's comp), office management, book-keeping, and so-on. Trust me, if you work for a decent sized company in an facility that they supply you are probably costing your employer at least double your gross pay. If you are contacted out (client supplies a roof, office chair, drinking water and air conditioning) the multiplier is usually about 1.6-1.8.

Home much difference is there in real estate prices between the two places?

Not belittling the fact that in excess of $100/hour is a lot of money just trying to put it in perspective. I am a hired gun for private and government contracts. I have seen my billable rate as high as 2.2 times my salary when the contracting company was not allowed to bill for their timekeepers, office staff and management...and that was with me working at the client's site so you know there was either a lot of profit in that number or a large chunk of "non-productive labor" supported by my billable hours.

So my suggestion is to not use that shop in the future or specify exactly what is authorized on the work order after crossing out and initialing their boiler-plate that usually resides either at the bottom of the WO form or on the back. Make sure your copy matches their copy. That act alone will make either pause and take you seriously or tell you politely to take your business elsewhere.

Mike

After reading the posts up to now, I agree that the chances are that you have a leak at the point where the exhaust manifold is connected to the header pipe. BTDT.

Why the noise only when accelerating? My guess is that the engine, which will normally move a little side-to-side on acceleration, moves just enough to open a crack which otherwise stays closed. You should check the condition of the right motor mount, too. Weak mount allows more engine movement.

Cold engine, use hand to feel around where the manifold bolts to the header pipe. Have a helper in the cabin, car in Park, rev the engine and feel and listen.

Not a complicated repair, just a PITA. New Volvo (or equal quality) gasket, proper fitting wrench (use a 6-point socket if possible), a use P'Blaster to soak the nuts. Let it soak in a good while, those nuts get hot, rust and are not easy to remove.

Before all that, be sure to look about at the other locations for the leak.

Dunno about using any sealer. There might be an exhaust sealer that could help. Ask the other posters about that.

Good Luck,

Bob

:>)

My guess would be exhaust manifold leak.

RonJ

Thanks. I'll search around the board and Haynes to learn about that. In the meantime, it's ok to continue driving the vehicle, right?

Agreed, sounds like an exhaust leak near the manifold, perhaps a cracked downpipe or rusted through cat? Yes, it is safe to continue driving assuming that is the problem. Just don't sit idling for long periods or you may wind up woozy from the carbon monoxide. (I'm kidding - but only mostly).

I've also had loose exhaust heat shields sound a bit like this.

Thanks! I think you are correct because I did get a bit woozy driving the other day when I got into town.

Here's a follow up:

1) Is there a way to eye ball whether it's an exhaust manifold leak or whether it's a crack somewhere else?


Once I figure this out, then I can move on to the follow ups for the Exhaust Manifold Issue.

Thanks again.

Get under the hood and then under the car and eyeball it for leaks. If you have the engine running, you'll be able to hear and feel the leak (if it turns out to be a leak). Feel around where the exhaust manifold meets the downpipe, and then where the downpipe meets the catalytic converter. You may be able to see a rust hole in a pipe somewhere that will tip you off. When the car is cool, check to see if you've somehow lost an exhaust manifold nut or stud and don't have a good seal.

As always, take prudent safety precautions when climbing under a running car. Never use the supplied scissor jack as the main support when working under the car - that is meant to get you through a tire change on the side of the road and little else. Use ramps if available, be sure to chock the back wheels if they are still on the ground, use jackstands on the jacking points if you don't have a lift or ramps available. Etc, etc...

Good luck,
Zach
'88 244 '90 245 '92 245

Awesome! Thanks. Let's say that it turns out to be the exhaust manifold.

Here's a couple of questions for the board. Some have suggested finding where the leak is, but it seems to me that it doesn't really matter, right? Because you have to remove the entire manifold . . . containing all four pipes right?

Secondly: What kind of tool can tell you 23 lbs for the proper re bolting?

Thirdly: Those gaskets. How do you hold all four in place simultaneously? Haynes just says clean the area and replace them, so I'm guessing it must be obvious, but I'd hate to get in there and run into this problem.

Thanks!

Thanks for all your help. It is indeed the headerpipe. I can't find a leak because it's coming from within the heatsheild.

Mine's an EGR, so I guess I've gotta find a headerpipe online for that type.

Thanks for all the help.

I'll dig around to see how to replace the pipe.

It can't be welded?
Your exhaust gasket will rest on the studs in the head as you refit the manifold.
Second endorsement for the Sears 3/8" beam-type torque wrench. It will do for most home repairs. It's a good idea to recheck the exhaust flange nuts after a few heating and cooling cycles.

Bob
66S

Turns out that the previous owner had welded the header pipe to the catalytic converter, so I couldn't separate the two. I took it to the shop because the repair exceeded my pay grade as it were.

They said, well, we'll have to replace the converter, too, and I said, well, I guess we'll have to do so. Since it had been welded.

However, they got in there and are now saying it was a leak in the Exhaust Manifold after all.

They went ahead a fixed that without asking me first (because I wanted to fix that myself, and I think I can).

So, they are charging me 430.00 to replace the gaskets on the exhaust manifold.

That seems absurd. I could understand with labor paying 200 for this, but 400? Assuming they don't have to replace any of the bolts/studs?

Thoughts?

What is their billed hourly rate? If you are in DC and it is a Volvo Dealer, I would be it is over $100/hour to cover overhead. When you add taxes and parts (with dealer mark-up) $400+ starts to make more sense. My guess is that this is not a job done by book rates because of the inherent risk of removing nuts from 20 year old studs in the hottest area of the engine.

Either way, you are kind of stuck at this point unless you want to go through the uncomfortable process of forcing litigation...even if it is in small claims court. What had you authorized them to do and how did you authorize the work. Trust me, for this amount of money, the fight is NOT worth it. I fought that fight once for $600 and pride...I kept my $600 but it ended that no one was a winner.

Mike

Thanks for the reply:

It's a local non-dealer place in DC. They quoted 400 (including 250 for the part) for replacing a header pipe.

I had authorized them to order a new header pipe and replace the converter.

But he called me today to tell me they'd fixed the problem, but it was a Exhaust Manifold Leak, which makes sense because I was getting dizzy driving the thing!

So, I thought, oh great! Don't have to pay for the new header pipe (250 bucks for EGR) and a new converter etc.

But when he told me 430 something, I was quite surprised, because A) I didn't authorize that work (I would've done it myself) and B) The only new part are some gaskets and maybe some new studs/bolts.

He said: well, we have to take the manifold off.

I dunno. I asked my very trustworthy Volvo guy in Athens, GA, Garry Cummings, and he said he charges 200, but he works for himself out of his own shop. Garry said that it might be more if those old studs broke and he had to replace them.

So twice the amount for DC/Athens, GA seems a little much.

Even one broken stud is going to add 30-45 minutes to the repair.

100% increase from DC to Athens, GA, small one-man shop to a shop with higher overhead and taxes that make Southerners cry...not so hard to believe for me.

As a corollary...our vet bills tripled for the same services moving from Tulsa, OK (pop 300K) to Hammond, IN (pop 60-80K) all because of our proximity to Chicago...oh, and the fact that our Tulsa Vet was way under pricing himself.

The one thing that bothers me is that they did not clear the repairs with you first. Be careful what you sign at smaller shops because I am pretty sure you will find that you authorized them to do necessary work to make the vehicle safe.

Mike

When the engine is cool start it and run your hands close to the joints / gaskets or pipes feeling for the leaking exhaust. Do it quickly as the exhaust system heats up fast.
Dan

Hi,

Check the area where the header pipe is attached to the support coming off the transmission. I had a header pipe leak (small rusted hole-which sounded like a big hole) right where the two pipes at the front of the header pipe joins. It had been on the top side so you couldn't see the hole in the header pipe until it was disconnected-but you could hear where it was coming from.

Also it might help if you get part way under the car at midpoint, have someone start your car and have them hold a rag over the end of the tailpipe for a few seconds. It should help you locate where the sound is coming from if it is the exhaust.

And if it is the exhaust manifold leaking, you want to remove the header pipe from the exhaust manifold (3 nuts) then work with the exhaust manifold.

Torque wrench-you can get a Craftsman "beam type" 3/8" drive torque wrench from Sears for around $20 that is cheap and reliable.

Travis

1) It is far less likely to be the exhaust manifold than the header pipe. Find the leak first. It still might not be a leak; heat shields rattling can make similar sounds.

2) Torque wrench. You need one.

3) The gasket will sit on the studs to which the manifold bolts.