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I'm looking for any information the generous people of this community may have for me as I want to know if I am getting in over my head or not.
I am currently in school and will be going back in a month for autobody collision and bought myself a project car that I'm not certain they will accept as its more restoration than fixing dents/etc, plus I don't have the money to do a complete 100% restro like I'd like.
I bought myself a 1966 Volvo Amazon 220, B18(B or D?, does it matter?) manual 4 speed for $800US. It came with a parts car which is a sedan that I do not have yet but believe that parts car is a 122. Neither runs, guy says only carb work to run it... We'll see. Question one... In your opinions, was it an ok deal? These seem to only really be worth around $2500 in good condition in my area.
My other question is just looking for advice on what you may all say about it. If you could take a look at the pictures and let me know if you spot any trouble areas besides the fairly obvious, like the holes in the passenger side floor pan, driver seat floor pan.
The drivers side fender is rusted along the seem where the hood shuts. I can not afford to buy new fenders. Is there a way to weld patch that or do you know if the sedan version will fit the 220 version?
Couple other minor things. Theres a picture somewhere of the drivers door opening with a, what looks like, shredded rubber seal thats covered in cloth. These all seem to be bad in the entire car. Is there a part number for these and how do they attach? Looks like you unscrew some body panel and rescrew and they pinch in??
The latch that latches the rear window to the tailgate, its broke. Besides wiring it closed, there any way to fix this besides the $70 part? I would think there has to be some kind of other latch that would work in its place...
Last question before I head to bed. Below the tail light theres what looks like reflective warning lights on the car. How do you get those off? I see no screws and have twisted the cover but don't want to break anything lest I have to buy more stuff.
I appreciate any help and if you spot anything please feel free to mention it. This is my first real project car and I'm not scared of it, I just want to know monetarily, how much am I going to have to kick out as I don't have that much to spend.
Thanks.
On with the pictures. =)
[IMG]http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/1/2/volvo_amazon_1_by_rogue77-d4276kl.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/211/c/d/volvo_amazon_2_by_rogue77-d4276n3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/b/7/volvo_amazon_3_by_rogue77-d4276pj.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/211/2/e/volvo_amazon_4_by_rogue77-d4276te.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/c/3/volvo_amazon_5_by_rogue77-d4276wb.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/d/9/volvo_amazon_6_by_rogue77-d42771s.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/f/7/volvo_amazon_7_by_rogue77-d42777o.jpg[/IMG]
^ door seal ?
[IMG]http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/b/d/volvo_amazon_8_by_rogue77-d4277aq.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/b/e/volvo_amazon_9_by_rogue77-d4277cn.jpg[/IMG]
^ How do you get this off?
[IMG]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/3/b/volvo_amazon_11_by_rogue77-d4277i3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/f/d/volvo_amazon_12_by_rogue77-d4277ip.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/211/a/4/volvo_amazon_13_by_rogue77-d4277jk.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/211/2/e/volvo_amazon_14_by_rogue77-d4277nl.jpg[/IMG]
^ Drivers side wing(?), there a way to weld patch this??
[IMG]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/211/9/d/volvo_amazon_15_by_rogue77-d42781m.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/211/8/b/volvo_amazon_17_by_rogue77-d4277v8.jpg[/IMG]
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I can take more pictures if anyone wants me too.
Again, thanks for any help or pointers. =)
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Not bad, I have seen worse. The floor pan looks pretty good, and POR15 along with fiber glass will patch that nicely. Get a Sears battery for around $65, measure the opening first, the width is critical. I didn't see any hold down hardware for the battery so it will rest in there loosely, but that is OK for now.
Save the carpeting for LAST. Along with the windlass, the old fuzzy one just pulls out, the replacement is pushed in via wide flat bladed screwdriver or plastic putty knife.
Get replacement fenders, don't bother to weld the upper fender.
Your first priority is to get the engine running and keep the rain out of the cabin. The reason the floors rusted through is because of water on the inside, cars do leak around the windshield. All of the rubber seals are old and will need to be replaced. A good time to replace the side window seals is when you repaint.
The reflectors in the rear have a single nut holding them on. You have to take the inside panel off and with a small flashlight you will be able to see the rusted nut. Spray it with PBBlaster and wait a few days, it might come off.
Get new rubber for the turn signals, cheap and you will want to replace what is on the car anyway. The backup bulb is impossible to find, so replace the brake bulbs and turnsignal bulbs. Get Euro sytle headlamps if you need new ones, they have a better beam pattern than the DOT.
Take the rear hatch latch off and find out why it doesn't work. See if the key even fits, the tumbler may be frozen and not turning due to corrosion.
If you haven't started the engine yet, remove the spark plugs and turn the engine by hand for 720 degrees. There should be no resistance. If there is oil in the sump and antifreeze in the radiator, get the car started. You can change the oil/antifreeze later.
Seat webbing can be easily replaced by using patio furniture webbing, if you are in a hurry. IPD also sells webbing.
Read this site, it is a Godsend:
http://www.sw-em.com/service%20notes.htm#Wiring%20Diagrams
BTW, I always thought 1969 was the last year for the 220. Perhaps 1970 was export only?
Klaus
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1967 220 belonging to C.A. lives on
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I've got some experience, having had 4 122s including 2 1966 wagons. (which I still have)
The stuff around the door is called "windlace" and it is available from several places
including Restoration Specialties in Windber, PA.
You may find it easier to replace the front fenders with the ones from the parts car rather
than try to weld the old ones. The metal is probably rusted pretty thin.
I replaced floor panels with 16 gauge black sheet iron, bent at a sheet metal shop.
You'll need to buy a new or used upper tailgate latch.
Check with Joe Lazenby at Susquehanna Spares, Harrisburg/Carlisle, PA
You'll be able to use the front seats from the sedan but the back seats are different.
Feel free to get in touch with more specific questions. I'm at
[username follows] gdowns [at] cableone [dot] net [nothing follows]
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George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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Thanks for the pointers.
If I do decide to do this project and think my budget can handle it, I plan to get it running then tackle the body work, probably interior to exterior.
Now thats its mostly gutted and I have an idea, the only thing I want to do to it now is get it running and see what that will run. If it costs to much to get running, the project stops.
From there, in a month, take it to school, write up my quote and see what the teachers have to say. Honestly I wouldn't blame them if they said no. But I'm also concerned about how much the quote will be at school.
If I want to do a proper job, right the first time, I'd have to buy new floor pans, 1 or 2 front fenders, probably all the rubber/gasket seals and potentially new upholstery.
I do have pictures of the seats. Just plain aged vinyl. Some thread is broke, couple tears in the vinyl. That'd be about the last thing on my list to fix. The rubber band thing under both front seats need to be replaced though. I sink into the seat when I sit on it. =P
I can't guess engine cost(not a mechanic) but body wise, I'd guess $1000US to do it proper in parts, plus paint, plus carpet/etc.
Questions I have though..
Does anyone know any good websites that have body parts(like fenders/wings, seals, etc) that I can order from?
How do you lay the back seat down?
As is, what do you think it would be worth if worse came to worse and I had to sell it?
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Sorry about the pics. I don't actually know how to add pictures into this system.
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You pull up on the back of the bottom seat and pivot it towards the front seats. (there might be a latch. I forget, but I don't think so. Don't force it though)
Then you twist the handle in the middle of the rear of the back seat to release it, and fold that back part of the seat down.
Beware... once you do that, you'll be in love with the car and will only imagine all the places you can go and sleep in the car...
I looked at your pics a day or two ago. My assessment was.. man. Where to start... You have a project on your hands.
That said, you also have the right attitude. Get 'er running first. Should be a cake walk. Engine looks complete, all the bits are there. So, start it up.
What I'd do... considering it's been sitting a couple years...
1)Try to turn engine over by hand. Make sure it's not stuck
2)Pull fuel lines, blow through them, make sure all are clear
3)Put battery in, turn over until oil light goes out(coil disconnected to be sure it won't start)
4)Take off the float covers on the carbs, clean inside, then add a bit of gas to each
5)Replace float covers, hook coil back up, and fire it up
(note... it won't run for long. You don't have the gas tank hooked up, so no new fuel)
6)If it started, Yay! Put fresh gas in the tank, hook all the fuel lines back up and get her to run off her own fuel supply.
7)Fix clutch and brake hydraulics so you can drive it!
I'd recommend having a fire extinguisher on hand throughout this process.
Body and interior, Let them rot for now.
Drive it and have fun. Oh.. tires. Your tires are way old. Replace.
From what I seen in them pictures, your car is hardly a restoration candidate. But, it can be a fine driver, a great learner Volvo, and plenty of fun. Enjoy it!
Sorry for the synopsis... it's basically a reminder for myself of what I have in store this week, and it's a good way to remind myself of what I gotta do.
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Matt,
Just one thing to add - slap a couple of fuel filters on the lines! That tank could be full of crap...
Kent
p.s. GO FOR IT!!! If you are going to use this car "forever," consider what others pay for modern cars and end up with a piece of you-know-what that in a couple of years is not worth anything!
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"From what I seen in them pictures, your car is hardly a restoration candidate."
I am just curious, but why would you say that? I understand the work involved and the money that COULD be involved and I'll get a clearer picture of the underside when its on the hoist but besides body work, which I'd do myself, paint, which I'd probably do myself, I don't see much more cost then getting new seals for windows, couple misc things and the upholestry, which I'm 100% fine with trying to do myself with some carpet and a scissors and some glue.
I mean yeah, I'll be doing this myself and it will probably look like a hack job but its my first resto. Gotta start somewhere right?
Besides the fenders, which I think I'll buy new/used ones if the option presents itself as my are hashed and the floor pans, I don't think its that bad really...
I do think thats my current plan at least, get it running, see what it costs to insure it and make it my driver for awhile and see if its fun.
Time will tell.. =)
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I'm sure there are those out there that would ream me for this, however I restored a P1800 that was in WAY worse shape and I didn't buy any factory panels. Everything got sandblasted to take off the visible rust then on the inside a layer or two (perhaps more depending on location) of fiberglass followed by POR 15 then rubberized undercoating. Fill in the bits where the metal is gone with bondo on top of the fiberglass, do a good job painting and not only will no one know the panels will last forever.
I strongly recommend to let fiberglass be your friend.
I would also recommend "stabilizing" the car. i.e. make sure the interior is water tight, fix any problems on the underside (I have a body shop friend who puts a layer of sealant stuff call it epoxy (that memory thing gets better with age I'm told!) on the entire car, starting with the underside.
Once the car is stabilized, then get her running. Just my two cents.
Oh while my brain is still working:
I always use Mountain dew cans with the tops cut off for mixing cans
here are your brushes:
http://www.harborfreight.com/pack-of-36-1-inch-industrial-grade-chip-brushes-4181.html
and Walmart seems to have the best price for resin and mats.
Take your time and if you are going to do something, do it right, you will be glad you did! OH! 3/8" plate steel is WAY too thick for floor pans. (yes, I did that, my weld job was awesome but again, a couple layers of fiberglass would have been fine.
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I buy most of my parts from VP Autoparts. They have a very large inventory and reasonable prices. You can download one of their catalogs: http://www.vp-autoparts.com/ I prefer the UK or Swedish catalog because it has pictures and better layout and they have the same parts.
For reference, I like to go to SKANDIX: http://www.skandix.de/en/installationpictures/Volvo-220/Body-Repairsheets/1026296/2000302/ Roll over the car for part numbers.
The engine shouldn't be too difficult. If it sat for a while, I would probably change the oil first. Then try turning it over.
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1959 Volvo Amazon 121
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One word of advise: Repairs start to add up fast. I am also a college student. I commute to school, so the money I save goes to my car, but I also work two part time jobs.
You can start out with bodywork first, but with limited funds, you probably won't finish the project. I bought my Amazon a year ago for $600. Within a year, I have put $3200 into it, in order to get it on the road. Yet, I haven't done any bodywork. I am going to be using this car long term, so the costs don't bother me.
What I recommend is doing work in this order: getting the engine to run, working on the brakes and clutch, then electrical and lights, and then probably suspension.
I wonder if the starting problem is in the ignition rather than the carbs. It looks like the condenser isn't grounded to the distributor. Where does the battery (+) go to? It should be going to the starter.
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1959 Volvo Amazon 121
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First, i don't really know what your budget is but i'll give hints in a way you don't have to spend a lot of money, there's only one thing that will cost much : the paintjob , unless you can do it at school that's going to be expensive , all te rest since it looks quite complete and you have another car for parts it isn't going to be very expensive, there are some things which really have to be replaced like : rubbers , gaskets and some nuts and bolts here and there .
Since it's the b18 engine you'll probably get it running with only a little work , i have one myself which didn't run for over 16 years and without any work i got it running ( i only had to put new gasoline in it ).But i advice you to clean the carbs first ( on volvoamazonpictures.se you can find documents about your engine which describe how everything is put together and how to adjust everything ).To me it looks like a fair deal , in this region 1 car which is even worse than you have sells for more ...(and a 220 is even more expensive since they are rare here , don't know if they are rare where you are ... ), i really depends on your local market , a good one here can be sold for the equivalent of 6000 dollars or more ...
A few problem area's you should consider to repair : where you place the battery , below the brake main cilinder ( always a lot of rust there from the brake fluid ) , when you replace the floor panels also check if the metal support beams under it are ok because they often to have rust . And probably another point of intrest is the doors , they almost every time have rust on the bottom , but since you have the other car you can use some of it's metal to repair this . Probably another spot of trouble could be under the front wing , you'll have to unscrew it to see this , if you have unscrewed it you'll probably find a few other spots of rust ( mostly to the back )
As far as i know they both fit each other , but probably they will both have this problem , you can repair it , don't know how but i've seen this (i can't weld myself so ...) , probably below the side fenders seem there's more rust , this also have to be repaires probably but since you can't really see this you can try to repair this first to get some experience
The shredder rubber is something which blocks wind from the outside , this don't have to be replaced but best is you do , don't know if they have a part number but you can get them in almost every part shop , they are screwed at certain spots and clamped behind other things in other spots , best thing to know they are mounted is to remove them.( that's always the best way to know how something is fitted , but beware : don't forget to write something down now sometimes because you can forget how somethings mounted ...) You can use the documents on volvoamazonpictures.se to know how some things are mounted but sometimes it's not really clear ...
For the latch i don't think you can repair this , this will probably be one of the components you'll have to buy ...
The reflectors can be unbolted from the inside , you'll probably have to remove a few parts before you can reach this ...
One more thing : do you have any pictures of the seats ?
It's probably going to cost a few hundreds if you only replace what's nececary ... ( except for the paintjob ... )
I don't advice replacing only what's necassary but since i'm a student too i understand your budget isn't that great ( i have the luck my parents support me in this and they help a little towards finishing my amazon )
Sheet metal can be used from the other car ( if it isn't really bad ).
Rubbers will have to be replaced here and there so this probably is a first cost , second some gaskets to let the engine work properly , and a few other things : probably the carpet is bad , if you don't have money for one that's specially for the amazon you can go to the local carpet shop and hope they have some leftovers for you which you can cut to size ... A few minor things will be like : changing lightbulbs , a little paint here and there , oil , brake fluid, cooling fluid , and some material to work with ... Also you'll probably have to change some parts on your brake system ... I hope your clutch still works because that can be quite expensive ...
Btw, your pictures didn't work the way you posted them ...
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