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What years are the instrument clusters interchangable with the one from a '91
240 non-turbo car?
thanks for any help in advance.
--
'86 sedan with 447,000 miles on the original engine and automatic transmission
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Wow Dave, what a wealth of cluster information. Thanks for your interest.
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'86 sedan with 447,000 miles on the original engine and automatic transmission
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Yo Bob! That's right up my alley. 91 is rather a difficult year as it has attributes that make it exclusive. Both 90 and 91 have the extra little circuit board mounted at the bottom, back center with a little white cover. My experimentation leads me to believe this is related to the SRS system.
Next, 91 has a female spade lug to the driver's side of the white enclosure on the back that houses the speedo head. This is the ECU signal to the check engine light. It's there because, since some 91s have ABS, the check engine light is moved left one space next to the service indicator to make room for the ABS light. I think that's contact 235, by the way. It lights the second idiot lamp from the left. It takes the only male spade lug wire behind the dash.
A 90 cluster has the SRS board, but does not have the female spade lug. However it can be added. I just pull the insulator sleeve off a connector and solder it in. You have to swap out the light legends on the left side of the cluster so your check engine light is in spot number 2.
89 cluster has the extra female lug on the back. That will be the glow plug lamp for diesel engines, available in Europe in '89. However there is no board for SRS. Having done this swap is actually what leads me to believe that little board is SRS related (hanged if I can determine from the schematic). After testing a particularly irksome '89 cluster in my 91, my SRS system threw a code and I had fits getting it to clear even after putting my cluster back.
All 89-91 clusters are LH2.4/3.x compatible and have only four pins on the crescent connector. The only caveats are the SRS issue, the extra lug 235 and the warning light positions. These will work in LH2.2 cars too.
From memory, the ECU for LH2.4 gets it's speed signal from the round cluster plug #6. (Note to Lucid, the Bentley lists the ECU as LH2.2 for 89-93, and it's listed in the wrong grid.) 90-91 cars don't require a speed signal wire to the cruise ECU, done through the same contact? I'll have to check that.
On 86-88 clusters the wire color on pin 6 of the plug is different (red) and I've never been able to find where that goes on the 2.2 schematics. Cruise ECU takes it's signal from the double male spade lug on the passenger side of the speedo enclosure from 86-88, so that's no clue. I have put LH2.2 clusters in 2.4 cars though, and they run fine. I just don't know if the ECU is getting a signal from pin 6, I've never checked.
I'm a little hazy on the next section, but if memory serves:
The speed signal to the LH2.4 ECU is for injector pulse management, as I understand it. That's from a Bosch LH book I once read--again, if I remember correctly. It gives an automatic trans car some degree of engine braking on de-cel. Something about idle characteristics too. In other words, if it was missing, as a result of putting a 2.2 cluster in a 2.4 car and not having that signal present at pin 6 for the ECU, I'm not sure how noticeable it would be. Certainly if the car is a manual, the engine braking issue is moot.
Hope that helps!
Dave
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Dave some good information. My 1990 wiring diagram shows the speed signal for the cruise control is also picked up by a yellow wire via connector 203(double spaded lug connector) just like the earlier years. It then goes to pin 5 of the cruise control module.(171 connector) The round connector is listed as 31.
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Is that Bentley? My experience is that 89 is the last year to have the external wire for the cruise. I've never found a 90 or up car that doesn't have it in the harness. That said, I would be the last one to say that Volvo didn't "bleed over", and thus there may be 90s with the wire, thus the notation.
DS
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Volvo green manual 1990 Wiring Diagrams. I've pulled many 1990 clusters and they all had the yellow wire going to the double spade connector.(213)
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Now you have my interest piqued! I know that lead can be for cruise or up-shift indicator monitor. Is there another function it might be controlling that I've missed?
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David - I have a 1994 F-car (Firebird/Camaro) LT-1 V8 in my 89 740 wagon and have the GM drivetrain manuals for those donor cars. The descriptions of the various sensors and their functions is excellent, better than Volvo. (OTOH, the wiring diagrams are rubbish compared to Volvo's Green Books.)
Anyway the vehicle speed signal to the ECU (PCM, or powertrain control module in GM-speak) is used for a number of things such as to lean out the fuel mixture at cruising speeds with light throttle. Another function is to shut down the injectors if the throttle is fully closed, engine speed is more than 1500RPM, and vehicle speed is more than some value. This does indeed give added engine braking (I have a 6-speed T56 manual trans), and you can feel the braking decrease, and exhaust note change, when the RPM's drop below 1500 and the injectors resume functioning. A mini-"Jake brake" effect.
I've also read that this helps reduce emissions (well, yes, no fuel is being burned), and that it reduces thermal stress on the catalytic converter, presumably since sustained high engine RPM with closed throttle (a long mountain downhill) would put a fair bit of fuel and not much air into the exhaust stream. Cats don't like "rich" exhausts.
--
Bob: son's 81-GL, dtr's '94-940, my 83-DL, 89-745(V8) and 98-S90. Also 77-MGB and some old motorcycles.
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Good input (no pun intended). Thanks!
DS
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Volvo's documentation only lists idle problems, but I replied to one "injector cut on decel" post on TB with the knee-jerk suggestion VSS was missing or intermittent.
Also, see some discussion on what must have been Xray's duplicate thread here:
Instrument cluster interchangability from 1991 240
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Money can’t buy happiness, but it sure makes misery easier to live with.
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The bee's knees would be to trace the speedo head side board on the earlier units and determine if the signal is being generated for pin six of plug 31. We know the signal is "on the board", since it comes in from the diff, and it is available on the back of the cluster as the feed for the cruise and the upshift indicator in one form or another. However I'm fairly sure the output is modified for the ECU feed. I'm looking for my Bosch LH injection manual. Unfortunately it probably doesn't give any insight into the speedo board. Perhaps it will give the signal configuration. If the output is the same (doubtful) one could take the blue/black ECU wire to the double spade connector.
DS
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I dunno Dave. Like I mentioned in the earlier thread, pretty nearly any one can be made to work if geekified*, but I think the OP was interested in "interchange" with the sort of meaning a used parts dealer gives it. Plug and play. For that answer, I think we boiled it down to 90 or 91 given there's no concern about cruise. 91 only, to be "nitpicky."
Anyhow, I'm bookmarking these twin threads as one of the most complete cataloging of cluster awareness I've seen thanks to input from you and Al.
*modified electrically
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Worrying works! 90% of the things I worry about never happen.
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I agree. I categorize as follows:
86, 87 (no service reset) and 88 (rear service reset) all compatible
89 (2.4, rear service reset, halogen bulbs 1st year, #2 light lug)
90(2.4, SRS, front serv reset, halogen, no #2 light lug) 91 (+#2 light lug)
92-93 ABS (41062/39200-SRS, ABS, Front reset, four pin brd, halogen, #2 lug)
I will do an 89 cluster for installation in 90/91 but only with disclaimer about the service reset (which I disable due to no front reset) and SRS. The SRS ECU will indeed store an error if the cluster connection is not correct. I can't say if the system is not active, but I'd bet not.
I sold my scope a few years back. Given that, and a spare hour or so, I would set up a head on a bench, trace where that #6 pin comes from, and see if the signal is present in the correct form on the earlier boards. In fact, I'm going to trace the pin later today just out of curiosity. The boards all have three connectors (oooo, those same connectors!) so I'll bet it is there. Since the bottom two are power, it makes sense that the top connector goes to pin 6. If the blasted 87-88 schematic showed where the red wire on #6 goes, that would help. I'll have to take another look at that too.
I can't find my Yellow Bosch LH manual anyplace. This means I probably loaned it to someone. Lo and behold, I did find my Bosch K-jet manual, hidden by the over-sized shop manual for our long gone Rover 2000! End of the year, maybe it's time to clean the bookshelves.
And speaking of which--happy holiday season to you!
Dave
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Dave, you've capped it! Clear summary.
Given you have the yellowbook for the K-jet, I suggest you get started converting your LH (conversions) back to the wonderfully smooth and elegant Kontinuerlich injection! You'd be surprised at how influential having service information is to my purchase selection. (Oooh, I like the paint, let's buy it honey.)
On the pre-89 clusters, I think you'll find 6 and 11 are the same; the red wire being alternator exciter. Check me out on that. Seems too simplistic, and bear in mind I have no LH2.2 experience except in the yards and on other people's cars. So just look to see if the trace on the board connects both pins. No scope needed!!!
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water.
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I'll get to the color thing an awhile. Meanwhile, on the cluster, okay, you have me goin' now. Such fun.
LH2.2 clusters, 86-88. Pin 6 is indeed plumbed to the hot side of the #4 bulb, which is the charge indicator. Obviously the exciter circuit, and woe is me for missing that--Thx Art.
On the LH2.2 clusters, the third, top pin on the speedo board is plumbed only to the double spade terminal 203 on the back of the cluster. Thus, as suspected, the top pin is the speed signal for cruise and up-shift indicator.
LH2.4 clusters, Pin 11, as Art stated, goes to the hot side of the charge indicator. The top pin from the speedo board is common to both 203, the double spade terminal AND pin number twelve on the round plug. This would indicate that cruise is indeed plumbed into the harness for 90 (I'm working with a 90 cluster on my desk and a 90 car on the driveway which has cruise--no yellow wire on the cluster--automatic--no up-shift system...but I won't swear to anything about that yellow wire!). The double spade would not have been removed, it still serves for the up-shift indicator speed feed...and perhaps something else, thus my query to Yama. Unfortunately Bentley shows 203 only in 91, it's yellow, and there's nothing at the other end that I can find. Yama, can you tell me if the Greenie has another function for this? Does 203 go elsewhere too?
This leaves the mysterious pin 6, which goes to a blue wire in 90 or a blue/black in 91 for the ECU. First thing we can say is that it is not connected to either 203 or the top speedo pin--THEREFORE IT IS NOT AN INTERCHANGEABLE SPEED SIGNAL AND THE 2.2 CLUSTER CANNOT BE ADAPTED FOR 2.4 FULL FUNCTIONALITY via that connection, which was the point of my study. Pin 6 is connected to bulb #10 which is the bulb fault indicator. I'll bet that's a signal to the ECU to shut down the cruise if there's a bulb fault. I know a bulb fault kills the cruise on all years from 86 up. Volvo think if there is a brake problem, you should not be able to engage cruise control. Possibly an off-shoot of the Audi 5000 gas pedal thing?
A little more investigation on the 90 schematic shows an additional feed to plug #32, pin 3 at the cluster from the ECU. So two connections, not one. 32 is the crescent plug, and pin #3 is market specific. Pin #3 comes from the ECU AND it passes a junction which comes from EZK terminal #3. Again, not common to LH2.2, since 2.2 does not have EZK. Pink for 90, pink/white for 91. This contact runs into the ribbon cable on the back of the cluster and lights the check engine light in 89/90. My conclusion is that the speed signal is not going to the LH ECU from the cluster at all.
The pink or pink/white cluster connection is market specific after the junction to the EZK. In 90, this lead goes to 235, instrument connection (glow plug again, I thought diesel died in 89-guess not). 235 in the US for 91 is Check Engine--that checks out. In 90 it goes to both 235 AND/OR the crescent plug #3 pin with market qualifiers. I've physically checked: Check engine light is bulb 3 for 90 and is off pin 3 of the crescent plug. It makes sense that it would be connected to the two ECUs. Again, nothing to do with speed.
My point is that there is no way to get a speed signal of the correct type to an LH2.4 ECU from an LH2.2 cluster. I'm hoping Yama will confirm that the speed signal to the ECU comes from the EZK, a unit which I'm not that familiar with, since it's so trouble free! My thought is that the speed signal must be generated by the flywheel sensor. It needs to be reading engine speed, not vehicle speed...right?
___________________________________________________________________________
On another note, concerning Art's comment about color: There's a brown 80 wagon up for sale on E-bay this week. This is a car I did a couple of years ago. Another potential customer nixed it based on "honey's" input. She said no go, as it looked like a UPS truck!
I like to quote a fellow 240 enthusiast who lives not far from us in Ventura. His take: "Henry Ford notwithstanding, all cars should be white".
DS
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"I'm hoping Yama will confirm that the speed signal to the ECU comes from the EZK. My thought is that the speed signal must be generated by the flywheel sensor. It needs to be reading engine speed, not vehicle speed...right?"
The speed signal comes from the tone ring inside the differential via pin 1 and 2 of the "L-connector"(233) The flywheel generates both a RPM and crank position signal for the ICU not a speed signal. Cruise control needs the speed signal and the EZK needs the flywheel signal. Crank position for ignition timing and rpm for dwell.
"The double spade would not have been removed, it still serves for the up-shift indicator speed feed...and perhaps something else, thus my query to Yama. Unfortunately Bentley shows 203 only in 91, it's yellow, and there's nothing at the other end that I can find. Yama, can you tell me if the Greenie has another function for this? Does 203 go elsewhere too?"
The 1990 green manual shows the double spade(203) going only to pin 5 of the cruise control module. The single spade lug(connector 34) with the Y-R wire is the shift indicator connection.
"My conclusion is that the speed signal is not going to the LH ECU from the cluster at all. "
Not sure on this but the wiring diagrams do list a connection to pin 34 of the ECU. I checked 2 1990 boards and found one pin on connector 31 electrically connected to 203. I can't say if this is pin 6 or not as there is some conflict in the greenie as to pin # placement. To confirm I would have to look at the numbers on the actual connector on the harness.
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Hey Yama,
I should not have said "speed" signal. In fact, I don't think the LH ECU gets a speed signal at all. Not VSS that is, vehicle speed. I think it gets ESS, engine speed signal (RPM). There does not appear to be anything in the schematics that connects the board on the speedo, which receives the signal from the diff, to the ECU at all. The only connection is from the bulb fault lamp. On the other hand, there are two or three connections from the EZK to the LH ECU.
Spade terminal 34 is the input TO the cluster from the up-shift "suggesterer" module, or from the automatic OD relay in an automatic car.
Agreed, the speed signal (the AC signal) from the diff sensor comes in on the L connector 233. But I don't think that does anything but drive the speedo and provide vehicle speed signal for cruise and up-shift monitor (fuel economy advisor).
Agreed about the input at 34 to the ECU. It is indeed the 6 pin on the 31 plug. I still think that's related to cruise cut off. The other bulb fault signal comes in on pin 12, uh-oh, speed signal common to 203 again. Wow. Does the Greenie give you a clue as to what 34 at the ECU is?
Thanks!
DS
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Hey Dave,
You were doing so well. Now you've done and gone jumped off on the deep end.
Where did you get that bulb-failure-sensor-to-ecu-connection idea? Pipe dream!
Yes the LH2.4 gets an engine speed signal, but that arrives from the EZK. VSS comes from pin 6, which, if you turn over the cluster board, is connected to the dual spade lug. In the cluster, it comes from the speedometer (the taximeter output) and not from the diff sensor directly. It is a logic signal, 2ms (from my memory) pulse. The ECU will set a DTC 311 if it is missing.
You're right on the tab in the corner, where the yellow/red wire connects. In LH2.4 cars that upshift suggesterer is inside the ECU, so there's a selectable jumper (purple wire) at the cabin-to-engine harness that disconnects the ECU when the automatic transmission is configured. Makes a mess of a resistor in the ECU when some helpful person re-connects it, much like the same helpful guy who connects the tach lead to your dual spade VSS tab and fries your speedometer.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
You know that indestructible black box that is used on airplanes? Why don't they make the whole plane out of that stuff?!
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Well I sure feel like typing a couple of expletives. I have fallen afoul of Bentley, and in a pretty silly fashion. NO excuses though, I messed up.
On the schematics, #6 is at the top of the 31 plug. It's at the "point" of the keyway. It does indeed go to the bulb failure bulb, not 203 and the top speedo pin.
There's only one problem: The diagram is upside down. Based on your message, I just went and pulled a plug out of my box of wiring goodies. #6 is on the bottom of the key, #12 is on the top. #12 goes to the bulb failure lamp. Gasp! Holy dyslexic deception, Batman. I should have checked this when Yama mentioned something about the numbering being in question in the Green book.
Thus, 6 is indeed the same as the double spade lug and the top pin of the speedo head. Since that is now the terminal going to pin 34 on the ECU, that is the VSS and you are saying the cruise, upshift and ECU all use the same signal? In a pinch then, one could pull the #6 wire from the 2.4 #31 plug and hook it to a 2.2 cluster's 203 terminal and have the right signal for the ECU.
DS
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Here are some clear enough (large) images of an 89 board, where I've penciled in pin numbers. Flipping between them is no convenience like having the board in your hands, but possible:
solder side
comp side
The BFWS-cruise link works this way, I think. If the entire BFWS is missing, or the brake light portion of the sense path is open, the cruise will not see a ground through the brake lights. The same result would occur if all three brake light bulbs burned out. No Audi lesson here, just a practical way of knowing the brake pedal isn't being pushed.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.
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Gotcha on the cruise--that's a known. Your embedded links brought up a not-found screen, but I'm with you on the numbering now.
I guess the big aha here, with the pins orientated now, is that the pulse is indeed the same signal for the cruise and the ECU. Not that I condone the 2.2 cluster for a 2.4 car, but it can be done.
On the ECU/Injection management issue: I want to buy a new Bosch book, or do some on line research and see if indeed there is some "tuning" being done at higher rpm, decel, what have you. I'm curious to know if the ECU is comparing RPM and VSS, especially if decel injector management is being done, or if whatever it's doing is strictly on vehicle speed.
I should probably open a new post and do a comprehensive list of the differences on the clusters. I've cluster-cluttered this one up!
DS
They would not be smart enough to pour piss out of their boots, if the instructions were written on the sole--Garrison Keillor (This boot fits me, and my sample plug, perfectly!)
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I took a look at my links and felt a little less happy about the warm liquid in my boots, and owe you thanks that your response was quick enough to permit me to make the corrections.
On the cluster reference post, I was thinking the same thing. Let's collaborate if you don't mind -- like with the Bentley Errata. Pass it around (Yama, you, me) email before posting -- giving us each a chance to add our own particular experience. The resulting thread can be augmented by the community at large.
Regarding VSS use by the ECU, VADIS, and following a smattering of posts from people fighting driveability problems that reset with a new start, never tying it to their missing speedometer, is all I have. I've never found the Bosch manuals to be specifically helpful on things like this -- just general theory.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
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Agreed. I'll start later today, gotta beat the rain this AM.
DS
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The "speed signal" I've been discussing is VSS, vehicle speed sensor, not crank sensor. It is indeed passed from the cluster connector 31 pin 6 to ECU 34 on LH2.4 cars.
Dave caught another LH2.4 difference you and I forgot to discuss when he got all pink on us. Pink is the CEL circuit.
PS - there's a hint as to the plug pin numbering in this post: Which cluster pin/wire feeds the temp sender? 244
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Why don't you ever see the headline 'Psychic Wins Lottery'?
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"I will do an 89 cluster for installation in 90/91 but only with disclaimer about the service reset (which I disable due to no front reset) and SRS. The SRS ECU will indeed store an error if the cluster connection is not correct. I can't say if the system is not active, but I'd bet not. "
The Volvo schematic show a "black box" circuit labeled as "HIC" (hybrid integrated circuit?) isolating the output of the crash sensor to the bulb indicator lamp on the instrument cluster. Typically such a circuit would offer protection to the SRS crash sensor to a problem on the instrument board. Based on this I would avoid using the 1989 in a 1990/1991.
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Despite posts about age of the systems, I think it very likely they are active and deploy-able even at this age, so I agree completely about the 89 clusters.
Over the years I've seen some pretty spicy debates about airbags on the site. I'm an SRS advocate, personally.
DS
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