I'm wondering if there is any significant difference between the 1990-93 models of the 240 and the 1986-1989 models. Is there one year that stands out particularly well? I've heard that 87-89 are generally good years for the 240, but I'm not sure of what happened after that to lower their reputation. What changes were made in 1990?

thanks

89-93 are CPS; 89-91/92 are non-ABS. These are my models of choice. 88-down have wiring harness problems; I prefer the CPS ignition; ABS and air-bags don't work without regular maintenance.

It depends on how you want to use the car. For me these are work cars: I don't care about styling; I don't care about details of handling/ tires/ shocks/ ..... and I don't want to fuss with maintenance.

I just want a car that starts and goes, withstands rough roads and heavy use, is easy to repair. I like them for their function.


--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars

As far as I know the ABS and airbags require absolutely no maintenance. I saw a deployed airbag in a car recently, Volvo revised their 10 year replacement interval, and my ABS system works great. Never have I done anything than a solitary fluid flush when I replaced my front brake lines.

Get one with ABS and airbags. A car without an airbag will Never deploy an airbag. One with an airbag likely will, and if not, it will not fare any worse than one designed without airbags.

My ABS has saved my butt several times. Hit the sensors with some brake cleaner when you change your pads. I think(?) that the car will trip the ABS light if it detects no input from the wheel sensors for an extended amount of time.
Two times the ABS saved my car were when a semi ran a red light (barstard was on a cell phone!) in the rain, and another time was when someone made a left turn across 3 lanes from the right-turn only lane.
If I had had ABS in the camry I was driving, I would have avoided hitting a horse two years ago.
ABS should be required by law on all new cars.

--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond

ABS and air bags are great on newer vehicles. I have 2 newer vehicles with them. Requisite safety features.

ABS & SRS on 240s is a 20+ year old design. ABS on my late-90s cars and trucks was bad enough.

The air bag on the newest one (93) will be long past replacement per Volvo. I've never had working ABS on an older 240. IMO, no safety equipment is better than bad safety equipment that gives you a false sense of security.

240s are strong but will be up to new-car safety specs. It's a tradeoff you make when you decide to drive one.

I think Volvo changed the airbag replacement interval from 10 years to 20 years, but I could be mistaken.I recently saw one in PnP with a deployed airbag.

I can see that it might give a false sense of security, but my equipment's never let me down, with proper maintenance.
A car with no safety equipment has 0 odds of its safety equipment working. No?

Whatever you ride, Happy Bricking
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond

The airbag service was changed to 15 years. I don't remember reading here about anyone servicing their airbags. Has anyone?

Is it true that the ABS sensor light will come on if the sensor has been inactive for sometime? I thought the problem was rust build-up.
--
Bessie - 95 855 GLT Sportwagon; 93 854 GLT; Inga - 90 244 DL 300k, gone but not forgotton

ABS is required by law on all new cars sold in the U.S.

That's news to me. My friend bought an 07 or 08 (I think 08) Kia and ABS was optional for it. Was this a recent change?
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond

Will,

Sorry, I was incorrect.

Goatman

We've had a '89 DL wagon for over 6 years-it's the best! (IMO)

I think we all have our favorites. I'll weigh in with my own opinion. I'm very partial to 91s. Airbag yes, but no ABS, which can be a problem with rusty wheel sensors in wet climes and is just another layer of complexity. I'm also fond of the fuel pump setup without the engine bay fuse in 91; 90 being the last year of the engine bay fuse. 91 is also the last year for the "regular" speedo heads, easier to find. I don't have a problem with an 89 that has had it's ECU changed. Weak fuel pump circuit in the 89 ECU as noted by others. The upside is that the 89 and up cars are LH2.4 (or 3.x), which, aside from the 89 ECU, is a great system with the on-board diagnostic module.

Yes, starting with 85, we have skinny rod B230 engines. When people ask me how much LESS durable they are, I usually reply that in regular use, they may only last 450k miles instead of 500. I just did a cluster for a woman with 493k miles on her one-owner 86 245. For 88 the rods are beefier again AND, most important for me, the wiring harnesses don't self destruct. I think these two things are what make '88s such a favorite. If you are planning on hopping up an engine, the skinny rod B230 is probably not the one to use. IMHO, the tuning of the 88s is slightly different. They always seem so peppy, especially with a stick. 86-87 I avoid, just hate dealing with the harnesses. I will put up with an 85, which is also part of the bad-harness club, but because it's the last of the second generation cars and has the LH2.2 I like them.

I don't have any problems with LH2.0 and 2.1 cars, short of the fact that the system is prone to some idle issues--just not as refined. Thus 83-84 cars are my least favorite of the injected vehicles, but acceptable. 84 seems to have an inordinate number of mid year changes. I think there are 3 or 4 different master cylinders for example, not to mention the mid-year change on the injection itself. LH2.0 to 2.1, I have seen 84's with both. Of course it may just be that someone swapped the ECU or AMM. These cars are in the heart of bad-harness territory, so beware. I prefer the later, rotary compressors of the 85 and up cars to the York piston compressors, if one is considering converting to R134 refrigerant.

Prior to 83 (in the US and at the risk of bringing down upon myself the wrath of the entire K-jet community), I would suggest that a do-it-yourselfer without much experience avoid 240s. The electronic injection is so much more closely related to more modern cars, is easier to service, but more important is easier to have serviced. I know several good shops in our area who simply don't work on mechanical injection any more, and I would bet that scenario is spreading. Don't get me wrong, I own two K-jet cars--for now. But both are slated to be converted to LH. If you must have the earlier car though, the harnesses are better pre-80 I think (someone check me on that please).

There, more than enough on that subject.
DS

Boy, David, you sure threw out the red meat today!

I am personally divided down the middle with your...ahem...provocative subject. I own and have owned a 1982 245GL with m46 OD for eleven years - and worse still, I have the Chrysler ignition in a K-Jet, no less! My positive opinion of the K-Jet fuel delivery system has been formed from eleven years of trouble-free service. I attribute this trouble-free service mostly to the fact that I, as the second owner, continued the original owner's strict preventive maintenance habits. It has been my experience with the K-Jet variant that the K-Jet system is a highly machined and delicately balanced system that requires more of an interactive relationship between engine systems and the owner. This being said, the K-Jet system is, again, in my opinion, not for the the beginner or for the casual tinkerer (as you said). The knowledge base, as you say, has diminished greatly and steeply, recently. There are very few people outside of long-term K-Jet owners who know how to properly troubleshoot K-Jet problems. I am fortunate that this forum has many such people.

I recently found out about the steep decline in K-Jet knowledge and that even mechanics at so-called foreign car repair places didn't even know what a fuel distributor was. The rank-amateur that I am, I have forgotten more about the K-Jet system than they all knew - combined. After spending a fortune on their learning curve, they didn't know what they were doing and therefore, I paid for the man-hours it took them to learn - at $97.00 an hour, that education got pretty expensive). I learned from that incident that I could no longer depend on other mechanics to repair my Volvo....that I would have to increase my knowledge, hit the powerball lottery, or part-out the vehicle. After eleven+ years, my K-Jet Volvo is more like family. We have traveled across the country many times, loaded to the gunwales with kids,dogs,stray-petrified-french fries, and adventure. I have taken the total-immersion concept of learning any and all things related to keeping my k-Jet Volvo on the open road - which is where she belongs. You might think that that after such a tale of woe, that I would be tempted to slap the newer Volvos on the back in congratulation for their relative ease of maintenance and parts availability...but I'm not. I'm glad for their owners, who seem to enjoy the relative ease of fewer maintenance issues,but I am more glad for myself in that I have the time, means, and inclination to learn and master the increasingly arcane treasure of an exotic and masterfully designed fuel injection and delivery system - and besides, I'll be able to share that knowledge like our resident Volvo-sage, Art. I guess, to me, it isn't so much about which one is "better", it's about about "dancing with the one that brung ya."

Here,here!
Ive left that venue, but I do have fond memories. K-jet belongs in the auto engineering hall of fame. Absolutely.

On the other hand Ive grown use to driving my 90-240. I also take care of a 91-240 and 87-740. Ive owned a 78 240 & 82 240.
If you're looking for a daily driver that is easy to keep on the road, I would say the later models are the best.

If I were someone with lots of time and money, who wanted an interesting automotive experience, id definitely look to resurrect a k-jet car.
It seems almost sacreligious to have replaced such engineering with a computer.

The K-jets(78)(82) I owned for several years and many thousands of driven miles, the fuel systems were never touched. Nothing every went wrong. In the end, I was more intimidated by the idea of what "could" happen, and be unable to meet the challenge. I chose the easy way out.

L.

Hey SNB. First, my compliments on a well written and enjoyable post. K-jet eloquence, no doubt about it. The red meat was tossed out quite awhile ago, in all honesty, and I'm a bit surprised that you are the first to nibble at my somewhat derogatory K-jet comments. I thought someone would say something sooner.

IMHO, you really have hit the nail on the head. K-jet seems to work best for those who not only drive the cars daily (or close), but are ready to tinker and maintain regularly. I own and drive several 240s. If the K-jet cars don't get regular use...well...you know the problem.

I wholeheartedly agree with you: Drive them regularly--daily if possible. Learn the system, make notes, have the manuals, maintain them religiously, and for heavens sake, don't let them sit too long without running, and they'll be fine. But I'm going to swap the 245t to LH2.2 anyway. If I have to unbolt that silly CPR again, other than to remove it permanently, I'll spit. On the other hand, the Bertone's B21 w/K system seems fine and I'll probably leave that on there until I get around to putting a B230FT in the car.

Cheers! Enjoyed reading.

DS

You know, David, if you're going to go over to the "dark-side", you might want to let us know when you put up some of that K-Jet "force" for sale, because, as my previous post lays out, getting parts is getting more challenging. Don't scrap your old K-jet stuff, let it be an "organ donor". Happy driving, Dave, and by the way, I'll be for a replacement seat cushion or two after the first of the year - provided we still have an economy.

Here's to lasting to the first of the year, indeed!

As for K-jet goodies, you can be sure they will be duly posted for sale either here, turbobricks, or both. In fact I have a complete B21 sitting in the side yard now that's listed on CL.

Funny you should mention the dark side. Over on TB I've noted that term in connection with white blocks!

DS

David - thank for the laugh, and thanks for promising to let us...ahem...pick you K-Jet bones clean - lol!

I owned 2 '80s before they got totaled. Never had to work on the injection system. I really miss that hum the K-jet made - it always gave me a warm feeling on a cold morning.

Just couldn't resist...

kjet on the bench

(not my bench btw)

:)
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"A nickel isn't worth a dime anymore."

That looks like a contraption from the show "Criminal Minds"
--
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=53563&id=1189132524&l=75a2564d60

Thanks, Art, I appreciate the K-jet video. I was beginning to feel a little like Rodney Dangerfield with that respect thing - lol. Hey wait, maybe I don't feel like Rodney dangerfield after all...he's dead, I think!

Yuk yuk! We need a .gif cartoon of a fuel distributor saying, of course, "no respect, I get...". C'mon Art, if you can do the rotating ignition switch!

I agree, let's have the turning ignition switch.

You said you hate dealing with the harnesses, on 86-87. Why is that? Do they just have general durability problems or are there any specific issues? Also, does climate affect the wiring harness problems (wet, salt, etc.)

86-87 are the tail end of the infamous "biodegradable" harnesses. Insulation fails, leaving bare wires to make contact, sometimes buried inside the harness sheath. Very difficult to trace and/or repair. When I look at anything prior to '88, I'm always looking to see if the harness has already been replaced. Kudos to people like Dave Barton who make available upgrade harnesses for cars in need.

Out of what may be Volvo lore, or Volvo BS, I have this anecdote:

Years ago I spoke with someone on Volvo's tech staff here in the US (Covina, CA). This guy represented that Volvo, always concerned about environmental issues, was approached in the late seventies by a new vendor for harnesses. They offered an insulation material that would break down sooner in landfills and would, in recycling operations, come away from the wiring more easily. Volvo bit, and the rest is well known history. The insulation did indeed break down more quickly, especially in a hot engine bay. Very unfortunately, it did not break down fast enough to do so under warranty!

I would say that yes, climate does affect the insulation. All climates! I've worked on Eastern cars where the freeze/thaw probably fries the insulation. Out here in the desert, engine bay temps well over 150 probably don't help either!

DS

I live in northern ontario.Only harness i have ever seen disintegrate was on my84.5 244TI and only close to the turbo(@firewall)I still drive an 86 245 with
460,000km with no harness degradation. So i would say yes to the influence of climate
--
Rene

You know, Dave, I'm responding to these various posts in no particular order, so I'm all over the place. When I bought my (dare I say it - K-Jet Volvo) in July of 1999, I was completely clueless about...well...about most everything - including the eco-freako biodegradable wiring harnesses. A few years ago when I first heard about them, the complaints usually were accompanied by high engine heat caveats. I figured that I was "safe" without inspecting it, because the car had spent the bulk of it's existence in Washington state - where it seemed to me, that the harness - like the car - would more likely suffer from a mold, moss, and fungus infestation because of the cold....um...damp...weather. But, it seems, that my believing that was more to assuage my fears about the horror stories I'd heard about replacing them. So I procrastinated and patched the odd wire here and there. I did, however, hedge my fears with the purchase of an original OEM Volvo replacement harness (dark grey connectors) for the 1982 B21F-MPG - just in case. I was afraid, as most timorous "new" early model Volvo owners are about the day when we would have to "tear my engine apart" to put it in - or worse, pay someone else to do it. I recently put that harness in because the "plastic" wire coverings were crumbling so bad that it was virtually colored powder...oh, and it smelled like a box of crayons - like wax. My worry was unjustified about the install, because it went in easy - after the intake manifold was removed. As for your "anecdotal" story, sounds very plausible to me.

I see you're considering an '88, so an answer to your question may be moot.

Check out this page, if you're still curious about the harness question:

http://www.davebarton.com/volvoharnesses.html

As you scroll through it, it will become obvious Dave isn't feeding his family on harness sales, but keeping his site up for us to use as an excellent reference and historical perspective.

--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"If people don't want to come out to the ball park, nobody's gonna stop 'em."

How many cars with the original harness could possibly still be on the road? The one on my 1983 didn't make it to 1990. I remember when it failed- the car lost all power in an intersection. The replacement seems fine twenty years later.

Barton's site says the upgraded harnesses seem to hold up and he hasn't seen those needing replacement.

Let's say I found a 240 for sale from that era, what are the odds the original harness is somehow still in place in a running car?

Milpacheese,

As I've mentioned previously, I own a 1982. I purchased it from a Volvo dealership who had, just that week, received it as a trade-in for a new Volvo. The original owner was an anal-retentive Submarine Captain who cared for the car as if it were a matter of National defense. Every receipt for every single thing related to the car was handed to me in a box. This constant maintenance combined with the fact that the car spent most of it's life in the cooler Northwest climates, caused, in my opinion, the engine harnesses to last as long as they did - 28 years. I know that it was the original harness, because the firewall connectors were different shade of gray. The one I bought had the darker shade. Having said all this, I also have to say that my harness was probably the exception to the rule.

It is a shame that so many lovely Volvos went to the crusher because Volvo, so far as I know, never sent out recall notices about the defective harnesses, and many original owners just thought their cars were dead - and junked them - in fact, I think I shaved with part of one this morning!

I looked through all my documents, and I found only one recall notice for my year of Volvo - that recall notice was for the ignition switch which apparently had some kind of varnish or something on some of the terminals and could cause mysterious failures or fires. That's it, that's all the notices I could find. Hell, Volvo didn't even send out notices for my year for the ignition ICU needing pin sleeves, for heaven's sake! So I am not surprised that so many 200 series Volvo owners ended up ditching them when a new harness would have fixed everything. Volvo dropped the ball big-time on that one.

Let's say I found a 240 for sale from that era, what are the odds the original harness is somehow still in place in a running car?

Let me put my Jimmy the Greek hat on. Nah, can't find it, and it is easier just to ask the seller to open the hood.

Going by the frequency of volvo newbies showing up on the forums with rotten harnesses, I'd make the effort to check. Many haven't been replaced, but patched instead. I didn't replace this one-- just patched it well.



large pic of patch job


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Why do people pay to go up tall buildings and then put money in binoculars to look at things on the ground?

Art, it's hard to believe they can be patched for anything more than a temp fix, but if anyone could pull it off, it would be you!

If I could put the question to you, have you seen the upgraded harness need replacement in any you've come across, or are they holding up? Again, my upgraded harness has now been in place for more than 20 years. Should I be concerned?

No replacement harnesses have failed. You should not be concerned.

You're right about the patching. It depends on how well it is done. I expect mine was above average given my easy access to good materials and automotive electrical experience. The 84 shown was junked 100K later at 375K because of a tinworm infestation. I miss that car; I could take it anywhere, except maybe California, where customs would prevent me crossing the border with tinworm.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. -Mark Twain

don't forget your passport and visa when crossing the Californian border

thanks, good to know the upgraded wiring seems to hold up, beginning to stockpile parts for this car before it's too late and would prefer to save $$$ for other needs

Thoroughly enjoyed this. You are experienced indeed.

If you are asking because you are thinking of purchasing a car, I say that conditon and maintenance matters more. By this time the biodegrable wiring etc. will have been replaced by the previous owner if s[he] cared about the car.
Oil and fluid changes in general [coolant, brake, tranny] are preventive maintenance that equals a good used car. As are brakes and suspension that has been maintained when needed by competent mechanics

If you are asking as an academic question, I had a 79 wagon, it seemed more solid than the 87 240DL 5 spped and the 88 245GL automatic but the later had more zip, were quieter.

20 year old anything will require maintenance, the value of this board is the wealth of information from individuals who have done work themselves and are willing to share their experience and advice so you can diagnose and repair your own vehicle.

Hello,


I prefer my 1977 264 GL. I’m pretty biased though, because the only other 240 I’ve ever driven for any length is a 1977 242 DL.

In reality, what you are asking for is which model will give you the most trouble free operation. You must understand that the purchase of a automobile more then 10 years old WILL require maintenance and repair. I guess you could say you are buying a Volvo of a vintage. Just ask any of the 544/444/144 owners, cars break, and they need repair when things get old. If these owners had a shop repair every little thing...

If you are not prepared to work on the car yourself, then a car older then 10 years old may not be an appropriate investment for you.

Just an opinion for you to taste.


Goatman

Hey Goatman,

Thanks for the advice. I do know a little about what I'm getting into. I'm working on a '67 122 as a project car, but I want something a little more modern than that to drive everyday. My brother has a '89 DL wagon, and I've helped him some with that.

I guess my question was which of the years, if any, were known to be more reliable and, possibly more importantly, predictable. I've heard some bad things about chronic issues with 1985 240s, for example. All 87-89 wagons I've heard of didn't have major issues.

This could just be what I have been exposed to, but I'm wondering if there are any general trends in this regard. More specifically, have there been issues with the ABS added to post-1989 cars?

No ABS issues that I'm aware of.

Don't be misled by the ABS light being on. Normally it is simply rust on the sensor(s) due to age. Clean it off and you're good to go! My 93 850 had this problem.

ABS wasn't available until 91 (as an option) and was made standard on the 92 and 93's.

1990 was the first year for a driver's side airbag. 1990's for most part got the good computer. Most 89's have the potentially troublesome computer (pink label). Many people on this board seem to believe that the 1988's are the best pre-airbag/ABS cars.

Are there 240 GLT's? GL and GLT are basically the same. GL = Grand Luxury and GLT = Grand Luxury Touring. DL = DeLuxe. Many GL's have leather and most other 240 options. My 90 DL had factory sunroof, PL, PW, AC and cruise control, BUT cloth seats.

--
95 855 GLT Sportwagon, 90 244 DL 300k, 93 854 GLT - for sale

When I first got my '93 245, I noticed (by intentionally trying it out on an empty wet street) that the ABS wasn't working.

So I went through the very nice diagnostic procedure in my Bentley manual. I had a Bentley manual for my previous Jetta GLX, the section on the ABS brakes said simply 'take it to the dealer >:^( Perhaps they assume an old Volvo driver has more mechanical aptitude?

In any case, about 30 minutes with a multimeter and I'd found only two faults with the ABS system. First was a blown fuse on the surge protector under the passenger seat. And secondly (looking at you, previous owner!) someone had take out the warning light in the dash.

Fixed those two things, it's worked perfectly since.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)

86-89 wasn't the greatest time for VOlvo 240's. They had skinny rod motors - not really an issue with stock HP levels, but Volvo went back to thicker rods for a reason on the later cars (although they kept the longer rod length). They also had 'biodegradable' engine wiring during that time period - notable for the tendency to crumble off and leave bare shorting wires after a decade or two of exposure to heat and oil.

IMO the 240 simply got better bit by tiny bit as production went on. Somewhere in 87 or 88 they seemed to get better rust proofing. In 90 they went back to the stronger engines. ABS was added, and a drivers airbag. And the very last year of production, 93, got factory R134a with a pusher fan in front of the A/C condensor to make it work better.

To many, the 80 85 cars are the best. The 240 was the flagship model then. You could get a coupe. They made a factory Turbo model. But, for better or worse, those are all K-Jet. Which is rather robust, tough, simple, etc, but rather crude and hard to understand/repair/modify.

So other than the lack of a coupe model, and the lack of a factory turbo option (look to Turbobricks for articles on how to '+t' a non turbo engine), they got better bit by bit, excluding the skinny rod, rotting wire years.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)

Some small corrections John,

Upgraded wiring and the larger rods came in early '88, otherwise right on. Engines with the larger rods have a "K" on the sticker on the timing chain cover.

--
Dave Shannon
Durango, CO
'67 1800s
'88-240
My Volvo Pages

Also, I was wondering what the different trim levels mean, for example GLT. I've seen a lot of DL's but only read descriptions of "240 GL" or "245 GLT".

You may have already noticed, but it's amazingly easy to get parts for these cars!