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what's a good way to repair a pre-heat hose (from exhaust to air box) that got a crease, and ripped right by the bend area? some kind of tape? clamps? another piece over/under, then clamped?... what has worked for you all?... BTW, i know they are cheap enough, but i'm looking for cheaper right now. and quicker
--
'89 245 DL B230 Manual
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$17 from FCP for a new one, if you can't afford that, you can't fill the tank.
jorrell
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92 245 299.3K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!
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If the hose for a 240 is the same as for a 740, I have a supply of never-used hoses. Just that I don't know what size fits which. E-mail me direct and I'll send you one, you pay shipping.
My solution to the smog test inspection is to leave the hose in place but not connected to the exhaust manifold connection point; just hanging down below. Hook it up only when taking car in for the emissions test.
Good Luck,
Bob
:>)
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Points on un-installment definitely taken.. i might try that new silicone tape stuff... i think it's called "rescue tape." If that doesn't hold, i might just remove it, or get a newish one.
--
'89 245 DL B230 Manual
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If you keep it, make sure that thermostat works - when the car's warm, it should be covering the pre-heat inlet. Otherwise you're stuck in hot-air only mode.
Nice idea with the soda can.
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
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So, that requires getting the car warm, then taking apart the air box and looking to see if it's open or closed, then re-installing? Not that i don't enjoy doing that, but as we all know it's sometimes a bear/two person job to correctly seal that air box together.
Unless you want to do it the wrong way, and just snap it together, so the outer is hanging over the top of the air box. (the way it's spaced makes it look right) which by the way is one of my pet peeves. i'm always impressed by the number of mechanics/Volvo nuts that are surprised when i tell them the inner part actually fits inside, (and all the way around) of the outer part, making a proper seal. I can't tell you how many 240s i've seen where that's wrong.. anyways.
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'89 245 DL B230 Manual
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Hmm.
I was about to say yes, but now that I think about it, the airbox won't ever see temps above ambient (except when the thermostat is stone cold).
Someone might know what temp the airbox thermostat closes, but I imagine it should be closed around 60 or 70F. You might be able to pull out the air filter and point a blowdryer at it. If it moves, it probably works all right.
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
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iirc, thermostat should be completely closed (full cold air to the engine) at 10 celcius. it begins to open at 5 celcius.
unless i live in swedish climate i'd pitch every one of them. just did it on a newly acquired v70.
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For clarity's sake:
10C = 50F
5c = 41F
If you rarely or never see weather below 40F, I'd tear that sucker out. The flap itself makes a rather nice plug.
Happy Bricking
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
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See how close in diameter an aluminium beer/soda can is. It may be slightly larger but you can snip perpendicular cuts every 1/2 inch around the circumference so it can be reduced. Then use the foil tape used for HVAC to connect the portion of the can to the pipe and the airbox. Duct tape doesn't hold up under heat, spring for the foil.
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Best way to fix that is to... not fix it.
Unless you see <30F daily during several months of the year, I would remove that hose. It is there to help provide faster warm-up, but it more of a threat than a benefit.
You could use metal foil tape to patch the hose. If you want to keep it, you need to replace the thermostat in the airbox. It will fail to only intake hot air eventually, which will destroy your AMM(air mass meter).
My advice: Tear off the whole metal preheat tube. Disassemble the airbox thermostat. Cram the thermostat flap into the warm intake hole.
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
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posted by
someone claiming to be dorko
on
Tue Oct 19 16:57 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Unless you are in a supercold area you dont really need that hose expcept maybe to pass smog. otherwise, try duct tape. next is try a salvage yard.
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well new york gets cold enough.
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'89 245 DL B230 Manual
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I've removed it from all the 240I've owned, never an issue.
Ricko from upstate.
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I don't think I can freely talk about or give advice concerning what is now a federal crime.
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A wha? Since when? What, is it considered "removing smog components"?
If you know something, share it. Nobody expects that people here are professional mechanics or lawyers.
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
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Unless I'm nuts, any tampering with any smog devise on any car having factory equipment so installed is a federal crime. And in this age of ever increasing federal, state and local, pollution control agencies, all with their own regs, laws and fines,........
I would first determine if I had to get inspected annually, and if not proceed as if you own the car, it's yours!, and save everything for the regs coming down the pike as old cars are the easiest target for the enviro-freaks to collect fines and inspection fees.
Some states collect so much revenue they can no longer afford to forgo the easy tax and fine income for the state. By the by, states and feds are going after farmers like bees to honey for the same reasons, the environment! Big fines for manure in wrong places, 45K as a beginning point. Oh this is just getting into gear.
This month's Hot Rod mag has several disturbing takes on what the Feds/States are up to concerning the final blow to backyard mechanics/car crazy dudettes and crazy high CAFE standards.
Cars are viewed by government as cash cows. Everybody uses them, so WTH, let's fee them to death, tax them, regulate them, cause there are a lot of them around and look at the dough that we get out of the workers!
If governments continue the Marxist march throughout our society, as stated before, community organizer kids fulfilling their community service award classwork will be seen coming up yer driveway with the "garage polution warrants" in their little green fists.
Almost everything in yer house, under the sink, in yer bed, yer bathroom, the backyard, certainly the garage, under the step in the basement, can be said to be "toxic". Why? you ask? It's all part of the big plan.
Like said before, keep head down, look stupid, act as if yer injured, limp, say what everytime asked a question, and keep that volvo running sweet.......and don't forget, "everything is political".
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re: "...Unless I'm nuts, any tampering with any smog devise on any car having factory equipment so installed is a federal crime...."
Actually, the law specifies commercial shops (dealers, garages, repair shops, etc.) as being subject to sanctions (and only on cars operated on the public roads), not an individual owner. As an individual owner, you can do whatever you want because the *federal* regulations leaves it to the states to enforce regs on individual, or private, owners (e.g., through their inspection programs). Thus, if you take a vehicle and keep it unregistered or unlicensed (e.g., to just run around on your private property such as your million acre cattle ranch, ha, ha; or, for that matter, you want to modify your new car for the local drag races and will only tow your car to the dragstrip rather than drive it; in either case without ever operating it on the public roads -- i.e., the state's jurisdiction -- you're home free, and there's nothing the feds or the state will or can do to you.
And if you live in a state (or an area of a state) that's free of emissions inspection (as rare as that is, nowadays), again you're free to do whatever you want -- just don't ask a commercial business to do the work for you (although in such a state, it's hard to think that there would be any practical enforcement).
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Yes, in a few states some legislatures have not seen any monetary advatage to taxing those least able to afford annual pollution check-ups, driving the only older affordable cars. Which is laudable.
But as others have posted, in states that do check-ups, all systems on older cars must be up to federal regs as per how that vehicle came from the factory.
In my state, when check-ups were still being done, they checked the exhaust, the cat., under the hood. If I didn't pass I had to get it fixed and return for another check. There was a limit to how many times yer car could not pass and it would not be licenced for the road.
Of course, off road is not yet in their radar. However, a few more off road accidents like the one that killed several spectators this year, and the bureaucrats will have a new target. Don't think for a moment that the "smoke and dust" at drag races are an acceptable social standard for the environment and the common weal of the people.
By 2014 the EPA, under the guidance of its radical appointed czar is going after much stricter CAFE standards for three-quarter ton 150s, Rams and Silverados; and of course all over the road heavy duty tractors, buses and dumpers.
Not that it matters to those who aren't watching.
I wouldn't be at all surprized, for owners of older cars, if there will be, under this EPA, some kind of "sneaked into another bill" stringent investigation as to how dirty older cars can be eliminated, for the environment. Basically that's what the "cash for non-clunkers" was about. I wonder how many bricks bit the dust on that one.
Next year NASCAR, correct me if wrong, is moving toward ethanol eliminating 97 octane racing fuel. Again, on the theory that humans are causing the earth to warm, which of course is good news for government bureaucrats and their careers, all at a higher cost to us the workers.
All of this is of no concern until it finally comes into each of our lives and we step back and scream "what?, I'm getting fined because some jacked up greenie went through my garbage and found a rag I use to check my oil?"
Some cars already have no dipstick. All regs are incremental, drip drip drip, like an IV.
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Vrollllllllllllllllvo,
All post 1975 vehicles used on public roads should be subject to quantitative emissions testing.
ALL vehicles requesting registration should be required to pass a visible smoke test unless qualified as an antique with on road mileage limits.
Your dusk is our dawn, and I don’t want people like you ripping a poison cloud next to the playground.
Fix it or junk it!!! Can’t afford it? Ride a bike or take the bus.
Yes, drag racers on public roads are criminals.
Goatman
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Getting into political/philosophical issues here - probably needs to shift over to "Opinions", but too much knee-jerk emotion vs. logic there!
Anyhooo...my feeling: if it cannot pass an emissions test it should NOT be licenced as a daily driver, period. Antique and special interest cars here in BC can get a restricted "Vintage" licence plate that allows for car shows, club outings, etc. and that's all. IMHO, that should be the only place old "smokers" are allowed.
Ordinary registered vehicles should be tested biennially for compliance with emissions for the year of manufacture; if not in compliance, fixed or junked.
Your particular economic circumstances do not convey a right to pollute the air my kids and I am breathing.
--
Bob: son's 81-GL, dtr's '94-940, my 83-DL, 89-745(V8) and 98-S90. Also 77-MGB and some old motorcycles.
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My point is simply that we have reached a point of no greater return for time and dollars invested, with the now piled on stacks of irrevocable local, state and federal, air quality regualtion in Western society.
That's it. Others may well enjoy getting pushed around needlessly by bureaucrats with Napoleanic complexes. Environmentalism is a political device used by such people, in my experience, to force the majority to shut up and get in line. Air is clean enough as it stands today. Get these bureacrats back to productive work at a Mickey Ds.
Clarity of differences of opinion is useful inasmuch as it may expose either side to thinking critically of itself.
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Hey man, I'm an analytical chemist. Don't tell me how clean the air is. I know what's in there. It's apparently not possible for you to believe that people who want to regulate pollution actually care about the planet, and want to preserve some of it for following generations. I'm not going to try and convince you. Maybe you don't have kids, or grandkids, but unless you're completely selfish you ought to give a damn about how carelessly we've fouled the nest.
I don't happen to agree with all the regulations imposed on me, either. But there's so many people in the world today, and so many more coming, that it's time to start analyzing the situation rationally and figuring out how to continue to survive, plain and simple.
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The world is not in a survival mode concerning the quality of air.
And just when you think the air has been purified enough, whatever that level may be, and we're wearing rags living in caves, breathing perfectly purified air by law, a Krakatoa blows or a humongous asteroid crashes into earth and all the grief angst and taxpayer treasure......
to remove the last molecule of carbon from the air, is all for naught.
The earth we live on cannot be purified, sanctified, held static. Get used to it. It never was perfect and imperfect humans can never make it so. Chemists may be able to analyze air but they must first establish to what levels and to what extent polititcs are allowed to infringe.
And now, what was that level at which we can finally stop lowering whatever compounds from the air? When is that perfect level at which all can be held forever reified? That's what we need to know so that govenments, at that point, can finally stop wrecking the place.
And what about the chemical compounds being pumped into the air from the production of ethanol? Talk about paradox! We're not sure today this ethanol thing is cleaner than simply burning straight unleaded regular.
Not to mention it takes seven barrels of oil to produce eight barrels of ethanol, and then it is mixed with, don't laugh, unleaded regular!, to clean the air???
Not to mention the largest aquifer in the Midwest is being depleated by, you guessed it, ethanol plants! And the mash is fed to cows that fart!!
So there you have it, government wonks solving our "air quality" problem with the help of government funded skientists and taxpayer subsidized ethanol plants! And I won't go into the horribly filthy production of lithum batteries for Obama's "green?" cars.
If kids were dropping dead from compounds released by automobiles, the entire baby boomer generation would have died by 1970.
It's great we had a chance to talk about this topic, thanx to the heat riser question.
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Just to add to what you said;
Years ago in NYC we had Garbage trucks each manned by 3 men.The City got the union to agree to 2-man trucks in exchange for a 40$ bonus for each man.
Then came recycling ! Now we have 2 trucks of 2 men each now making a $100 bonus per man.
1 truck for glass ,plastic & recycling paper(2 men)
a 2nd truck for everything else (2 men)
So now we have the expense of 2 trucks with 4 men (from 1 truck, 3 men & the $100 bonus each plus the fact that most recycling is not cost effective any how.
That s Gov't for ya' !
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Same weird occurance in our "recycling program". Many years ago when collecting newsprint for Boy Scout fundraising, I advocated the city recycle since it obviously was a commercial product with value, ergo, recycling could be profitable, for the city, thus lowering our taxes by providing a revenue source.
Now, decades later, with the unwise guidence by government stupidos, our recycling goes on for the profit of garbage collection companies submitting the lowest bid, to collect the recyclables, and I get charged, can you believe it?, 15 dollars tacked onto my garbage bill, for sorting my own garbage!
And the collector gets to keep the recyclables and sell them at market prices, kicking back to the city through the bidding process.
Hell, I should have just sent the city another check.
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Just to add too. I’m aware this is in the wrong place for this chat.
You forgot to mention that the trucks pick up the cans now.
In near by towns to mine, they get $8 more an hour than in my town and my collectors don't have the trucks that pick cans up for them.
I also provide the can and they provide the recycle plastic box.
Of course they plan on changing the can deal but will raise the cost to us by 15 percent.
Now get this.
We had a local prominent company, the largest employer in the county next to the government jobs, under bid the holder of the present contract (that's in S.F. Calif.) and still lost it. They won even with having to buy new trucks (included in their proposal) because they didn't have them.
There was a raucous later at a town meeting but the supervisor's admitted they had lots of trouble making the decision. They judged the contracts by a point system and the local company still was under by one point.
Apparently they wanted some sort of spread and still would not rescind their stance on the issue. People that came to the meeting didn't bring forth enough "new" information to sway their decision. I was dismayed.
The economy has hurt the local company over the years and they have diversified to stay alive until the housing market turns around. In the process they have had to cut benefits and make some layoffs. Those embittered people cried that they might do the same thing if they got the trash deal. They think S.F. Recology is dropping big bucks for the labor force here. Duh! They have had the contracts for years and we are "not" up to any kind of apparent standard yet, except the fees!
The pollution is politics that smells worse everyday. I like the kid in the Haines’s sock commercials "sick of it"! He’s says it perfectly for me.
Politicians, I say fire them all, hire them back as needed, one at a time! Then they come to office with one suit coat and two pair of trousers. When the seats wear out in the trousers, so does their elected seat! That will encourage them not to sit down very much.
I’ll stop posting here on this, I’m way off base. Venting before the elections, Sorry!
Phil
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Phil,
I think someone got paid to do the wrong thing. Was the point system ever explained in detail?
Goatman
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Hi Goatman, You think so...$$$$
I'll try to keep this short because this isn't about cars.
I do not know details, other than it was part of the bidding process. Portions had points assigned to the requirements portion as a rating process.
It appeared the incumbent collector lost by one point somewhere but the emotions of the supervisors had their own points. They wanted to some how justify, that the present company, had done a good job and that one point was not enough of a winning spread, to shift the company out.
This was a special meeting called forth (by one supervisor) because of the flack of phone calls and emails they ALL received. I heard one member say something to the affect of not having a dog in this race. Of the five, I noticed the others declined to make that statement. The supervisor, who had raised a fuss to get the special meeting, said nothing too.
I think the remark was aimed at someone in the audience who put up money to help fight her election, sometime earlier. I’m not sure if that left three in question or not!
I caught this other idea during the meeting.
Another small private company bidder from, who takes care of another small town, wanted the recycle to go with theirs. They lost straight up because the revenue from recycle would leave our town totally and the newly built transfer station would not be utilized. (A side note here...... The prominent company offered some land for a very low price but the county decided to pay 500k to have it, just down the road from that place.)
The prominent company was going to keep recycle here in the county to support the company. Keeping it in town and creating jobs is what this company has been able to do by diversifying. This company has been here in timber products for more than 20 years that I know of. They promoted a fish fertilizer outlet in the past. This all made sense to me. (Another one of those side notes...... about ten years ago the company opened a factory in S.C. If it were not for that factory they would have to close this one because they are losing about a $500k a year to keep this coast supplied with product despite cutbacks.)
My neighbor is a supervisor here. He only tells me a little. It’s a small town.
It was amazing how people (business types included) stood up and would imply that they heard this or that with out giving up facts or names. No one dared to step up or accuse anyone. It was a public meeting and the small town syndrome, at work.
It was here, I started getting "sick of it".
I think this proposal messed with a non bidder that presently handles the recycle for the S.F. Recology Company. I think he had influence somewhere!
The three month price has gone up this summer to about $98 and still without changes to the service. I hear that it costs less than S.F. service but I do not know it to be true. I know it isn't as fancy here, or the wages. Our cost for the contract increased 5 million dollars over the next three years. Room for competitors, I'd say.
We were almost two years into their last three year contract before they provided the plastic bucket and truck for the recycle run.
This has come out after the meeting. Guess that was not "new" information that anyone thought about. I didn't realize it either.
Hope this answered that question.
Forgive me, but I've got to write something healthier, for my belief system.
Phil
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Kharich, I don't have kids but that last paragraph summed it up in a nut shell!
Too many people trying to get to the feeding trough. All about who is willing to tuck in their elbows to make room, so more people can be made. That's what going to happen. I have seen it all my life . How about anyone else, hello?
Seven billion itchy crotches, I think might qualify humans for not being on a endangered list or is that backwards?
I still see many good looking Volvos about. I see far many more cars run down by poor maintainance, that are half the age of the 200's cars.
A reason for this, the 85 dollars an hour, for a guessing mechanic. It's hard to keep up with all the "new" technolgies and their now claimed "required" diagnostic equipment, with their payments! These new cars that are just rolling boat payments for the industry, all said and done, IMHO.
Then there is the built in "paymentitis" virus. Goes full blown around five years down the road. Goes along with the ones of infamous Microsoft Co. Now those things are now displayed so eloquently as dashboard gadgets. Ripe for for the midnight auto bunch, to eyeball too.
Oh yes, the bank required insurance until paid for. The accessory without the interest included, as the others, in my cars operational expense. Wow, I almost forgot the other reason for my beater. Beats the L out of that scenario.
Yow! Just what I want. Hello, ON STAR, where are we going here? Wait, Wait a minute, I got to find the translator button, a car wash trainee must have put it on female Asian or just Chinese, then again it maybe its the default setting?
AH, swell! Garage or computer shop next? Talking about doing the two step and I'm not even from Texas!
Choices are still abundent in the USA! Heads up, for which line keeps you out of the soup.
Phil
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Wow, all politics aside, I KNOW there is a visible "present/tampered/removed" check for CA, which includes my EGR system and all its components. I don't know if there is one for my pre-heat hose. I sure hope not. I could put in one in, but I'm sure not going to open the hot side of the thermostat back up. The thermo had failed on the car when I got it, and it had a fried AMM...
Happy Bricking, however you do it.
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
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Both our 240's had California stints in their history and the preheat hose is definitely part of the emissions check. I had pulled the one on my son's 81 off the air filter housing because I suspected the 'stat had failed. The tech spotted this and put it back on before the sniffer test. Car passed, I drove around the corner and removed the hose.
Got a new stat and reinstalled the hose. Still in there 7 years later and working fine. I use a little indoor/outdoor thermometer once in a while to check the airbox function in all our Volvos. We live north of the 49th now - some winter days get real cold. You can see the airbox temp start warming up from ambient within a few seconds of startup.
BTW, the preheat hose does not speed engine warmup (coolant temp) in any significant way, it's there to promote better fuel vaporization than you would get with very cold air, and this gives slightly more complete combustion and lowers unburned HC emissions.
--
Bob: son's 81-GL, dtr's '94-940, my 83-DL, 89-745(V8) and 98-S90. Also 77-MGB and some old motorcycles.
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"....it's there to promote better fuel vaporization than you would get with very cold air, and this gives slightly more complete combustion and lowers unburned HC emissions."
Oh, cool!
"I had pulled the one on my son's 81 off the air filter housing because I suspected the 'stat had failed."
Oh. #@*^&!
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
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Politics aside; If you're driving a 200 series it's old. That means a few things-the percentage of old gross-polluting cars diminishes dramatically with each passing year. Making cars that last forever is not in the interest of car-makers. Imagine an old Lincoln or Caddy that gets 4mpg. It pollutes worse than a new car but if you've been driving it for 50 years that's about 6,8, maybe 10 new cars that weren't produced and weren't scrapped. You know how much energy is involved in producing, marketing and transporting new 'throw-away' cars right? Not to mention that it makes up less than a fraction of a percentage point of autos. The older your car gets the further ahead of the game you are. Keep it in the best shape you can and drive it 'till you can drive no more. Then be buried in it.
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I think we understand each other quite well.
The part about being buried in it sounds a little over the top or morbid for me though. The cars and I will go in a stove sooner or later.
Conserving and preserving really can only go so far.
The game as you mention, is living within your means and the karma of the earth’s inhabitants. The human’s species are the wild cards. Nature plays with fixed laws and rules, humans don’t with our so called intelligence.
I’m just in the game with ever changing number of game pieces, hopefully being happily entertained and get to play a long time. While all the time side stepping the chemistry of numerous free radicals.
Phil
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Yes, I know all about how, as the regs reduce what "experts" funded by government grants check for molecules per billion, environmental investigators can find miniscule amounts of whatever, investigations fit the latest reductions.
And the question remains, is there any level of anything that cannot be labled "harmful" to humans? And how do we know when we finally arrive at that level if the bar for political advantage is constantly being lowered as a device to advance a crisis, for political advantage?
REmember Clinton days before leaving office by executive order simply dropping the level of, was it lead or arsenic? in water, to a level lower than actually naturally occurs in nature?
Environmentalism is a political devise, like GLSMFT, race baiting, crisis mongering, class warfare, global cooling, global warming, climate ho-hum change, the no-peace movement, the stop the war movement, the dirty and expensive production of ethanol, the alphabet soup balkanization of society, lying in general about everything, add yer own......
As for the heat riser pipe, I simply wrapped duct tape around mine, gets kind of raggedy, but lasts for several years. IPD sells a new one, looks real nice.
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Yes, all three pre-'75 cars are wrecking the crazy greenies wet dream.
Talk about crisis mongering, it's the green-everything hell be damned attitude that gives us, ironically, a "new old dawn"?
This new green dawn?, exactly when can we expect it's goals to be achieved?
In my town of 60,000, to my exacting count, I have seen but one other 240, a '90 model.
Even if these two bricks sat outside a school all day smoking it would be less of an environmental alarm than facist regs now being rammed down our collective throats.
And the regs are never enough, they always get stricter because how else can a bureaucrat justify his bloated double the common working stiff paycheck and benefits? Simple, just keep scaring the bejeebers out of the workers.
Just when we think we have scrubbed our world clean of every conceivable "toxin", we'll discover that our very bodies are toxic! And I suppose the answer then will be, check past history, killing everyone!
There are actually people today who advocate, go figure, the elimination of humans for the preservation of the "earth"! Maybe that's where this envirnomentalism is headed as it seems much more a political device than a rational approach the common rational use of the world and its resources.
Isn't it of great relief that we always have a bunch of elected for life humans who control our lives even when the theories are so much hot air? which is the pollution we should be much more concerned about.
So this new dawn, a siren song, is really just an old idea that has throughout history tantalized humans. This attempt to rub out "damn spots" has been around long before Shakespear, and I fear will be around long after we dead.
The earth, the human condition cannot be perfected. I think our environment is about as clean as it needs to be, excepting China, India and Eastern Europe/Russia. Good job, now let's get back to removing the government boot from our necks and allowing markets to create jobs.
And for God's sake, leave the four dozen Volvos alone the exhaust of which together couldn't kill a vole.
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At least it's not mentioned in Bentley Chapter 253, Emission Control.
So move along officer (not you, Ken). Nothing to see here.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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