I sure could use some help on my newly accquired 30 year old 242. I've corrected some of the bad wiring (ran new wires to the Alt. and oil pressure terminals), installed a new rebuilt Alt. changed spark plugs, and wires, installed a new main fuel pump, (I can hear the in-tank humming), bought a new battery, changed all he belts, I had some allignment problems , but I worked them out , and they seem OK now.So today after installing the main fuel pump and installing a new battery I hoped to go for a ride, but No. It will start and run for about 5 seconds and quit. I checked the polarity on the fuel pump and it's OK.If anyone can give me some help, I sure could use some . Or, does anyone know where I can get somne help in the Huntsville AL area. ( I'm working here temporarily. Thanks, Joe. See the picture of my 242 on Brick Pic's dated Aug. 10Th

Joe,

If nothing else is working out for you, I had a weird snag with my 82 GLT a few years ago when the sensor coil around the distributor would open when the car was warmed up and then reset itself when it cooled off. I found it only when my mechanic of the day installed another distributor temporarily and the car ran. My car would just cut out in midstream but most of the time it would just not start when I came out from shopping and the car was still warm. Let it sit for a half hour and it would start again and run

Just an off the wall idea if you are not getting any success from the other ideas you have received so far.

Bob

Joe-

There are several things you should check out. I always split running problems into two parts-spark and fuel.

Spark is the easiest.

Do you have spark while cranking?

Do you have spark after you get it running?

You can run 12V to the + side of the coil. The ballast resistor just drops the volt while running so not to overheat the coil. It's ok to apply 12V to it for a short period of time. I have just run 12V from the battery to the coil without a problem

From what I remember, while cranking, the starter (during position III) does supply 12V to the coil. If the second power has been disconnected, then the car will start during cranking, then die when the key goes from position III to II.

You can use a test light (real cheap probe you get at the auto part store) like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/12-Volt-Circuit-TEST-LIGHT-w-Clamp-wiring-tools-wire-/170549723558?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27b58e41a6

Ground one end, and hit the + side of the coil. It should be bright when the ignition is on, and flash when cranking and running.

Have you used a timing light to make sure the car is timed? It can also help to tell if the ignition system is firing.

Does the fuel pump relay cycle? Starts up when cranking and turns off a few seconds after cranking.

If that all checked out, fuel side might be a problem.

I had the same problem with a '81 245/B21 car a couple of months ago. It would start up, then died. It turned out to be a stuck open plunger on the fuel distributor. I had a spare one, so I just exchanged them out instead of cleaning the one in the car. Poor startup can be the warmup regulator too.

Let me know about the spark side first, then we can go from there.

Have you looked at K-jet.org site. Greenbooks and other documents.

http://www.k-jet.org/articles/information/k-jet-debugging-guide/

You can try over on Turbobricks.com too. I saw this one a while ago:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=218050

The non-performance discussion section can give you some help.

Paul

B21F with stock Kjet?

Paul, Yes B21F with stock Kjet. I have replaced the spark plugs , and wires. The plugs that were in the car when I got it looked OLD. Joe

Hey Joe,

You got a lot of good info from Paul, but I thought I'd toss out some things from my experience to consider when you get better working conditions. For now I'm going to assume you have spark, but lose fuel (probably from the Cold Start Valve) when you let off on the key.

On a 240 turbo I once forgot to secure the airflow boot and got symptoms like yours when I tried to start it days later. It would fire on the cold start valve, then die because there was no suction to lift the airflow plate, which meant no Control Plunger lift and thus no fuel to the injectors.

So that's one way to get a crank-fire-die. Another is when the Airflow plate cant lift the plunger, such as:

a) the plunger is stuck (down) due to lack of use and old/bad gas

b) a clogged Warm Up Regulator (aka Control Pressure Regulator) is keeping System pressure on the plunger (instead of the lower regulated Control Pressure).

You can test for "a" by taking the air duct off the airflow meter and reach in with e screwdriver (or your social finger) and try lifting the Sensor Plate Lever. If the fuel system hasn't been pressurized for hours, it should lift easily and drop with a bounce or two.

If you've tried starting recently, residual control pressure on the plunger could resist (but maybe not positively block) upward plate movement.

(b) same test, but upward resistance would be felt immediately, with no plate movement possible at all. Full System pressure on the plunger will lock it down solid.

New Pump: You checked wiring polarity, but I guess you couldn't check for cranking voltage, working solo. In that case, I'd connect a 12V Test light (use the alligator clip on the pump terminal, and jumper wire the probe tip to a ground) that can be seen by looking back out the door while cranking.

You could also test pump operation (bypassing main fuse #7 and the Fuel relay) with a jumper wire connecting the LEFT side (input) contacts for fuses 5 and 7. Both pumps should run immediately. If they do, try starting and see if things at least change. It may not run perfectly because the bypass jumper doesn't activate the Lambda system circuits.

Fuel Pump relay must haves (back-probe at relay harness plug):

• Fuse #7 voltage on relay terminal 30 (Voltage input)
• Fuse #13 Key On voltage at relay terminal 15 (12V for relay coil)
• Cranking pulses on relay terminal 31 (from Ignition coil negative, terminal 1)

That's all that comes to mind right now.


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Tonight I removed the in-tank pump.The return hose/tubing was found disconnected at the top of the pump, and the out-put hose, I could take off by pushing it off the fitting, even with the clamp on it. No strainer was attached to the bottom. There are two very thin wires( look like telephone wires) attached to the pump mounting screw and go up and out a vent port, and do nothing. (Mystery).The black hose between the pump and the metal tubing looks pretty bad. I checked the pump at my battery with jumper wires and it runs. But since I have it out I will be replacing it with a new one. Hopefully on the weekend I can siphon out the tank and see whats in the bottom, and also take a look at the FI partsunder the hood. Take a look at the BRIC PICS photo's dated today 10-13-2010. I put a picture of the pump that I removed. (It's easy to up load a picture there, I haven't been able to post them with this message.) Thanks again to ALL that have given there time to help. But it's not over yet.Joe

Thank you Paul for the reply. Some additional info;After fixing wiring / insulation problems, vacuum lines, new alternator, I could get the car started. It would start, kind of hard, but with favoring the gas peddle I could keep it running. It would run better after a while, and I could keep it running for a half hour or more, and get it up to full tempeture OK. But it would get a little rough if I tried to let it idle.Once, I got it to idle OK after a while and tried to take it for a ride, but after the driveway, when I tried to accelerate it died.(When I bought the car in July ,in Georgia, I drove the car about 400 feet, to put it on a tow-dolly, didn't run very well.)Here's my latest theroy, I replaced the main fuel pump with a new proper spec type. Since then I can't keep it running.The one that I removed didn't fit properly (smaller body) and the hose connection from the pump to the accumilator was all screwed-up with extra fittings and tubing.But it said 95 PSI on the pump. So I think that the old pump was more powerful then the new main pump. I think my problems are the pumps. I took the cover off, for the in-tank last night. But could't budge the ring/ collar. I don't have the correct tool. But I'll try a little harder, next chance I get. Thanks , Joe (To make matters worse, I'm temporarly staying in a RV park , while working a temporary job assignment in Alabama. I live in Florida, so I have limited tools and resources here.)

Ok- Seems the spark side is good (working). Did you replace any ignition pieces (spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor - you can check the condition of the cap/rotor/wires with an ohm meter)? Bad igintion components can make a car run poorly. Did you check the timing?

Make sure your ignition side is tuned as good as possible before moving on. If you're chasing a fuel problem when you have ignition problems, you can fix the fuel problem and still think you have a fuel problem.

To me, it sounds like a bad warmup regulator (fuel pressure regulator). It really has two functions; one to lower the fuel pressure during warmup and the other is maintain fuel pressure. If the car runs really poorly cold and runs better when it warms up, it's more than likely the warmup regulator.
There is a procedure on testing the warmup regulator involving hooking up pressure gauges.

Sometimes you can get away with just removing the screen and cleaning the warmup regulator. Removing the warmup regulator isn’t fun (I always worry about losing the copper gaskets). I would suggest removing the distributor (stuff some paper towels in the hole) to get to it, if you decide to.

A rebuilt one is $275 (you can get 10% off $100 or more and free shipping with the code: TBCC):

http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exec/product_id/5288/nm/1978_1980_Volvo_240_Warm_Up_Regulator/category_id/149

Paul

Joe ..
You asked me a shop in Huntsville. Sorry, buddy ...I do not.
--
' Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst. '' (C S Lewis ; on Evil Men) 89 764 (170K), '94 940T (265K), 92 245 (150K)

If it starts fine but cuts out after a few seconds it may be the ballast resistor, assuming you have one. There's a start circuit which bypasses the BR (and gives full voltage to the plugs) and a run circuit which goes through the BR. The run circuit may be disconnected at the BR.

Look for a solid white rod about 1/2" thick and 4" long with spade connectors, on the right strut hump under the hood hinge.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.

Thanks for the info. I have seen the ballist resistor. How can I check it ? Or should I just replace it? Thanks, Joe

You can check the resistance or continuity of the ballast resistor with an inexpensive multimeter. However, the suggestion is that there is a problem in the wiring. Wiring diagrams are available at kjet.org. The ballast resistor is switched out of the circuit for more spark during cranking by contacts in the starter solenoid. You could just put a jumper across the resistor temporarily. The coil will overheat if you rum for long this way.

I would suspect a fuel flow problem. There is a cold start injector that sprays during cranking. After firing it switches off and the main injectors take over assuming they are working. You can check the main injectors by removing them with hoses still connoted and inserting them in plastic bottles to catch the fuel. You the have the jumper certain fuses to make the pumps run without starting the engine. The air meter can then be checked at the same time by moving it manually.

Tonight I checked the ballast resistor. I cleaned the dirty terminals and with the key on engine not running ( of course) the voltage on the side with one terminal is 12.9, while the voltage on the side with the two spade terminals is 8.9 volts. So this is normal. The car still acted the same when trying to start It fires right up , and sounds great for a couple of seconds, then dies. I have a gas filter on order, that will be in on Friday. Joe.

I have a 79 242. One thing that gave me terrible trouble for several years was the in-tank fuel pump. Both main and tank pumps failed, so I replaced both with proper spec parts. The car continued to hesitate and buck upon acceleration, even immediately after changing both pumps. Finally, the owner of the Model Garage in Berkeley told me that they never had enough pressure when they used the original spec in tank pump. He told me to use the higher pressure pump from the 740 series, which needs minor alteration to fit the bracket. Ever since I made that change the car has run better than ever, with more pep and acceleration. This may not be the only answer to your problem, but it may help someday.

Thanks for your reply.The info is very interesting. First of all , I have not been driving this car since I bought it , about 2 monthe ago.It would start (very hard) and run when I first got it, but not very well, and idled poorly.After doing several differen't things(wire repair,new fuel pump relay, new alt,plugs & wires,vacuum hoses), I looked at the main pump. It had been replaced with another pump (not the correct part),and the hose connections from the pump to the accumilator was all messed up and some what kinked. It was a smaller type pump and I thought at first that it might be an In-tamk pump. That's when I ordered a new main pump. Well, after I installed the New main pump it runs worse and wouldn't stay running. The pump that I removed from the car is rated at 95PSI, and is labeled S1000, which from a little research is for a Ford F style truck.I think I'll take your advise and beef-up both pumps. Thanks , Joe.

So if you're going to change the pre pump, the one I had good luck with thanks to the Model Garage tip is part number 3517845. It's the high pressure pump from the 740 series. I can't remember what I had to do to make it fit the bracket, but it wasn't that difficult, maybe just removing a plastic tab or something. I do remember I had to rig up a new ground wire for it. That's all I remember. The main pump was for 1974-1979, part no. GFP221, maybe not right for the 1981. Bryan

Yesterday, Sunday, I replaced the In-tank pump with strainer,new fuel filter and also installed new fuel lines to the main pump and accumilator. Tried to start it, and it's still doing the same thing, Starts revs up for a few seconds then dies. It was suggested to me to go with a more powerful in-tank pump from a 740. But I went with the stock spec type. I am thinking of putting the main fuel pump that I removed ,back. Because that has a 95 PSI rating, and the car did run with that pump, but wouldn'idle that good. Also ,I removed the Air intake duct/boot, and cleaned the sensor plate,and checked that it was not stuck.I also took off the lower airtube from the air filter box and did some cleaning up there . Still, same thing , start and die, When I was re-installing the air intake duct/boot I saw a smalltear near the top hose clamp. It runs up,& down, about 3/4", but it might be under the hose clamp. Then I decieted to look at the spark plugs, Totaly black, and they were brand new. So I went out and bought another set. Still no luck. Next chance I get I'm going to re install the Main pump with the 95 PSI. Thanks to all for the help and input. Joe

Yes, if the new main pump caused the problem it is worth putting back the old pump to confirm the cause. I was sold an incorrect (late model 240) main pump once for my early k-jet. I think auto stores sometimes think that all 240s use the same parts. It is the wrong pump if it is listed as being for 740 and (later) 240s. The k-jet main pump is unique in that it provides a much higher pressure to open the mechanical k-jet fuel injectors than the later electric injectors.

Idle problems have been found to be caused by vacuum leaks and dirty throttle bodies.

Your start-stall problem seems to imply that the starting circuit is working fine - it starts every time, but keeping it running is the problem.

Blackened spark plugs would be expected if fuel is getting to the cylinders but not being ignited properly.

Try unhooking the run wire at the ballast resistor - the one voltage goes through the BR to reach, and see if the symptoms are the same. If yes, then there may be a problem with the run circuit eg. bad ignition switch?
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.

Here's my latest up-date ( I have very limited time to work on my car ,only Sunday) re-installed the fuel pump that was in the car when I got it, 95 psi main pump, Did not start. So I removed the # 1 fuel injector. It looked horible. I set up a catch jar , jumpered # 5,& 7 fuses to get the pumps running, and NO fuel into the catch jar . I pulled # 2 injector, and that looked the same, very dirty and dry. I contacted the PO and he said that the car sat-up foe "about 2 years" . Any ideas? HELP! Thanks , Joe

"I set up a catch jar , jumpered # 5,& 7 fuses to get the pumps running, and NO fuel into the [injector] catch jar"

That's normal...
...given that the engine wasn't being cranked, and thus no intake suction to lift the airflow plate, and thus no raising of the control plunger in the fuel distributor, and thus no distribution of fuel to the injectors.


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Thank you Bruce for the reply. To conduct the injector jar test correctly should I also unplug the cold start injector? Joe

"To conduct the injector jar test correctly should I also unplug the cold start injector?"

No, the Cold Start valve should not pass any gas unless impulsed from the starter while cranking.

I would do the "jar test" by jumpering 5 and 7 fuses and manually lifting the airflow plate with a screwdriver or wooden stick, with the air inlet duct removed for access from below the airflow meter.

[Expect to feel some downforce on the airflow plate from the Control Plunger.]

Here's what they sound like (courtesy of Art Benstein)...



--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.