|
|
|
I was in a post about gaskets when I remembered I needed to pass on some information on the rear crankshaft seal.
I have posted about seal materials and a discrepancy between seal and crankshaft size problem before. The Elring orange silicon seal with an I.D of 93mm and a crankshaft size of 92mm.
Elring also makes a black seal with the same O.D. and I.D. but only 7mm thick.
I know about this because I was told it was better than silicone. I have one of these because of being told it was neoprene or Viton. I don’t know which the black one is made of. I was into trusting my discount parts people. It turns out it’s probably made of standard neoprene. My fault is, I got caught up in “What is supposed to better, than?”
It then turns out that they both are also one millimeter to large on their inside diameter than what a crankshaft measures. It’s molded right into the material. That is not right. That’s their fault.
The black one did come with a plastic internal ring that makes both easier to install when lubed up. Since their bigger it made it too easy. I had to go ahead and put it in because there you are, do you or don’t you.
That's when I felt I got all this slipped to me! It weeps just a little on that car today.
I located a Timken Seal that is identical to the Volvo one made of silicon rubber except it has the stock numbers that are molded on them. Like normal seals and bearings.
The Timken Box Number is 355660H.
There is a Molded Number is a National L355660H. It is probably a re box to Timken.
Maybe, merged like Chicago Rawhide (CR seals) which is now owned by SKF.
Elring of North America is supplying the closest metric seal they can get to their supply system, probably from Europe. That 92mm size is lost in their books too!
A Viton seal material was not available in this size at all, to best of my information.
You can get this seal from APPLIED Industrial Technologies or from Rock Auto.com.
I found the latter, by using Google, with the part number.
They run the same price of $9.50 ea. If A.I.T. has them in stock you might save the shipping. That was 5.95 in my case. I bought two since they had to come from Reno Nevada.
I thought it was worth it because the guy and I were really working the books to locate the seal. I could not believe this was exclusive to Volvo this many years, though it is possible to conveniently leave the numbers off.
Converting the dimensions and looking closely at them, is how we found out that there is a metric gap in the numerical sequence within the range of nominal sizes.
No doubt here, Volvo can jack the price up to those not knowing.
I have read that some dealers get over $20 for them on shop service sheets. I haven’t bought much from Volvo over the years. I don’t have to wonder why!
Hope the number helps someone. In the case you are doing an order with someone who works with you, as my good old buddies at APPLIED Technologies. They were formerly the King and Dixie Bearing Companies.
A Young Man, I used to BE!
Phil
|
|
-
|
|
|
I have never had a rear Elring "Brown color" crank seal fail, period! The local indy shop only uses those as they are actually a bit tighter than the 92mm crank OD. Yes, I did say brown in color, kinda in the poop color range of the Pan-tone spectrum of color! There is no question that they are made of silicone material, sorry, don't have a part number, but I'll look into it and repost if I find it.
jorrell
--
92 245 291K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!
|
|
-
|
|
|
Well I have never thought I had a "brown" Elring seal. So, I guess we are even.
My wife says it is more brown than orange. I'll give in and say it is a reddish brown to my eyes. Brown to me is like milk chocolate. They are a darker brown once installed with clutch dust and heat age on them.
The now “brown” Elring is the same color as the Timken. I sincerely doubt I’ll ever use them except to compare for fit up. My ’78 & 84 are working their way around for a change out.
Pass that, maybe a bottle toss game. It will match with the money I threw away for the practice lessons.
I was after a seal that says it is for 92mm diameters. My used Volvo seal and the new Timken’s don't have the size on them.
This eccentric person wants to think there is source, other than Volvo, that is the right size. This maker/number matches the factory seal.
Elring states 93mm x110mm x10mm. The crank is 92mm. The one I have in my ‘86 (an Elring) has wept a tiny bit ever since. Not enough to make me pull the transmission.
When I went to change the 1991's seal, I was on guard. I measured the crank.
The original brownish Volvo seal was not leaking. I left it alone because I went down that road already with the 1986.
The seal manufactures recommend the fitting of shafts with the same size seal diameters. They do make stainless steel repair sleeves to cover deeply worn grooves. A few thousandths larger diameter is acceptable. Changing the seal and leaving it smaller is asking for an eventual leak again real soon.
Call me old school but having a larger seal by one millimeter doesn't jive with standard practice of ordering and fitment.
Thanks for your information about the independent that puts on even tighter ones. Maybe it is because he can't find the right number, a factory equivalent seal number.
Like I said I couldn’t find one in the metric book because it doesn't exist there.
I like his idea of going tighter too!
A tighter one might groove the crank or not. It might wear out sooner or not. It is all about what works for then or not.
It depends on variables of the shafts surface hardness & heat or dirt environment too.
As long as a seal stays sealed, it works for me.
Phil
|
|
-
-
|
|
|
I'll play.
Left seal is orange, right seal is brown, and the car is dark red.
:)
And the brown Made In France Volvo seal on the right looks a lot like the "elring OEM" my supplier lists as 7mm thick, for $20..
I used the Victor Reinz or Elring Klinger orange one that has a size listed in my catalog as 93x110x10 without a thought a time or two before, might have wept some, wasn't enough to notice if it did. Interesting info though.
|
|
-
|
|
From my viewpoint, the seal on the left is orange and the one on the right is black. I do have some brown seals for the front of the motor.
My box of crayons only had eight colors, and I've never got the hang of giving cars proper names, so the code 125 paint Volvo called "cimarron brown" or in other years "red brown" was demoted to "orange" because there was already a code 141 "ruby red" 240 in residence, to be called, simply, the red car. I'm not certain if we had two blue cars at the same time, one would be referred to as "dark blue" or "light blue." Fortunately those (both 91's) are owned by different children, so they go by their owner's name and "blue." We do have two gray 83 turbos that were sold as "silver", but they are distinguished by their body style, as in the 242 and the 244.
Regarding the seals -- I don't have enough experience to pass judgment. I used the cheaper orange one two years ago. It doesn't drip on the driveway.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Something else to bare in mind is colors display quite differently from screen to screen. There are standards and ways to calibrate screens in the more professional art/image world.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Absolutely true. Just walked a friend through replacing the ccfl tube in his laptop display. Slow decay of monitor brightness and color rendition (what I chalked up Jorrell's response to) I compared to the wear in shock absorbers -- you don't know what you're missing 'til its replaced.
The color chart at paintscratch.com looks a bit darker on my monitor than the paint on our two "red" cars (125 and 141).
And there's the chocolate brown of a Mounds vs. the chocolate brown of an Almond Joy. But that Volvo viton seal is jet black. (Would that make it the color of aircraft aluminum?)
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"Sometimes you feel like a nut..."
|
|
-
|
|
|
Art,
The chocolate colored seal on the right is the one that I received in the last Elring gasket set I ordered... note, there was no Volvo label on the kit. That is the same color seal I use on the front side of the engine (all three shafts) from the same kit.
As far as the color of the car picture you posted, it is maroon. Our car used to be blue-green (Bleen) metallic, but now it is transforming to blue-green with clearcoat dandruff!
Someone else mentioned seals chewing into the shafts, the worst case of this I have seen was on a Ford 390 (FE block) front crank seal, the grooves were well past 1/16th of an inch at the front an rear lips. As it turns out, in that engine, there is virtually zero pressure from the crank case to push oil into the seal, so road grit never gets pushed out, this results in the grit adhering to the seal and then chewing up the crank. I guess that's why so many gasket companies make a shaft sleeve and seal kit so a new crank isn't needed! Keep in mind, a shaft seal won't last long if it doesn't have a little lubrication caused by pressure induced oil seepage, no seepage equals rapid seal failure.
jorrell
--
92 245 291K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!
|
|
-
|
|
|
OK, but the Elring seals always work for me.
|
|
|
|
|
