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How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

I have an opportunity to buy a clean 98 S90 with very low miles cheaply. The shop that guy goes to told him that the serpentine belt broke and caused the timing belt to break, mashing the valves. I know nothing of the 6cyl volvos. I am wondering if this car only needs a serp belt. The interesting thing is this very same shop told a lady that her 940 had blown a head gasket, so she gave me the car. I picked it up and found they had taken the relays out and then reassembled the dash to make it look untouched. When I got it home I also found it was just filled with about 2-3 gallons of oil that made it smoke. So now I wonder if this latest S90 is another car they are just trying to steal. Could a broken serpentine belt cause a timing belt to break? Thoughts?








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    How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

    I'm just about done re-building my 1998 S90 with the B6304 engine. My timing belt never broke. what failed was the guide bearing for the timing belt, causing the belt to slip about 12 teeth on the cam gears and damaging the valves. this can occur if the water pump bearing, the tensionior bearing, or the hydralic tensioner itself fails. my head rebuid was $325. plus $100. for used valuves for them to re-maine and install. then anothe $120. for a head gasket kit, plus 14 new head bolts, etc. all my intake valves were damaged. I'm thinking when it's all said in done I will be in for about $900. and a ton of labor. this is the first time, I'm doing this, so my learning curve was steep, even with the Volvo and Chilkton manuals. I speanf a lot of time making my own special tools, My MIG welder came in handy. you need a compression check. It's a simple pressure gauge. I also rigged up a properly threaded tube, that i could screw into the spark plug hole. I put a balloon over the end. Put a 30 mm socket on the crank bolt and manually turn the engine over clock-wise. if you have compression, the balloon will inflate and de-flate and also have vacumn on it. I agree, a serp. belt breaking is highly unlikly to break a timing belt. get the T-belt cover off, inspect the T-belt, manually rotate the engine with the socket on the crank. you could also take the plugs out and press the palm of your hand over the 1-1/2 inch. access hole to the plugs, and seal it with your palm tight. Then turn the engine over by hand. you will feel the compression on your palm.

    The shop should not have problem letting you do this.








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    How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

    Odd, indeed. I've never heard of a breaking serp. belt killing the timing belt, but I guess it could happen. As others have said, just crank it over. It will obviously have issues cranking (i.e. it is probalby seized or will make terrible noises) if the belt is broken. If it turns over, then it's probalby alright.

    As to the head work, it is harder than the old redblocks, but not anything impossible if you're mechanical. Undoing the cam cover is easy if you go slow and just take out bolts bit-by-bit. Reinstalling is tougher. Easier way that I used is pictured in the 7XX/9XX faq. Two small oak strips clamped from the sides with big C clamps.

    Probably the worst part was spreading the gasket maker on all those angles in the cam cover. That took a while!

    Beyond the cam cover, it's just like taking off any other head. Remove the intake/exhaust stuff, the coolant stuff, undo the head bolts, and away you go.

    Nate








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    How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

    It is doubtful that serpentine belt caused the timing belt to fail unless the serpentine belt got wrapped up somehow on the crank pulley, smashed through the timing belt cover and entangled with the timing belt. This would be obvious by looking at it. If the timing belt broke the engine will not crank, period. The harm is already done and engine will be seized with valves against pistons. Removal and re-installation of the head on this engine is not a job for the casual DIY'er. I know.
    --
    David Hunter








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    How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

    If memory serves me right....couldn't you take off the oil filler cap and turn over the engine either by hand( could be tough with the plugs in)or with the starter and see if the camm is rotating as it turns over?..








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      How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

      Would this work? I cant take the plugs out as it is at a shop, and if they are trying to be shady about what is going on with the car they are certainly not going to let me go at it with tools. I could probably try cranking it with the key though. But would this cause more damage if the timing belt is snapped?








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        How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

        I don't think you would even have to really turn it over...as soon as you "bump" it, you should be able to see if the cam moves....You probably need a helper to be able to see down in there...








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    How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

    Shouldn't someone be calling the police to report these thieves?


    Yes, it is possible and has been reported a few times on this board, that a breaking sepentine belt has taken the timing belt with it.

    If the timing belt broke, at the least there will be a couple of bent valves, so a head repair will need to be done.

    DanR '94 964 349,000 miles (115,000 on the new engine)
    --
    DanR








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      How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

      I wanted to report them to the attorney general, but I was in a tough spot. I paid to have the 940 towed home, I spent 2 days with it getting back to running condition, as well as I had to buy some relays. So at that point what was I to do? I couldnt just give the car back to the lady they scammed. With this latest car, the s90, it just seems odd that it is the same shop that says the timing belt and serp belt were both broken due to "some object". But from what a couple of you guys are saying the serp belt can take the timing belt with it.

      From what I have heard these 6 cyls are a nightmare to work on. Is it worth taking the head off and fixing one of these cars? It is a clean car with low miles(100k).

      Unfortunately I cant do a compression test at the shop where it is. If I buy it I have to have it out of there within a day.








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        How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

        Although this engine is certainly more complex than the 4 cyl, it is not a difficult engine to repair. As someone already said you have to pay attention to detail and there is a trick to getting the top cam cover off the head. You can't just undo the bolts and let her fly or you can damage the cam bearing surfaces. Volvo sells a very expensive tool to hold the cover down while you back off the bolts but I made my own with two spark plugs, some threaded rod and some 1/4 inch flat bar. I would gladly post a picture but I have never been able to figure that out. Also when reassembling you have to get the cams set in at approximately the proper timing position before tightening down the cam cover or you could possibly damage the valves as you crank the bolts down. A torque wrench is a good idea as well as the guy that worked on my engine before me obviously didn't own one or just didn't use it as he stripped all but about 8 of the cam cover bolts. I had to drill and retap them all to one size larger in order to stop the oil from pouring out. I also try not to turn the crank away from the timing mark during the head work to maintain #1 in the TDC position. It is also a good idea on these engines to slowly turn them by hand after doing the timing belt to make sure the cams are correct. I hope I am not coming across as lecturing but I had to do a heck of a lot of research on my own to work on this engine so I hope this is helpful.








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        How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

        Your statement is incorrect. What has been said is that it is highly UNLIKELY that a broken serpentine belt will cause a timing belt to break. If the engine cranks on the starter and cam turns then timing belt is OK. Bottom line is that you cannot know the true condition of the engine without an inspection.

        The 960 engine is more complex to work on than the 4 cylinder red blocks, but not a nightmare. Removing the head is doable but requires attention to detail.
        --
        David Hunter








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          How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998


          That isn't strictly true that if the cams turn the belt is OK. I had the head off a 960 the other day that had been timing belted by the dealer. Unfortunately they left the bottom pulley loose, which proceeded to eat away at the splines of the pulley over several thousand miles. Eventually the pulley turned on the crank and munched it's way through a load of valves. That'll explain why it won't start then.....








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    How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

    I don't think there is any way a broken serpentine belt could cause a timing belt to break.

    The only scenario I could possibly think of is if the serpentine belt broke and wrapped itself around the crank pulley instantly causing the engine to come to a screeching halt and thus breaking teeth off the timing belt. That scenario is a real strech though - highly unlikley.








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      How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

      As DanR stated there is at least one person on this board who said that a snapped serpentine belt somehow got entangled with the timing belt near the crank and caused it to come off causing bent valves.

      A compression check will tell you allot.

      DEWFPO
      --
      1998 S90 083,228 and 1995 964 154,100








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        How to tell if the timing belt broke? S90-V90 1998

        Wouldn't the engine lock up if the valves hit the top of the pistons?
        If you turn it over with the key and bumped the starter --it's not going to do anymore damage than what ever has already been done--thats where I would start
        the heads doable--there's a spot on ebay thats selling refurbished heads for these cars at around 600 bucks--thats cheaper than you can have one done.
        Interesting thread







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