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Hello, Ive got a 91 240 and on new years day I went to start my car and the engine would not even turn over. When I turned the key to start I got a distinct CLICK noise that sounded like it was coming from the passenger side dash. It sounds like a relay.
I thought that it was a battery problem so I went and got a new one. The old battery was about 5 years old so it needed one anyway.
When I got home and installed the battery the temp had warmed a bit to about 10 degrees F above zero and she started right away. Problem solved for that moment but the next morning when it was well below zero (-6 degrees) I was having the same problem and it refused to turn over until the weather warmed up a bit.
It is only doing this in the morning when it is the coldest.
My Volvo guy that works on all my cars suggested that the starter needed to be rebuilt but I have a hunch that a relay is to blame due to that clicking noise I am hearing.
If anyone has an idea what this might be please share and hopefully i wont need to take the car in to the shop and can repair myself.
Thanks, Matt.
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Seems to me a simple voltmeter test would narrow this down quickly. Put the meter on the braided wire from the solenoid to the starter, crank, observe meter.
If it's below 10 volts, the starter is unlikely to turn.
If no volts there, move to end of cable from battery at the solenoid. Crank and check again.
BTW, attach the neg. side of meter to battery - post.
If getting low voltages, check the voltage drop along both the cables.
A VOM can save you lots of time and money, get one and learn how to use it.
--
84 242Ti IPD bars&springs, 89 745 16v M46 IPD bars, 89 744 16v M46 IPD bars, 93 945 Turbo AW71, 91 245SE AW70 IPD bars, 93 245 CLassic M47
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I've read every other post here and I think you've got a bad cable and or starter as well. The only other (off topic) idea that I would throw out to you is you might want to switch over to synthetic oil when this is all done. It is amazing the viscosity difference at -20*F or more that synthetic lube makes. Good luck, and don't get frostbite!
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It's all said below... but, to sum up...
you got a bad connection. Start at the battery terminals. Next step is the connection between the terminal clamp and the cable.. often overlooked.
Pretty rare to have a bad connection at the starter in my experience, but a bad ground is possible. Next time, use your jumper cables in a whole new way.. jump the intake manifold to the chassis.. make sure your starter is getting good ground. Damn, I was out messing with that a few weeks ago. Finally just installed a new ground strap from the intake manifold to a strut mount bolt with 002 gauge wire. At 7am when it was 10 below.
Car turned over faster than ever, and hasn't failed to since. Even down to 22 below.
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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I think many batteries get sold when all that's needed is good, clean battery terminal connections. Not just the typical corrosion you see when you open the hood, but the true connection surfaces between the battery post and the inside of the cable terminals.
You may have cleaned yours somewhat when in the act of changing batteries, but it might be worthwhile to remove the cables again (negative first for safety) and really scrape or wire brush the contact surfaces clean.
The new one probably pooped out for 2 reasons:
1) They don't come fully charged from the dealer.
2) Battery efficiency drops like a rock as the temperature drops.
You can combat #2 by using an extension to power a 75W or 100W light bulb over night instead. The typical "shop light" type, with the bulb in a protective cage if you have one. Put the bulb next to the battery and lay some cardboard or folded old blanket over the top to trap some heat.
You'll be amazed at how much faster the engine will crank with a warmer battery.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Lucid, thanks for the advice. I needed to replace the battery anyway the old on was a 5 year old 3 year warrenty battery. I will clean the contacts like you suggested however I think the problem has to be somewhere else. When the engine is not turning over my headlights are bright and all dash looks like powerful battery is there.
Again thanks for the suggestions, Matt.
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Definitely check the cables as well as you can. I know that working in zero-ish conditions is no fun.
Here's what I'd do, especially considering the weather you're working in.
I would fully charge both the installed (new) battery and a second one that's a "known good" battery. Such as one that's in a car that's regularly driven. Make sure the 2nd one is at least as big as the Volvo battery, if not bigger. Bigger size = more amps, all other things being equal.
Make sure they're both fully charged. A trickle charger is my preferred way, because I have one (they're about $20, easy on the wallet). If the 2nd one has just been driven 30-60 minutes I'd consider it charged, or use a charger on it.
Jump the 2 batteries together and see if that will start your Volvo.
As a precaution, DON'T have the working car running when jumping the lame one. It's true that gives you about another 80 or so amps of current but it's not worth the risk. I read that years and years ago in Pop Science or Pop Mechanics. The working car's alternator will attempt to put out enough current to run your starter motor. The alt is not up to that job and can burn itself out. Cold engines take a lot more amps to get started and you can easily exceed the capacity of the running alternator.
--
Sven: '89 245 NA, 951 ECU, expanded air dam, forward belly pan reaches oem belly pan, airbox heater upgraded, E-fan, 205/65-15 at 50 psi, IPD sways, no a/c-p/s belt, E-Codes, amber front corner reflectors, aero front face, quad horns, tach, small clock.
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My Volvo guy that works on all my cars suggested that the starter needed to be rebuilt but I have a hunch that a relay is to blame due to that clicking noise I am hearing.
Hi Matt,
Turns out you are both right. The clicking noise is coming from a relay most often referred to as a solenoid. The solenoid relay is part of the starter assembly.
I wonder if your new battery ever got charged fully.
Before rebuilding or replacing the starter, some diagnostic should be performed, because starters aren't cheap, chain-store rebuilt units are often defective, and replacing them in cold weather isn't fun. Your trusty Volvo guy will know how to be sure the starter is the culprit, and not simply battery cables. And if he has your starter rebuilt instead of swapping in one from the parts house, you have a good shop.
If you decide to work on this yourself, be aware battery cables can corrode inside the insulation, most often inside the crimps at the end terminals. This can result in the "click, but no grr-rr-rr" symptom. Watch your dome light as you try to crank. If it goes out, suspect cables. If not, get a good size wooden stick or ball bat and rap the side of the starter (solenoid) once and try again. Cold weather makes things shrink.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
By the time a man is wise enough to watch his step, he's too old to go anywhere.
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Thanks for the fast reply. So you think its the starter and there is no simple fix I could preform and possibly save some money? Either way thanks again for the advice.
-Matt
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Before you apply the ball bat too enthusiastically, take a look at this good advice passed along on the 700 forum:
No Crank! Starter dead?
The rapping on the solenoid is an old trick to get a nearly touching worn-out solenoid disc to make contact with the terminal bolts and pass current into the starter. Apparently this old trick, when applied to modern permanent magnet starters has caused at least one rebuilder to advise against it. Makes sense to me.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
“Only one man in a thousand is a leader of men, the other 999 follow women”
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Even a light wack on the solenoid is bad? I did this once and when the engine started replaced the starter the next day.
Dan
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Dan, I can say with great confidence you can whack your solenoid without stunting any growth if you only whack it hard enough to get its worn contacts to kiss, and don't whack the starter motor itself so hard the permanent magnets in its field crack or dislodge. Only your rebuilder will know for sure.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"Five second fuses only last three seconds." - Infantry Journal
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I always thought the idea was to "loosen up" a stuck solenoid, I do it and have recommended using a wood broom stick or 2x2. I wouldn't hit any starter with a hammer but it doesn't seem like you can do much damage with a small hunk of wood.
Dan
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I'm with you Dan. Just having some fun with it. Until today I hadn't thought of volvo starters having fragile permanent magnets.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal
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Hi. Battery cables have two more critical ends, a grounding point and the connection to the starter, so many points may be loose or coroded and allowing only low amps. past. Check these all carefully, then pull your starter for a bench test. In cold weather starting the oil is thicker and the engine turns over harder, demanding more from the starter systm. Poor battery, loose/coroded connections, worn brushes or shorts in field windings in the starter and you are staying there. I would check the cables next then starter. Good luck... Paul
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Thanks for the reply smashed, I dont think that my battery or cables are the problem. The new battery seems to work fine and the only thing that is affecting the starting is the temp. The battery is performing well even at the low temps so it has to be something to do with the starter or some other relay due to the clicking noise.
PS does anyone know how easy it would be to replace a starter? I can get the car on ramps and I dont mind the cold. How long does it take to pull it and replace??
Thanks, Matt.
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Go here:
http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/ElectricalStarting.htm
Or to find it manually:
Go to dropdown list at top right corner of these pages, scroll down to 700/900 FAQ. Once there, scroll down for the dropdown lists. Use the one on the left to get to Electrical: Engine Starting, Charging.
Not a fun job but doable.
I'd check everything else first. Including, I'd put two fully charged batteries on the job of starting your engine, jumped together. At your temperatures, even an OK battery might not do the job if the oil is 15/40 or thicker, and/or other negative influences such as iffy cable connections or weak cables etc. etc.
--
Sven: '89 245 NA, 951 ECU, expanded air dam, forward belly pan reaches oem belly pan, airbox heater upgraded, E-fan, 205/65-15 at 50 psi, IPD sways, no a/c-p/s belt, E-Codes, amber front corner reflectors, aero front face, quad horns, tach, small clock.
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