posted by
someone claiming to be Fee
on
Tue Dec 22 09:28 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
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I had to have my car (91' 780) towed as it died within a few hundred feet of the electrical shop I was heading to. I could had made it but I was in the wrong lane on the highway and the idiot in the other lane did not see me signal. So the car died within a minute.
I had been having issues in the last week or so. Yesterday when I was driving the car did not crank up first thing as if the battery was dead and the next time it turned over and started. Then the idiot lights were illuminating and then dimming during normal driving. It seemed also that the volt meter was in the red (11 volts) as opposed to the middle where it usually is. I did some quick research on the 700 FAQ and the symptoms pointed to bad brushes in the alternator.
This morning it started fine but the volt meter gauge was swinging from the red back to the middle and by the time I got on the highway and to the shop the gauge was in the red and showing no sign of charging. I believe it is the original alternator but not sure. Is there a way to check?
And should I just replace the brushes or if it is the original alternator would it be best to just get a new one? Also I jump started a friends battery a week or so ago and I hope I did not damage my car by doing so. I followed the instructions on the cables but I believe it said to clamp to the negative post of the bad battery which is a no-no but I was just going by what the instructions said.
thanks :)
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With the headlights and electrical stuff off how much voltage do you
measure at the battery with the car idling? There should be about 14 volts
to charge the battery. See if the voltage drops when you turn on high beams
and the heater fan. That might point to a loose belt.
There's a number of things that can screw up charging other than the
alternator. Such as a loose alternator belt, and a loose piggyback
positive wire at the battery. There's also some rubber munting bushings
that crap out with age that might wreck the alignment of the alternator,
and contribute to charging unhappiness. Take a close look at your battery
cables, especially the crimp-on ends that go west with aging.
The voltage regulator comes off the alternator with two screws.
easy to see if the brushes are toast. A local place here (near Boston)
gets $10 for the regulator, but they need to see the old one since there's
different variations.
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Pull the voltage regulator and check the brush length, you should be able to find the minimum in the FAQ. Replacing just the brushes is cheap (like $6) but then you have to solder them in. A whole VR is about $25 and an easy change.
It screws to the back of the alternator.
--
84 242Ti IPD bars&springs, 89 745 16v M46 IPD bars, 89 744 16v M46 IPD bars, 93 945 Turbo AW71, 91 245SE AW70 IPD bars, 93 245 CLassic M47
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posted by
someone claiming to be Fee
on
Tue Dec 22 14:58 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
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So I could just get a new voltage regulator, including the brushes, and then just bolt or screw it in to the current alternator? If it was that easy wouldn't everybody do this and save the cost of a new alternator? Do I need any special tools?
thanks
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I think your alternator is high on the driver side of the engine (not low on the passenger side as on a 240). The VR is held in by 2 phillips head machine screws. You may need a short, long or angled screwdriver, and sometimes I use a screw bit in a rachet wrench as the screws can be tight and it's hard to get leverage. I even have resorted to a vise-grip on the screw head to break it free.
Take a look at yours and the brush lengths. Having a spare VR around is always good to check if it and the brushes are the cause of alternator failure.
Also, you disconnect the battery negative terminal, as battery voltage is present on the alternator rear.
--
84 242Ti IPD bars&springs, 89 745 16v M46 IPD bars, 89 744 16v M46 IPD bars, 93 945 Turbo AW71, 91 245SE AW70 IPD bars, 93 245 CLassic M47
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When I got one (3544588-1) in 2/06 it was $8.82 at 20% off from Beechmont Volvo.
Now Tasca's discount price is $31.67!!!
Shoulda gone for two or three.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Most everyone on here does the $25 voltage regulator repair because it's all you need. There is some school of thought about the bearings in the alternator, but you could easily check that with the belt off. If there's play in the shaft, either latterally, up down, or side to side, or if the bearing is at all noisy, it's worth replacing the whole thing. If not, throw a new VR into it. Save your $100+.
I did it to mine, solved the problem.
B
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posted by
someone claiming to be Fee
on
Sat Jan 30 13:11 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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OK I ordered a voltage regulator over the internet, Bosch part number 1197 311 028. The old one was easier to get off than it was installing the new one. The new v.r. had brushes that were quite a bit longer than the old one. Obviously the old one had some serious wear and/or I got the wrong part for my car.
Which brings me to these questions. Is it possible to install the voltage regulator wrong? After installing it the car would not start, but admittedly the battery was not fully charged after sitting for over a month or more. So my questions are is it possible that the car would not start if the voltage regulator was installed incorrectly and what exactly is the purpose of the brushes? Do they make contact with a moving part or do they make some kind of electrical contact?
thanks!
Fee
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With or without a good regulator the car will not start if battery is run down or dead. Obviously the VR only can charge the battery after engine is running, it has no role in starting. Therefore you must first charge the battery or get a boost and have the engine running to know if all is good.
Your questions: It is possible to install anything wrong but common sense hopefully prevails. Do you have a reason for think this? The brushes contact the moving moving armature and carry electrical current.
After you start the engine buy, beg, borrow a meter and check for voltage at the battery to start rising to at least 14 volts. This tells you that the alternator/regulator/brushes are doing the job. You can also drive to any of the chain parts stores such as Advance where they will happily check the battery and charging system, no charge. The dash guage is not accurate enough for this purpose.
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David Hunter
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posted by
someone claiming to be Fee
on
Sun Jan 31 05:00 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for the info David. I have the battery on a charger now so you are probably right about that. It was just akward installing the voltage regulator so I was worried that it might not be making a connection or that I installed it wrong or something. I had to really use a lot of pressure when holding it down to screw it in and the brush length was so much longer than the one that I was replacing with, even though the parts looked identical. I guess I will know soon enough! I do have a test light but not a proper voltage meter to test the charging of the battery but I will take your advice and bring it somewhere if I do in fact get it started.
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I assume the amount of pressure was just to compress the brush springs, correct? You would not want to have had it misaligned or jammed against something creating that resistance.
Good Luck, Post back.
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David Hunter
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posted by
someone claiming to be Fee
on
Sun Jan 31 06:43 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Yes I had to put enough pressure to compress the springs. But I did not know about this prior to installing it so for someone to do it the first time it feels like you are cramming it in. Add to the fact that when you install in the part sits upside down.....at least the lettering is upside down when viewed looking down into the engine compartment.
But anyway I fully charged the battery and everything seems to be fine. The volt meter on the dash shows a full charge and I am not getting the flickering idiot lights as I was before it went dead. I even turned the heater on full blast a few times to see if it would put a visible draw to the system and it did not so I assume everything is fine now. Thanks for the tips!
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posted by
someone claiming to be Bill D.
on
Sun Jan 31 08:56 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Did you push the brushes in and lock them in with a paperclip before installing? Not really needed if you know what you are doing but it prevents broken brushes. Just make sure to pull the locking pin before you connect the battery.
Bil lD.
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Forgot: Also check or have the shop check the battery cables. I had some serious corrosion in mine, the 5 little positive ones, at the battery end. In fact, I gotta rush off and jump in the shower then run to town and find some cable and fittings to fix it with. Bad cables can cause all kind of problems in these cars including bad gas mileage and driveability problems. Make sure the cables are okay and have essentially no resistance.
FWIW, the corrosion in my cables was from the previous battery. The Optima has only been in this car for about 4 years. Optimas don't leak electrolyte or acid and they don't cause terminal corrosion. Period. The top of my battery is dirty, from years of use, but has no corrosion on the posts or anywhere.
--
Scott Cook - 1991 745T, 1986 Toyota Tercel (Don't laugh, it is reliable, faithful AND gets 41 mpg!)
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My car just did the same thing, except that I don't have the 780's volt meter to swing wildly. If you have any control over what the shop does, make sure that they check out the exciter/warning lamp circuit as per the FAQ. If the alternator does need a new brushes or a regulator, I'd suggest just replacing the whole thing. Mine is 18 years and 11 months old, and has over 300,000 miles on it. Even though the bearings seemed fine, they will go eventually, and why not just put a new or rebuilt alternator in to eliminate that problem down the road? If the new one lasts like the original one did, then I should be without alternator problems for another 18 years and 300,000 miles :)
Make sure that the battery is fully charged before you or the shop puts in the new alternator. If you need a new battery, I highly recommend an Optima battery. Mine is 9 years old, and after the car was towed home and it had time to rest, still was able to crank it up and run it so I could turn it around in the garage. It took a full charge with no trouble last night and is holding it just fine. They don't make an Optima that is the right physical size for the 700 series Volvo, so you have to rig up the battery hold down. Use a 75/25 Optima. Most batteries, including the best of the others, only last two to three years here in Florida.
My original, installed at the factory, alternator had a red Bosch label on the bottom of it. Sent it to the Bosch dealer as the exchange core, so don't have it here right now, or I would tell you exactly what it said.
Whatever you do, insist on a Bosch replacement. You can get a remanufactured Bosch from FCP Groton for about $185 plus shipping. The Bosch reman that I got has a two year, unlimited mileage warranty, was remanufactured in Germany not Korea or China, and comes with 24 months of roadside assistance. They will start or tow you if the alternator fails!
--
Scott Cook - 1991 745T, 1986 Toyota Tercel (Don't laugh, it is reliable, faithful AND gets 41 mpg!)
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Bosche rebuilt at Advance auto for $110. Lifetime warranty.
If you must take it to a shop watch their price.
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David Hunter
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