posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Sat Dec 19 03:44 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
Guys, posted about 1 1/2 months ago, my 940 was kickin out and I followed suggestions-replaced rpm sensor and fuel pump relay just to make sure.
Car then ran fine till yesterday- very cold 5 degrees, car started right up, warmed up and jump started my 240 w/it( don't know if this info is pertinent but offered it anyways).
Anyhow, drivin down the road,while accelerating, I feel it start to lose power-as in lagging back. About 4 miles down the highway, it just starts to run rough and dies. I push it w/my wife crabbing all the way and steering to a store another 200 yards. I try to restart, it is cranking but not catching.
I am going to check for spark then if thats o.k. spray some engine starting fluid in the throttle body.
Does anybody have some tips on what's gone out now on this old girl?
I'd appreciate any advice, you've all been so helpful in the past.
Thanks.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Wed Dec 30 20:28 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
Thanks for the recent help guys. Put a new radio supp. relay in it and seems to be o.k.. Thanks also for that correction on the pump NOT being under the car on this one. I had last changed the big canister filter underneath it about 1 1/2 years ago and had forgotten about the absence of the main fuel pump being there as it is on my 240's. Too many Volvo repairs and maintenance clouding things together.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Fri Dec 25 10:49 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
Removed fuses #1 and 11. Jumpered as advised from top term of fuse #1 to top term of fuse #11. Also, jumped from fuse #1 to bottom term of fuse #11, and switched key to on position...... neither pump would run. Did observe when turning key on, an odd click that I never heard before coming from relay/fuse area? Listened carefully at gas-tank and underneath car, and heard absolutely nothing.
Could this be that some kind of fuel shut off has been activated? I thought there was something on these cars where that could happen.
The same day that this car suddenly cut out driving down the road I had used it to nudge out my other car from the driveway with the front end. I dont see how it's possible that both pumps have failed working and cannot be powered up! PLEASE ADVISE
|
|
-
|
|
|
Have you checked the radio suppression relay above the battery? If that is bad, the pump will not run. It sounds like you have a bad intank pump, which should be the only pump on that vehicle. I am assuming a Regina fuel system. I just had the same issue with my 1993 940.
Regards,
--
Will Dallas, www.willdallas.us, www.willdallas.org, www.willdallas.com, www.dallasprecision.com 86 245 DL 222K miles, 93 940 260K miles, 88 765 GLE 152K miles, 88 780 246K miles, 93 Buick LaSabre 119,000 miles
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Sat Dec 26 03:39 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
Guys, I'm so totally confused right now I don't know what to say. I went out today, I didn't feel it was appropriate to troubleshoot on Christmas. I turned the key and the thing started right up and kept running fine. So I pull the fuses out and try the jumpering again, still could hear nothing. So after reading Bruce's comment and Big Harrys about the tank pump being the only one on the car, I look underneath and I can't see any undertank pump. Duh! I guess I've had to many different Volvos, 2 240s, a 740(which I know had the under car pump) and this 940. So, I go to my little book that I write all my repairs down in for each car and I see I had made an entry for changing the filter for this 940 @121,000 miles- guess I was entering under wrong car.
So what gives, why couldn't I hear tank pump running when jumpering? Theres only a 1/4 tank of gas in it, its not like it was smothering the sound. I know I can hear the pump run on the 240s. I will try jumpering it and cranking it over and see if it'll run.
Problem now is, can I trust this car and what would you all do to head off another on road breakdown again?
|
|
-
|
|
|
The intermittent failure suggests the radio suppression relay. The RSR doesn't control the pump operation - that's a straight battery to fuse to pump circuit. The RSR controls sends the positive to the injectors, and if it fails to close properly, the injectors don't fire. And it is known for intermittent operation prior to complete failure.
If it's in its failure mode, you can pull the relay and jumper the two fattest wires, then try to start the car. If it starts, replace the RSR, try again. If no start, 30 bucks gets you a new RSR.
Another test is to hold onto the plastic casing on the relay, and have someone turn the key to the on (not start) position. You should be able to feel the click of the relay closing.
Another possibility - some, maybe most 740/940 have two identical relays mounted next to each other. One is the RSR, the other controls the aux fan operation. Swap them, see what happens.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Sat Dec 26 04:03 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
Boxvolvo, sounds good I'll give it a try. Sounds completely rational to me.
|
|
-
|
|
|
In the old days, before alcohol was commonly mixed with fuel, I would say it sounds like a classic case of ice in the fuel line. Might be worth dropping some gasline antifreeze in, if you can still get it.
If your gas has ethanol in it from the pump, ice isn't your problem.
--
67 144, 86 740T, 91 945SE, BMW R69S, R60/2
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Tue Dec 22 10:24 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
Chris,
Thanks but yeah they've got ethanol in the gas down in upstate N.Y.
|
|
-
|
|
|
One quick check would be to disconnect the Air Mass Meter to allow it to go into limp home mode. This would tell you if the AMM is bad. Pull the vaccum hose off of the fuel pressure regulator and smell for gas in the hose(bad fpr)this is located at the drivers side front side of the valve cover area on the fuel rail although it could still run with one going bad. Did you put on a new crank sensor or a used one? The quick shot of starting fluid into the throttle body is ok to tell if its fuel related, that is if you have spark to ignite it . Take a spark plug and pull off one wire and ground the plug to the engine while some one turns the starter over. Have you noticed any black smoke coming from the tail pipe? And is your hot air pipe hooked up from your exhaust manifold to your air filter box? In cold weather like your having its important to make sure you don`t allow the cold start injector to run constantly by having a bad water temp. sensor. It can trash your oxygen sensor which could cause some of your symptoms. With cold weather I use fuel line antifreeze also. There are a lot more things it could be but some of these are quick checks.Hope this helps. Larry
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Tue Dec 22 10:19 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
lucid,
Thank you for that info. Yes, it was a new rpm sensor as was the relay. No black smoke evident. I had an AMM go on my 87 740 turbo and it still allowed me to drive the car- just ran rough. Shouldn't that be the same scenario with this car? This thing doesn't want to start at all- like I wrote- gas or starting fluid squirted in the intake, it runs till gas exhausted. Thats why I'm barking up the fuel pump tree. Please correct me if you think otherwise.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Mon Dec 21 13:37 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
I checked for spark and have that, then I put my old fuel pump relay back in as I don't believe it was bad in the first place-no change, still did not start. Put back in new relay and then put some gas into the line from the fuel pressure regulator that goes into the throttle body. Tried to start and car ran for about 6-7 sec. and then quit. Did that a few times and it ran each time.
What can I try next? Is there anyway to bypass the relay like you can on a 240-like jumping fuses 4&6? Could it be the main fuel pump? Tank pump? I tried turning the key on and listening at the tank and under the car but could hear nothing!!! Should I be, or is that only when you jump the relay?
|
|
-
|
|
Tank pump? I tried turning the key on and listening at the tank and under the car but could hear nothing!!! Should I be, or is that only when you jump the relay?
If this is Regina FI like my non-turbo '93 940, the only pump is in the tank. And yes, you should hear it run for a second or two (under ECU control) when the key is turned on. If it's the original pump it may be on the way out.
You can bypass the ECU and relay with a jumper wire about 10" or 12" long with flat male "blade" type terminals on each end to see if the pump will run.
Pull the ashtray for access to the fuses.
Remove fuses 1 and 11.
Connect the jumper between the TOP terminal of the Fuse 1 socket (Battery +12V)
and
the BOTTOM terminal at fuse 11 (path to fuel pump)
The pump should run immediately. If it does, then you know it works and the problem would seem to be relay or ECU related. If it doesn't run, the pump (or connector in left rear wheel well area) are suspect.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Hindenburg
on
Tue Dec 22 10:14 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
|
|
Bruce,
I'm positive that this car has the main pump under the car as well as the in tank pump as I've had to change the big canister filter before and remembered what a PITA they are on this car and my 240's
Can I still jump the 1 and 11 fuses to make both these pumps operate? At least then I'll have an idea what avenue to take.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Yes, you can check each pump separately.
With fuse 11 removed, jumpering +12V to the UPPER terminal should run the undercar pump.
Jumpering +12V to the fuse 11 LOWER terminal should run the Tank pump.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
|
|
|
|
|
