Okay folks, as you know, I love the 240 series, but this is one occasion where I must tout the abilities of the newer Volvos. On Wednesday I found out I needed to drive from Davie County, NC to Nashville, TN. A trip through serious mountains and switchbacks that I was looking forward to taking in our 240 "Bleen" with it's Yoko V4S semi-performance tires. Twisty turns and elevation changes are something I consider to be fun in a modded 240!

That being said, my wife insisted that I take the 06 XC-70 "Exe" because a winter storm might be coming in from down south. So I reluctantly took "Exe" and left "Bleen" sitting at home. The trip to Nashville was smooth, the car did great, I almost never felt the road despite the sway bar mods... ho-hum and kinda boring. The interview today went very well and I am anticipating an offer from them, a truly great fit... enough about that.

So, this afternoon I started driving back from Nashville and stopped at a rest stop to lose the monkey suit/tie and clad myself in weather worthy comfortable clothing like jeans and a sweat shirt. The kind attendant at the Rest Stop informed me that I would never make it through the mountain pass due to the weather past Knoxville, TN and sure enough he was right, I-40 was closed for rock slides and I-81 (the detour) was closed for ice and snow. I made it through Knoxville, TN with the hope of at least reaching Johnson City tonight but the temperature dropped and the rain turned to ice and then snow, "Exe" kept cooking at around 60MPH while other cars were spinning out, she never lost her grip thanks to traction control technology that exceeds my driving ability.

When I heard that I-81 was shut down due to weather I tried to find a hotel, five stops later, I finally found a place to stay for the night. What stuns me is that "Exe" NEVER missed a beat, never slipped, never skidded despite being in 6+ inches of snow. I must thank my wife for insisting that I take "Exe" rather than "Bleen" as "Bleen" would have gotten stuck at best or flipped over at worst.

I have a new respect for newer Volvo technology, sure it feels different than the crash safety of the 240, but it can provide the ability of avoiding an accident in the first place that a 240 is entirely incapable of!

I am NOT trying to disrespect the 240 here, I'm just trying to say that new Volvo technology is nothing to be shunned. As a matter of fact, I will now do my best to learn how to service/take care of the newer Volvos so their feared mysteries and perceived expenses can be avoided!

Thank You Julia!

jorrell

ps. Sorry if that "rant" is considered blasphemous or offensive! I am simply impressed! Merry Christmas!
--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

Good luck. You will need some serious computer software and a volvo tech in your back pocket. Junk! You can have it.

Hi all, somehow I posted a response to this thread on the thread where I thought all this was going "are 2xxs good in the snow or not" or similar.

It was a long piece and posted late so here is a synopsis.

1) we have "old" and "new" a '91 245 and and S60 awd.
2) we live in So. VT on a dirt road.
3) we have a cheap, honest, mechanic for the 240 (old Volvo nut) and an honest indie shop for the S60.
4) driving skill and experience are a prerequisite for the 240 (along with snow tires and weight in the back) in winter driving conditions.
5) the S60 NEEDS snow tires absolutely (awd, abs etc. is not enough).
6) a cautious driver not "into driving" will fare much better in S60 than the 240.
7) the 240 is at 225k and needs restoration of the interior and other minor fixes.
8) the S60 has 125k and seems to be going through a phase of new wheel bearings and seems to have a bent front axle due to last years mud season/gigantic pot holes. No electrical/computer issues and is incredibly robust in a basic way.
9) Friends with Subarus have spent a lot of time and $$ on clutches, transmissions, head gaskets (some covered by recalls)and other ailments with more frequency than we have had major work on the S60. Subarus and other Japanese cars don't use stainless steel brake lines which then rust and often fail when you really need them. They are not as safe in an accident (especially caused by deer/moose entering the passenger compartment. A carefully maintained '02 Outback around here can suffer a rusted out floor, and creeping rust in sills and other parts of the car (i.e. they still really rust).
10)I am 6'3" and 200lbs Subarus are tight and not as comfortable as either Volvo on a long trip.
11) There are so many Subarus here that it is hard to find yours in parking lot. This is less of a problem with the 240 (humor).

happy safe holidays,
Rod

A second thumbs up to you from here. I really like my 245s, and I've got one of them equipped with a fresh set of Blizzaks on all corners, and with 100 lbs. of sand in 2 bags in the back it does very well. All that being said, the traction management systems available on newer cars is FAR superior to just a good set of winter tires and a reasonable driver. I got out of an (Off brand, German built)E 320 4wd wagon this weekend to give a push to a motorist and promptly fell right on my chair muscles. I could hardly walk up the slight grade covered in compact snow and ice, but the car had no visible slipping starting again from a standstill. As comfortable I feel about solving most problems on my old brick by myself and with the considerable help I find here on the BB, there certainly is a place for more modern technology out there, Volvo branded or not. Just please don't ask me to diagnose electrical issues in them. I'd be completely lost.

It seems to me that cars don't cause accidents. The people who drive them cause accidents. Traction control for forward progress is one thing is one thing but the ability to stop in the sort of conditions you describe is unpredictable.

You recently criticized an inattentive driver for almost rear ending your trusty 240. And yet you're driving 60 mph in conditions that call for lower speeds?

Sorry, John. That just doesn't make much sense.
--
'80 DL 2 door, '89 DL Wagon

Gee, I guess I should have mentioned that I had a serious margin of error that was close to a quarter mile from any other car around me at that time. About a mile after that I pulled off the freeway trying to find a hotel, after checking out hotels at five additional exits at safe speeds, I finally found one.

If I had been in Bleen, I would have pulled off the freeway at the first snowflake as I know how bad it is in the snow, the problem is I wouldn't have been able to check out five additional freeway exits at safe speed in the 240, it could not have handled the entrance and exit ramps in its current configuration.

Also, the references to being nearly "Suburbanized" had nothing to do with bad traction weather, that was all about inattentive tailgating drivers! A behavior I haven't participated in since I was a stupid teenager. I broke enough bones in one teenage experience while tailgating that I can assure you I'll never do it again!

Now all I need to figure out is how to bring that level of traction control to a 240!

jorrell
--
92 245 287K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

Jorrell wrote: "Now all I need to figure out is how to bring that level of traction control to a 240!"

Good all seasons or snow tires make all the difference in the snow. Our 245's actually do quite well.

-Ryan
--

Athens, Ohio
1987 245 DL 314k, Dog-mobile
1990 245 DL 134k M47, E-codes, GT Sway Bars
1991 745 GL 300k, Regina, 23/21mm Turbo Sway Bars

So you weren't passing anyone? If other vehicles were having as much trouble as you say how could you maintain the 1/4 mile buffer?

I'm sure you're a safe driver and but in this sort of weather I don't think you can be that far ahead of or behind of everyone out there at all times.

I think it's a bit of a double standard for you to criticize unsafe driving on the part of others and then go out and drive 60 mph under the conditions you describe.
--
'80 DL 2 door, '89 DL Wagon

Bulletproof

A simple question, how does your driving record look over the past 25 years? For your sake I hope it is clean. Yes, driving at 60MPH in those conditions was not appropriate, on that I will agree with you... that's why I changed my behavior in short order.

jorrell
--
92 245 287K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

You'll have to take my word for it, but in the past 25 years I have received 3 tickets for speeding and been involved in two collisions.

As for the speeding, I was within 10 mph of the posted limit but I won't make excuses. I was speeding. And there have been more times than those that I didn't get caught in the act. Tell me you haven't done the same from time to time. In recent years I have slowed down for the most part. I'm still working on the rest of the time.

As for the collisions, in neither was I adjudged to be at fault and, in fact, I was not. The investigating officers sized up the situation, interviewed the witnesses, the other drivers were ticketed and their respective insurance companies paid for the repairs to my cars.

John, hardly a week goes by that some idiot does not try to involve me in yet another collision or, in some way, put me in jeopardy while I am driving. I won't enumerate the instances but it is unfathomable to me how people can be so self centered as to imagine that they can drive with such boneheaded indifference to others on the same road and and think that they will not eventually inflict damage to the property of others if not to life and limb.

I know that sounds sanctimonious, as if I am so pure and everyone else is so egregious, but I tell you, I know from experience that it is better, to paraphrase an ancient public service announcement, to "watch out for the other guy," than it is to be, "the other guy."

I won't put you in that category though. I'm sure your better than most of the herd. You have alluded to learning from past mistakes. I have done the same.

Perhaps it is my all too frequent encounters with drivers who should not be allowed within 500 yards of an automobile, much less in the drivers seat, that has caused me to be critical of you. Please excuse my highmidedness. It's the morons I'm angry with. I am unfairly taking it out on you.
--
'80 DL 2 door, '89 DL Wagon

bulletproof,

I have two driving record "dings" over the past 25 years, the first was a 64 in a 55 (1995), and a 63 in a 55 (2005) that was reduced to a faulty equipment... honestly, a hosed speedo in the Eclipse. The last accident was 26 years ago, rear ended a Ford Fairmont at 5MPH.

Today, I saw driver behavior that should have resulted in serious accidents but somehow didn't, but none the less, they showed their total lack of driving talent. Sometimes its better to be lucky that good!

jorrell
ps. No hard feelings.
--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

If it were possible I would go back to last Saturday and not hit the submit button. My original response amounted to a personal attack and has no place on this forum.
I am sorry for that. And I'm glad you made it home safely.
--
'80 DL 2 door, '89 DL Wagon

The only issue I have with newer cars is that they require dealer service and the dealer's techs only know what the computers tell them. Case in point: daughter's VW has Check Engine light come on. Dealer can't tell if it is the sensor or the thermostat. They guess wrong and the CEL comes on before she gets home. Not very convienient. Now her radio turns itself on when the car is off. No problem found.

If they would back off the computer controlled stuff a notch or two...

Greg

i agree with you. if any carmaker come out with a modern day car that's even close to the serviceability of RWD volvos i'd be all over it.

guess i'll be waiting until the day true electrics rule the roads.

I had much the same experience last week when we encountered a little icy rain storm in Northern NJ. My wife had to go to the doctor. I was going to take my trusty 87 240, thinking it was only rain. The car was in the garage, a longer walk than to my 06 Ford F150 in the driveway, which also has remote start so it was nice and warm when we got in. We were going downhill into an intersection with a red light on our side and traffic already crossing through. I hit the brakes and felt that eerie pulsing and clicking as the anti lock started to take over. Good thing, too, because my big truck would've done some major damage to the Toyota Yaris that was crossing the intersection as we stopped just in time...
I still love Sven, our Volvo, but there is nothing like new technology...Sven probably would've been totalled in that incident, although smacking a Toyota... we probably would've been fine.

Hmmm, it never occurred to me that a 240 would be compared head-to-head with, say, an XC-70. The later ones are of course smoother, faster, ... and better in snow-ice. All things equal, why wouldn't you want an XC-70? They're awesome cars.

But all things aren't equal. I drive a 240 because it's inexpensive (driver and parts cars), simple to diagnose and repair, reasonable to drive (comfort/ handling), reliable, dependable, decent on fuel, tolerant of abuse and heavy loading, OK-looking (you're not too embarrassed, even in a ratty one). And inexpensive.

I assumed cost-benefit was key for everyone. Do people shun the newer ones for reasons other than purchase & maintenance costs? If you could have any Volvo - and cost was NOT an issue - someone who drives a lot would choose a 240? If so, OK, but I don't get it.

Assuming that road safety and the ability to push through harsh conditions are important (your "... and kept cooking at around 60MPH while other cars were spinning out, she never lost her grip thanks to traction control technology that exceeds my driving ability."), the XC will always win - no?

I love my 240s for local use but last night I wanted to do 230 miles w/ snow pending (Ohio). I took my 4WD truck rather than the 240. Coming home in the snow was like your trip: I maintained 60+ MPH; passed many vehicles; and then drove up and down several hills on the local roads. If I'd had the 240 I'd have added 50% to my return trip and then not made even the 1st hill*. The XC would have been at least as capable as my truck.

No disrespect meant to the 240s (mine, yours, anyone's, the car itself). Factor in cost and for my money it's the best car on the road. But the basic design & technology is ~40 years old so "Like Sand Through The Hourglass ..."

I hope to utilize 240s to ~2016 when the last non-ABS 240 will be ~25-years old. Then I'll be pleased to switch forever to an AWD XC.

I realize folks like the 240s for various non-driving reasons and I don't dis those folks or the cars. For me it's simply a practical decision. I gave up on the pre-86 cars a few years ago and a move to the V70 is just the next logical step.

--------------------------------------------
*I realize I could mount studded tires and in fact have a set. I used to do this in New England but it seems excessive for OH.

--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars

New Volvo's are sweet drivin'... and frankly are leaps and bounds "safer" than a 240, as Volvo has come a long way in 30 years. We're deluding ourselves if we think the 240 is still the safest thing on the road. Far from it. Newer Volvo's are not cheap to run, though.

My Mom has an '04 XC-90 T-6. Her favorite car that she's ever owned. However, the extended warranty has been a blessing. Computers die, and the transmissions don't last long... this stuff is stupid expensive, too. Any and all electrical work needs the dealership to talk to the computers. Yada yada...

Still, if you're running modern European cars, it goes with the territory. The Volvo fares comparatively well. Mom had a Range Rover for a couple years before the Volvo, and the Rover was a nightmare.

My wife and I love our 240's, but they really are quite spartan. As I get older, I definitely enjoy more "refinement" for long trips. The 740 fills thsat need for now.

-Ryan

--

Athens, Ohio
1987 245 DL 324k, Dog-mobile, E-codes
1990 245 DL 137k M47, E-codes, GT Sway Bars, GT Braces, Dracos
1991 745 GL 304k, Regina, 23/21mm Turbo Sway Bars
Buckeye Volvo Club

This is exactly it for me as well. The 240s are perfect for what they are but for a long trip where we want to make good time we usually rent. Even when I've replaced everything I can think of, there's the rusted brake line I missed when I inspected (2 years ago); the caliper piston that seizes (1 month ago; the pain fuel pump that was so quiet until 1/2-way into the trip; ....

And even then, that tiny bit of play in the inner tie rod ends as you're hitting snow-sleet-slush while passing some semis in the high-speed lane ...

Agree that newer vehicles are expensive to maintain. I'm not looking forward to fooling with a newer V70.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars

My affair with Volvo is only limited to 240 and probably so because what I own is wagon it has MT. Volvo also had the magic with only these old Volvos,if modern technology is concerned and weather is concern then why restrict to Volvos, there are truck load of other options available Toyota FJ cruiser or renowned Landcruiser ,Mitsu Montero, Subaru Wagons, Nissan Xterra, BMW X3 , Mercs with their 4matic.

Regards,
--
DD-1990 240 DL SW M47II FI 3.1 234 K miles

Gopeshs,

I agree with you entirely that there are many other great modern vehicles out there and I will also say the 240s have a unique character that I simply love! That being said, my attempt was not to compare new Volvos to the 240, my comments simply came out of being impressed by the XC-70s ability to handle far better than I could have ever imagined in nasty weather!

My gripe was that the vast majority of comments in the 240 forum in regards to newer Volvos are the negatives, ie. high cost, difficult maintenance, dealer work only, and comments like "new Volvos are 'Fords'", I thought I'd toss out a positive about the pseudo-offspring of our beloved bricks! Yes, with every car there are pros and cons, even in 240s! There are a few know down sides on 240s as well, that's why I carry a spare fuel pump relay, ceramic fuse kit, and jumper wires in the glove box! And yes, I have lived the 561 pink label nightmare a few times as well!

jorrell
ps. When driving home this morning from the hotel while heading towards Johnson City, TN from I-81 on I-26 (I think), I saw countless hundreds of cars pulled over or crashed from the night before along side the freeway. One really stood out to me, it was a mid to late 80s 244 white in color, minimal damage with it's nose down in a ditch and it's behind up in the air! I'm glad I stopped last night!

jorrell
--
92 245 287K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

Yes ,I see the point you are making, you thoroughly enjoyed the testing the limits of car in nature imposed lab, otherwise how would one see AWD in action. In that tricky situation it might have felt like an extra helping hand from above in addition to one's own skill.
I was expecting at least one reply in thread where a 240 shod with Gislaved conquered our own Nordic winters with a dash of Petter Solberg, that would have reconfirmed me that I have yet to achieve that zen combination.
Regards,
--
DD-1990 240 DL SW M47II FI 3.1 234 K miles

Up here in the Great White North, we are forced to learn a thing or two about both winter driving and winter tires. I have had experiences where, when driving every two weeks through a mountain pass with extremely poor roads and unpredictable conditions, my 244 with a good set of winter tires was the only thing on the road, going by 4X4's and SUV's that should have been passing me, or at least staying on the road. I found that with a steady hand and a steady foot on the accelerator, my 240 went anywhere I wanted it to go.

Nowadays, I go skiing every weekend, and often pass vehicles that are in the ditch and should have been able to stay on the road. I keep a Toyota Tacoma at h ome so my wife can get around town in bad weather and driving conditions. The Brick goes everywhere, and on the days when I choose to opt out of winter conditions, I'll wager that four wheel drive vehicles are having second thoughts too.. Taking it easy and having a realistic view of driving, not to say that a little Petter Solberg isn't a good thing as well, is the way to keep both on the road and out of harms way.

That warms my heart. " I found that with a steady hand and a steady foot on the accelerator, my 240 went anywhere I wanted it to go." very well said, and as another poster was saying " It is more work to drive older 240s " or in other words one need to be more attentive and more involved in a 240 and that probably counts most.
I will also say that in a controlled test with similarly tired cars, same drivers, similar road conditions and driving habits, an AWD will show more capability but 240s do have a place. This thread has started another thread about 240's in snow.
Regards,
--
DD-1990 240 DL SW M47II FI 3.1 234 K miles

See the following link:
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1393976/220/240/260/280/200series_cars_snow_good_bad_just_old.html

Believe it or not, I give the 240 "street kred" for snow handling with the proper tires! I'm sure Thor wears Gislaved running boots!

jorrell

--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

I assume you had "allseasons" on? Would you have made it all the way home with some great snow tires?
--
84 242Ti IPD bars&springs, 89 745 16v M46 IPD bars, 89 744 16v M46 IPD bars, 93 945 Turbo AW71, 91 245SE AW70 IPD bars, 93 245 CLassic M47

I'm glad you were safe..

My gripe with the newer ones is not, and never has been their technologies.. they are incredibly competent, comfortable, safe cars. In adverse conditions such as those you describe, there's not much I'd rather be driving than a XC.

Where my gripes do lie, however, is in the overall quality of individual components... Granted, there are little issues with 240s as well, but it seems there's a lot more issues with the newer cars. I'll admit for the most part, the newer cars are pretty reliable, but serviceability is not so good as a 240, so maintenance costs can quickly get astronomical.

Complex cars make for complex repairs. I'm sure properly maintained, the AWD cars could last forever, but.. I definitely believe you hit a point where it just ain't worth it at about 150-200k miles... and even the straight fwd cars.. well, my experience has been with the two 850 turbos I've had.. both came to a seemingly early demise with transmission failures at about 150k miles. Not acceptable in my opinion. A good friend recently sold her '98 XC for $600 because it needed about $3500 worth of work, and would have been worth $3k after the repairs were completed. About 160k miles. not acceptable in my opinion.

So.. basically, for me, it comes down to cost per mile. And I know.. you can't put a price on safety, but.. a 240 is a hell of a good compromise. Get good tires and slow down, and/or hunker down and stay put if you have that option..
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂

I agree with Matt-especially as to the good tires and slowing down when conditions dictate. Any 2000 lb metal, glass, plastic and rubber object will conform to the unforgiving demands of gravity, and so the 240 is usually best at protecting its occupants in battling sleet, snow and the inattentive uninsured other drivers sharing the road. Perhaps I can borrow an old flying saying-"Its better to be an old pilot than a bold pilot."

From one who has been in several of the above situations.

Todd
'83 244 230K, '93 244 147K, ex has '09 c30 10K

Maybe some day but not with 3 kids in school. I have helped my neighbor with his S60 and sad to say I don't want to work on it. I might feel better about it if it were mine but serious diagnosis has to be done at the dealer. I guess that is why you get extended warranties today.
Dan

Jorell, and everyone--

While I've never driven one, someday I'll likely have a XC70 (not until the 93 245 quits though, and that I hope is a long time from now).

But, here's the huge thing in my mind: I will strongly resist giving up the pure pleasure of driving a b230 engine.

That pretty mule of a workhorse engine, with its noise, its monster heart, its "I'm built for work, it's what I love to do, please get me out of the garage and on the road, anywhere, just drive me, 'cause I'm not happy unless I'm working" attitude: we all love that, do we not?

Every time I get into a new car of any type some are amazing not just Volvo's. I drive my Cousin's XC 70 or something like that. Its a all wheel drive Volvo. Drove great power kinda delayed then came on strong. I looked under the hood and its got a turbo. My mother keep telling me to sell some of my old junk and get me a new Car. The newest thing that I drive is a 94 Ram Air LT-1 SS Impala Clone. The new car cost a lot. So If I have to pay for it give me the 240 for some old chevy and the difference. greg

Heck I've had 2 of them, a 740 and a 745, they were great!!!










All kidding aside, the new ones are much safer, avoidance is just as important as robustness, and have creature comforts that the 200 series never dreamed of. a few years ago my Aunt went out and bought an S40 after borrowing my old 740 for a week, it's been a good car. I'll never have a new one however, if I'm going to spend that kind of $$$ it's going to be on a car that has a dealer within 250 miles ;-)

It's good you made it safe and sound.

I'm sure the new gen. of Volvo's have alot of good things going for them, I just don't see myself owning one ever. That goes for any new car though, with the odd exception. Just not into the styling of alot of newer vehicles and lets face it, I don't want to pay for any of the newer cars I really like. So I'll stick to the old Volvo's I love, kinda tempted to get an 850 with a manual trans just for the hell of it but then I come to my senses...

The older Volvos are nice and fun to drive, but AWD is great in the snow and rain slick roads. Plus the ABS is much better than it used to be. The 'new' AWD system coupled with traction control and engine management makes it almost impossible to spin out. I watched some BMW guys try to make an XC slide on watered down pavement, they just couldn't do it at any speed.

Safety is more than just surviving a 'hit', it is avoiding the hit that counts. Volvo is no longer a seat of the pants driver's car, it is a comfortable car that happens to be quite safe.

Klaus
--
Proud owner of a 220S. If I had more room, I would have more Volvos.

For myself, nothing is more gratifying than putting in second or third gear around a 4X4 on slippery hill in my 200/88. When a lot of snow falls I make excuses to get bread and milk.

F-150 and a CRV, not fun. Volvo brick, fun. Go figure.

You must have great tires. I'd take my 4x4 truck over my 240 any day.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars

I put Cooper Weathermasters 195/70 on all four corners. The beauty of the brick is ground clearance, weight distribution, balance, and low torque. And a social low profile.

The 88 200 I drive, when I stand back, seems to have more ground clearance than the other three Volvos I've owned. Maybe it's all the weight I've removed!

I've stripped the interior, back seat(now a mini stationwagon) all the useless panels and padding around the front interior(makes it easy to quickly work under the dash) ripped out AC, deleted front muffler, took off ugly plastic hubcaps, furnace plumbing on exhaust manifold, a brick on a diet.

I know it amounts to little, but as with a budget, every little bit helps.

I agree, there is nothing more fun than drifting around in new snow. But when you have to go somewhere with family in the car, AWD is the way to get to and from safely.

A 4X4 is not AWD. My Wrangler will spin all 4 wheels and let me slide off the road sideways. A great off road vehicle, lousey on interstates and other paved roads.

Klaus
--
Proud owner of a 220S. If I had more room, I would have more Volvos.

Hello All,

I have to say first I love them ALL older,and newer Volvos...
Like most people I started driving RWD cars, and I'm used to the feeling and predictability.

At the beginning of our 23" snowstorm in Philadelphia I took the 855 to run the necessary winter storm run- bank, groceries, sled etc...

The car passed safely and comfortably around a number of 4x4s and awd subys, and pick'em up trucks all spinning their wheels. my favorite was the land rover that slid toward me sideways at a stoplight, which I rolled away form thanks my rear view mirror and my attentiveness. the rover ended up stuck in a snow pile sliding completely through the intersection.

I arrived home with only one issue the brakes were fighting me back at low speeds- literally bucking and pushing back on my foot? what's that about?!

I was warm thanks to my heated seats and I arrived safely.
I then went on to move the irritable 120 before it got plowed in.
She was hard to stat and cold to the bone.

Once I was rolling in the street- I felt more comfortable in the old brick than in my 855. The braking was sure and strong, and the 120 really seemed glued to the road and less floaty. Creature comforts and a rear view mirror aside it was a better driving experience in the 120. I don't think I'd do a run down 95 in it as it stands today- but my bet is with little money and time- I could take the 120 anywhere, than the cost of making my 855 as fun as the 120.
I also have to remember the 760, and 740 that have since left me they were great in all conditions.

I saw a nice red c30 getting on the highway mid storm and it seemed to do well it the weather- maybe one day i'll have one of those too.

Happy holidays and safe returns to all!

greendread

Your 855 has ABS which was what was fighting your heavy brake foot. Keeps the front wheels from locking up so you don't have to pump the brakes.

I am glad to see others look in the rearview mirror :)

Klaus
--
Proud owner of a 220S. If I had more room, I would have more Volvos.

Hey Klaus-

Well yeah the abs- but it wasn't helping me stop the car so much?
I had to get off the pedal to get the pressure back... there's somethin' not right there- but no abs light.

greendread

Probably something simple like a caliper slide pin that is dirty and not letting up enough pressure. Usually on the rear brakes which never get any service :)

We are supposed to get our snow tomorrow...

Have fun,

Klaus
--
Proud owner of a 220S. If I had more room, I would have more Volvos.

My 4WD Dodge pickup is good on the highway in snow - I've towed 6-7-8K loads home up & down hills.

I think, yes, to get somewhere in a hurry in snow w/ family I'd take a modern AWD car over my pickup. With the truck you certainly can't go fast around corners in snow.

Also, yes, the Jeeps and LandCruisers we use around the farm aren't good on slippery pavement. Or in deep snow for that matter. Tractors or a CJ2 with good mudders that we used to have were the best for getting back into the fields and woods in snow. The light weight and low power of the CJ2 was key.

(With underinflated balloon tires the CJ2 was also the best thing I've had on a beach).
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars

Klaus,

You have always seemed to be a proponent of the newer Volvo technology. I have been a closet proponent for about three years, but what "Exe" did today, especially after hitting the "winter" button next to the shifter blew me away! No matter how hard I nailed the gas, the car applied brakes and controlled the transmission to keep the wheels from spinning. If I hit the brakes too hard intentionally, my action was attenuated to ensure traction was maintained. Yes, to an extent, I was trying to find the limit of modern traction control and ABS, but thankfully, I didn't get there! I'm sure the traction control has a limit mandated by the laws of physics that none of us can circumvent, but I must admit having such control under foot is truly impressive and reassuring!

Now all I have to do to satisfy my curiosity is to transfer that high tech to a Brick 240!

jorrell
--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

I apparently have this same system on my '06 Ford 500 AWD. Boring yes. Effective yes.

Related post. I've asked before and you've responded re: XC70s. We presently have 3 bricks (and a Lexus RX330, but it's no fun to drive and more like a minivan so has to go). I trust the '93 245 more for long trips and it holds more than the RX. Top candidates at the moment are a new Outback (especially if IPD ever gets some sway bars tested for the new ones) and an '06 XC70. (also might consider a 2010 Santa Fe if some of the improvements I've heard about materialize.). But back to the XC. It's a Volvo certified w/ 47K and 2.3 years remaining on warranty for $22.5K. New tires (Kumho) and front rotors. Basically honest local dealer. How's the price? What are likely uncovered expenses in next 40K miles?
Thanks.

I've driven the XC 70 and have owned several Volvos, including the P1800 (very sorry I sold that) the 850, and two 240's. These newer Volvos, are incredibly overpriced, cheap knock offs of German cars. BMW and Benz are tighter cars, VW has a tighter ride, Volvo safety is easily emulated in a Subaru for alot less. I have talked about this with a mechanic friend alot, he's the best mechanic I've ever known, and he says that the easiest car to repair once you hit the 100K mile mark is a Subaru. Simpliest and most efficient. All the cars in my family's fleet -- Mercedes Benz Eclass (250K), Volvo 240 (170)K), Toyota pickup (100) are above that chalk line, other than the Subaru which is new at 37K miles. Jorrell is a sharp guy -- he's helped me a lot, that's for sure -- and I'm glad his XC got him home in one piece. But the technology of those cars comes with a price. It means you sit at the dealer and get hosed every time a dash light comes on. I can't stand it and would prefer to drive 25 mph on the ice and just deal with it. Whatever happens in life's gonna happen anyway, whether you got traction control or not. Cigarette anyone?

Having spent some time hanging out at the local Volvo indie shop, I have to agree with you. Newer Volvos might be really great to drive, but you need to have a pretty fat wallet when something goes wrong. The whole networked module concept and VIDA have taken away virtually all DIY and small independent shop repair on these cars. I recently saw a car with one of those self-darkening rear view mirrors that had failed in the dark mode. Junkyard mirror? no way. It needs new software loaded into it. I forget the exact figure for that repair, but it was up in the neighborhood of $500, of which about $100 was the VIDA access fee and the cost for the software itself.

All new cars are going in this direction, you can't even put an aftermarket radio in a car anymore. With all the technology, sure a XC70 is going to be better in the snow than a 240, but the real question to me is... at what price?