It's pretty awful and I think it's the alternator belts.

That's the weird bit. This alternator has two belts. I've no idea why there are two. Neither appears to drive anything else.

This does not appear to be the original alternator. It's a Bosch and there's a Bosch manual in my owner's manual packet. The tightening bracket also appears to have been Macgyvered. An has a larger 13mm bolt head welded on... Weird stuff.
What's up with this? Can I remove the secondary alternator belt, or is there some reason it's one there?

well dog gonnit... I like the two belt setup.. especially today.

Couple days ago, I heard a knock.. thought my car was done for.. but then it went away. Today, I heard the knock again, but quiet.. I figured maybe just piston slap... as the oil pressure light does and did go out right away...

Oh.. sure, every now and again, the belts squeak, but it goes away after just a second.

Well, today one of the alternator belts shredded, and having no tools (though I did have a spare belt), I was damn glad to have that second pulley with a belt there.. It shrieked like the dickens, doing all the work on it's own, so.. having only 25 miles to home, I disabled the alternator and made it home safely and quietly.

Furthermore, with that belt missing, the knocks I'd heard are now gone.. must have been the belt coming apart, but the bad part always on the bottom when I had the hood open...

I have to go fix my car...

--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂

No offense, but what on earth were you doing driving a 240 around with NO TOOLS! It has a place for those, you know.

Next thing you know, you will be telling me you do not have a spare fuel pump relay, or a starter test wire, colapsable snow shovel, tow rope, pair coveralls, 2-ton floor jack, blanket, gallon of water, replacement wiper blades, jumper cables, multimeter, duct tape, bailing wire, tube of RTV, replacement bulbs for turnsignals and headlights, a length of of inner tube, or a flashlight!

My wife used to laugh at that tool kit...until I repaired a blown upper rad hose (duct tape, inner tube and RTV), a sheared off BW35 linkage pin (bailing wire), and many a stranded motorist flat tires (never use the factory jack unless you HAVE to) and dug them out of snowdrifts and then pulled the car back on the road. The kit, less the jack, fits into small canvas bag and the whole shebang goes into the wagon's under-floor cubby. Most used item in the kit...the coveralls.

Rant over.

Onkel Udo

Reminds me... I've got a nice pair of Blue "Volvo" coveralls I should put in the car.

I shouldn't have said 'no tools'.. I do keep most of the items on your list..(no pump relay, but I've got a jumper to bypass it, and I've got a spare pump and AMM) The problem is, with two 240s in the family, two Japanese motorcycles, among other vehicles and umpteen other projects.. my tools have a standard rotation system and don't always make it back to my car...

I was sans a 13mm socket, and I couldn't get that bolt with my crescent wrench.. it all worked out.

I was figuring on getting dirty when I did get home... but, thanks to an ex-neighbor and left for me his donor car.. I learned how wonderful it is to have a donor car that never had A/C.. took about 3 minutes to grab the belts of his car and put them on mine, all snugged up. Next project.. taking his power steering pump and mounting bracket so I can lose that A/C compressor once and for all... My A/C compressor mounts have failed, so it's sitting down there all caddywampus and threw it's belt last week... that incident may have caused the fatal damage to that alternator belt now that I think about it....
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂

I had the same rotating tool problem until I started rebuilding a barn-fresh 1979 BMW R100RT. After always going to the Volvo for tools and forgetting to put them back in the Volvo, I broke down and did a months worth of yard sales in the "old folks dying off" neighborhood. Amazing the quality, and condition, of tools you can find from guys who grew up in the age when if it broke...the one who could fix it was you.

For $35 I had all the non-specialty tools the BMW needed, plus a set of basic tools for the Mazda 323 and a BEATIFUL set of old cast-iron Rigid pipe wrenches including the 90 degree head 24"!

Now I need to get home so I can go back to tinkering on my old house, buy another old brick and convince my wife that I have earned another old Beemer!

Onkel Udo

ah... a man after my own heart... I too hit the sales regularly.

Even found a full set of whitworth wrenches once.. for a buck.

Gotta love it.

--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂

Hey Onkel,

I enjoyed the rant, though I began to smell sweet sarcasm when you got to the floor jack under the plywood. I figure Matt was just explaining to me via the OP our 240 alternator belt spare belt (redundancy provision) was indeed, at least once, alarmed, if the flapping isn't ignored.

You touch on something my dad taught me by example: roadside good Samaritan. Despite the news reports of evildoing "victims" it is good to hear the habit is yet alive.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

My dog is worried about the economy because Alpo is up to $3.00 a can.
That's almost $21.00 in dog money.
-Joe Weinstein

Actually, I used to have a low-profile 1 1/2 ton jack that fit in there but it was "borrowed" by a neighbor many years ago. I will have to find I new one if I get another brick.

I no longer stop for strangers in need unless I am alone in the car because I do not wish to put others in danger. Heck, I work in a war zone so I figure I will take my chances with someone broken down on the side of the highway or, more often, in rest are or gas station.

I will never forget how the travelling "community" came together when I was moving to Arizona for college. Just outside of Tucamcari (AKA 100 miles from nowhere) on I-40, an older couple had their hood up on Caddy that still had nubs on the tires. There was coolant everywhere. I reached in and found the lower rad hose had an inch-long split. This was when I learned the inner-tube-RTV-and-Duct-tape trick. I had the screwdrivers, and duct tape (inner tube came from roadside debris). Another traveller hade the rtv and yet another had the time to follow the couple until they got to the next town to make sure they made it OK. The old man was almost moved to tears that we all swooped in and saved his day.

Onkel Udo

Thanks for the detailed responses. The extra info helps me quite a bit.
Redundancy is nice, but I find it weird that they'd make the extra effort for the 240s, but not put a double-belt arrangement on the 740s and 940s carrying the same B230 engine.

I'm fairly sure that the noise is Alternator only. I loosened the bracket and lost the squeal but picked up a different ugly noise. Tightening the bracket did not lose the noise altogether, but it became a little less constant after re-tightening the brackets.

My guess is that I'll need a set of poly accessory mounts and/or a new pair of belts to fix this problem.

Time to move onto the next problem.

Old glazed over belts will squeal it may be time for new ones.
Dan

Hi there,

I've no idea why there are two.

My take is this is a 240 quirk that takes some getting used to.

Because (as I tell my kids) they all squeal at one time or another, I've put a lot of head scratching into this peculiar arrangement at the alternator. First, I don't subscribe to the redundancy theory, for avoiding breakdown. What good is redundancy without alarming? No, I believe there are two belts because with three pulleys there's not enough wrap on the small alternator pulley to hang on to it under peak loads with only one. Fact is, the later cars can't hold on to it with two.

The cars you are used to and 7/9 cars don't need two belts because, prior to the serpentine arrangement in FWD, alternators had their very own belts to get them whizzing at 2-3x engine rpms. As the 240 progressed from the 55A alternators in '76 to the 80A powerplants in the 90's, nothing changed in the geometry or rubber support of the three pulleys.

I also don't hold with the notion these belts have to be matched pairs. The fact is, we crank on the adjusters in every case to force the front belt to be tighter, so if they would have equal tension, an unmatched pair with the shorter belt inside would be better practically. That's the side effect of mounting the alternator on rubber bushings.

Anyhow the net result of this quirk, on the later 90's cars is, you pull the belts tighter to keep it from squealing in the morning, but the pulleys and belts get glazed, the bushings take a set, and you're doing it again, and again, until eventually, the coolant pump side load scares you into replacing the bushings, belts, and deglazing the pulleys.

Here's what the adjuster mechanism should look like.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

My father said there are two kinds of people in the world: givers and takers.
The takers may eat better, but the givers sleep better.

Hi There,

You have two belts because of the water pump located directly above your alternator. You want two belts unless you just love living on the edge. Back up so you do not loose a belt, loose water circulation, and warp an Al Head from overheating.

Most Volvos have a Bosch Alt by the way.

Easy stuff first:

The two belts are supposed to be matched. Getting two belts from the same batch run does the trick most all the time. If by some chance these are not matches and one belt is a longer than the other that will cause squeaking belts.

See if you can tighten up the belts Take a couple of 13mm wrenches or a socket and wrench and loosen (Do NOT REMOVE) the long bolt that holds the Alt to the Engine frame. Then loosen the 13mm nut (Just get it loose) and bolt that holds the rectangular block to the Curved arm. Take a 10mm socket and crank on the 10mm adjustment nut CW and start feeling the belt tension. You should be able to get both to snug up buy turning that nut. If you can get this to snug up the belts, take you time and retighten the 13mm nuts and bolts. Start it up and see if the incessant singing is gone or not. a lot of folks from the old school of pry over and tighten the bolt school of belt tightening have trouble with just tuning the 10mm nut to snug up a belt. I know because I used to be one of them. Just loosen the 13's and crank the 10mm is the trick to volvo belts.

Check and make sure that this is not the water pump bearing singing to you. It can sound just like the alternator and sing just as loud or louder. That you want to fix right away.

If belts are matched and still one belt is tight and the other is looser, you problem is most likely a well know one on the 240 and 740, worn accessory bushings.. There are three bushing on the alternator. The one that catches the worst of it is located under the adjustment arm . There is a 13mm bolt that holds this on the block, you will have to take the 13mm nut and bolt off the adjustment bolt block to remove it.. The other two are what the long bolt goes through on the bottom side of the alternator. They get oil soaked and loose shape over time. That can allow the Alt to lean inwards and one of the belts most ofter the back one can sing to you.

Hope this helps,

Paul

The alternator and waterpump/fan are driven by twin belts. That's true for all 1985-on 240's I've looked at. Have never paid attention to earlier cars. I guess the idea is that charging and cooling are essential functions, and redundant drive belts significantly reduce the chance of a breakdown.

If somethings squealing, you probably need to replace the rubber mounting bushings for the alternator. Three of them, I think. They're cheap, and it's not a hard job. Most people here recommend urethane bushings for longevity.

At least your replacement alternator is Bosch. Mine is some no-name aftermarket crap.

john