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Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

posted by  MrNabisco on  Thu Aug 27 13:32 CST 2009
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last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
[RELATED]

My 1991 245 won't run.

I pulled the injectors, sent them off to be cleaned and reinstalled them. The car will barely start, runs very very rough and only stays running at higher RPM.

The car was hard to start before I had the injectors cleaned but ran OK once warmed up. I was hoping clean injectors would help. I think I have all the hoses and wires in place and the injectors are seated properly.

The fault code light reads "1-1-1".

I did remove and clean the air mass meter. I did this with CRC AMM cleaner and a delicate touch. I don't think I damaged the sensor.

Would a bad AMM show these rough low idle symptoms?

Could I have accidentally killed the AMM by unplugging it with the ignition switch on?

Throttle switch is relatively new.

Bad O2 sensor?

Oil trap?

Thanks for any help.







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    Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

    posted by  MrNabisco on  Wed Sep 2 12:56 CST 2009
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    last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    I should add the coil is a MSD red coil I put in a few years ago. I'd be really surprised if it died. But how would I check it for sure?

    Magnacor plug wires for whatever that's worth.

    Bert








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      Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

      posted by  pageda on  Wed Sep 2 13:03 CST 2009
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      last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
      [RELATED]

      OK, are the plugs wet with fuel? If so could be the power stage.
      Dan








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        Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

        posted by  MrNabisco on  Wed Sep 2 13:07 CST 2009
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        last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
        [RELATED]

        Yep, getting fuel.

        I'll look into the power stage. Not sure what that is and if the LH3.1 system has it.

        I have changed the CPS. Have not tried unplugging it and plugging back in...

        Thanks.

        Bert








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    Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - NO SPARK! 200

    posted by  MrNabisco on  Wed Sep 2 12:43 CST 2009
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    last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    Update: Things going from bad to worse. No spark from coil.

    Now there is no spark coming from the coil when I crank the engine.
    There is power going to the coil.
    All the fuses look good.

    What is even worse is now the fault code box does not light up. ???

    At this point I have no idea what is wrong with the car. I have done a lot of work on this car and been able to find most any problem that occurred but this one has me beat.

    First it was hard to start. Cleaned the injectors and AMM.
    Then it would start but not keep running. Swapped in a new O2 sensor.
    Now no spark coming out of the coil.

    ?????

    Thanks for any help.

    Bert








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    Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

    posted by  raidman on  Sun Aug 30 09:37 CST 2009
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    last visit: Fri Apr 4 22:17 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    I had a similar situation with my 93 245 and it turned out that I had installed the Crank Position Sensor crooked and after I re-installed it correctly (took several weeks to find the problem) it has been a champ from then on.
    See what your CPS is like (worn insulation, broken wires, etc).
    buena suerte,
    el raidman








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      Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

      posted by  MrNabisco on  Sun Aug 30 14:53 CST 2009
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      last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
      [RELATED]

      Thanks for the tip.
      I did put in a new CPS about 15-20k miles ago. Can't imagine it failed but you never know.

      Did a quick spark test and got no spark at the plug. Work continues...

      Will a dead ECU kill the spark?

      Bert








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    Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

    posted by  david hunter on  Sat Aug 29 16:42 CST 2009
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    last visit: Mon Jun 30 22:10 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    I agree with your plan to get back to the basics. Diagnosis by parts replacement is expensive and time consumimg. The more parts you replace the more likelyhood of developing a secondary problem. It is generally thouht that you should never unplug the AMM with engine running. Same as O2 sensor a bad or disconnected AMM will not prevent a start. They are not even used during starting, same for flame trap, idle switch. Very little is needed to start.
    Basics: spark, fuel and compression. For compression make sure cam timing is correct.
    --
    David Hunter








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    Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

    posted by  MrNabisco on  Sat Aug 29 12:18 CST 2009
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    last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    Second Update: Car still does not run.

    Replaced O2 sensor with Bosch 13913. Now engine will not start at all. No kick. Do not know if this is related to the new O2 sensor.

    Have a replacement ECU coming in the mail. We'll see what that does.

    Bert








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    Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

    posted by  MrNabisco on  Fri Aug 28 11:14 CST 2009
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    last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    Update: Still not working.

    Cleaned the IAC. Replaced flame trap. Replaced plugs. Double checked all hoses and wiring. Fault code still "1-1-1".

    Picked up O2 sensor and will try to install tomorrow.

    This is what happens...
    I can turn the key not touch the gas pedal and the car starts right up, runs at 1100 RPM for about two seconds and then dies. Sounds fine for those two seconds. I can get it to run longer if I play with the gas and get the RPMs higher but it doesn't sound happy. Not coughing or back firing, just won't keep a steady RPM.

    The car has 180k+ miles on it but bad valves or something wouldn't sound smooth for those two second right?

    Maybe I should go ahead and put in another AMM? Could the IAC be dead?

    Bert







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    Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

    posted by  pageda on  Thu Aug 27 13:51 CST 2009
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    last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    Disconnect the AMM (key off), if it starts and idles fine the AMM is bad.
    Dan








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      Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

      posted by  MrNabisco on  Thu Aug 27 14:00 CST 2009
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      last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
      [RELATED]

      Thanks for the tip. Just tried it and no luck. Same symptoms with AMM unplugged.

      Bert








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        Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

        posted by  pageda on  Thu Aug 27 14:06 CST 2009
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        last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
        [RELATED]

        What is the condition of the cap, rotor, spark plugs and wires? Have you cleaned the throttle body and IAC valve?
        Dan








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          Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

          posted by  MrNabisco on  Thu Aug 27 14:15 CST 2009
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          last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
          [RELATED]

          Cap, rotor and plugs are relatively new. Maybe 10-15k on wires. 2k on plugs. I will change the plugs tomorrow.

          Cleaned throttle body awhile back, 10-15k?

          IAC valve? Not sure which part that is.

          I have an extra flame trap whic I will swap in tomorrow.

          O2 sensor?

          Bert








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            Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

            posted by  pageda on  Thu Aug 27 14:24 CST 2009
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            last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
            [RELATED]

            Bosch recommends replacing at 60 k miles, you can get the Bosch 13913 at Autozone for about $40. Cut off the Ford connector and crimp connect your Volvo connector for a perfect fit, I have done this several times with great results.
            Look at or replace all vacuum lines and check the accordion inlet tube (between AMM and TB) for cracks and air leaks. You can spray water or carb cleaner around the intake manifold gasket and injectors listening for a change in idle.
            Dan








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              Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

              posted by  MrNabisco on  Thu Aug 27 14:32 CST 2009
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              last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
              [RELATED]

              Yep, been thinking of getting the Bosch 13913, just hope the old sensor comes out easy enough.

              Do the 3 wires need to be connected in a specific way?

              Looks like a new O2 sensor, new plugs and an IAC bath and we'll see what happens.

              Thanks.

              Bert








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                Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                posted by  MrNabisco on  Thu Aug 27 14:35 CST 2009
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                last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
                [RELATED]

                Found the sensor wiring info...

                Bert








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                  Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                  posted by  pageda on  Thu Aug 27 15:08 CST 2009
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                  last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
                  [RELATED]

                  Autozone will loan you the tool.
                  Dan








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                    Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                    posted by  david hunter on  Thu Aug 27 17:24 CST 2009
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                    last visit: Mon Jun 30 22:10 CST 2014
                    [RELATED]

                    O2 sensor will not affect starting. It is not even in the circuit until it heats up. Cleaning injectors will not cause another part to suddenly fail. If the condition came right after installing injectors it has something to do with that. Review your work carefully.

                    --
                    David Hunter








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                      Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                      posted by  MrNabisco on  Fri Aug 28 06:16 CST 2009
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                      last visit: Wed Oct 22 12:36 CST 2014
                      [RELATED]

                      I agree that cleaning the injectors won't make the O2 sensor fail. But I figure I should change it anyway.

                      What is confusing is the car was tough to start the last time I drove it before pulling the injectors, now this...

                      I will clean the IAC and double check all connections, etc.

                      Thanks.

                      Bert








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                      Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                      posted by  pageda on  Thu Aug 27 22:42 CST 2009
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                      last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
                      [RELATED]

                      My point was if it is old enough or you don't know for $40 why not just replace it.
                      Dan







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                        Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                        uid 27's pic
                        posted by  Art Benstein on  Fri Aug 28 01:26 CST 2009
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                        last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
                        [RELATED]

                        Hi Dan,

                        How long is the cable on one of those Mustang sensors, the 13913? In other words, where does the crimp splice wind up? I'm thinking Ford... Probably not hard to find the harness connector.
                        --
                        Art Benstein near Baltimore

                        The professor discovered that her theory of earthquakes was on shaky ground.







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                          Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                          posted by  pageda on  Fri Aug 28 11:08 CST 2009
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                          last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
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                          Art
                          It is not as long as the Volvo one so you need to snip the old one off near the sensor.

                          The Ford connector looks good are you planning on using these connectors?.
                          Dan







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                            Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                            uid 27's pic
                            posted by  Art Benstein on  Fri Aug 28 11:18 CST 2009
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                            last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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                            The Ford connector looks good are you planning on using these connectors?

                            Not if it has to live under the car. If it reached up past the bend into the engine compartment, even just a little, then it might make sense.
                            --
                            Art Benstein near Baltimore

                            What did 'cured' ham actually have?








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                              Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200

                              posted by  pageda on  Fri Aug 28 11:23 CST 2009
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                              last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
                              [RELATED]

                              Not that model # but I would think some other application would have a longer lead. As I recall the connector looked really nice and waterproof sealed.
                              Dan








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                                Cleaned Injectors Now Car Won't Run - AMM Dead? 200 1990

                                uid 27's pic
                                posted by  Art Benstein on  Sat Aug 29 02:41 CST 2009
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                                last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
                                [RELATED]

                                If it is that weatherproof, it might be quicker than splicing. The harness side could be yanked back up to install the plug in a comfortable place, but I assume most people using the universals or the Mustang sensors aren't doing splices on their backs under the car, but have the whole thing pulled out.

                                I don't get much practice at this, because I don't replace them proactively. I only ruined one with a tranny seal leak, and I replaced it with a 4-wire unit I found on ebay under "spark plugs". Lucky buy.


                                --
                                Art Benstein near Baltimore

                                I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.







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