So about a week and a half ago, I was involved in a non-injury accident and my '70 1800E took a hit to the nose (right headlight area, bumper and fender crushed in a bit). It was the other driver's fault and their insurance (Progressive) is taking full liability. Originally, their guy estimated the repair costs to be quite comparable to what Jim Fisher Volvo's body shop had estimated. Then I got a phone call from the Progressive guy saying "by the way we found 'additional damage' and it's going to be a total loss".

My question: How can I come up with the best appraisal for my car to avoid it being "totaled", keeping in mind things like the vintage/rarity of the car. Obviously this is not just some Honda Civic and I can't just go out and find an identical replacement. I just want my car fixed and back on the road.

(Also, who should I trust in the Portland area to do the body work besides Jim Fisher?)

Any tips are much appreciated. Thanks.

Here's an idea. Did you carry insurance (collision and comp.)on the 1800 ? And if so, was it a stated value policy or some other type of policy which would have paid a reasonable am't should you have been at fault and the 1800 was totaled in the process ? If so, this might establish a value for the car since your ins. co. would not have been willing to value your 1800 at an unreasonable figure. good luck, Mike

Unfortunately I did not have collision coverage, just liability.

As for the repair estimates, Progressive's original repair estimate was about 4,300, and Fisher's was 4,600. Then Progressive decided that the uncertainty of fixing the car (due to it's age/parts availability/etc.) bumped their estimate to 5-6k (potentially) and now they're wanting to just write me a 4k check and be done with it.

I'm seeing other 1800s going for 6k (in the US for decent shape, somewhat similar or better than mine) to 25k (in Aus for the restored cars). Anyone ever been successful at getting an insurance company to pay for repairs after they've extended a total loss offer?

Start by just refusing their offer, again and again.. it's their responsibility to make you right, and they will try to do that, even against their will... Until you sign the check, you're in charge.

A friend was in an accident, not his fault, in a beat up '70s Ford pickup... Insurance first tried to total it out at around $2k, he refused. They came back with about $2500 (about what the truck was probably worth).. he refused. Came back a third time with an offer of $9k, which he took of course... Having done all his own work, he had no reciepts.. just his word, which they took.

--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂

Hi there,

My dad owned an insurance agency most of his working life, but I confess I never had a lick of interest in the family business. I did absorb a few things osmotically, the most important of which: laws are different at each state line.

Before the advent of no-fault laws, I understood your claim as victim was not with the "other guy's" insurance company, but with the other guy, or at-fault driver, and you have no obligation to dicker with his insurer. In most cases, the mere threat of going to court would result in a settlement to your liking as long as it is reasonable. Your repair estimates support that reasonableness, and the value of the car on the market should not enter into it if they are to make you whole.

In my state I have only one experience like this, with an old Volvo, and for me it was easy to accept the offer made by the at-fault driver's insurance company once I made it clear they would not be getting title to the car based on their estimate of total value. No buy back, no salvage title, just a check. Like I say, I don't know the law, and how it differs in other states, but I believe strongly it is your right to pursue being "made whole" by the person responsible. Their insurer works in his interest, not yours. However, I am not so naive as to imagine what seems right, is practical or legal.

Love to hear more points of view and discussion on this often-raised topic with the old car hobby.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

I have a hard time deciphering the fine line between boredom and hunger.

This has always been a fear of mine - getting into an accident and (assuming that it wasn't my fault) having the other guy's insurance total my car. It isn't worth much at all considering the mileage and body condition; it's value doubles every time I get a new set of tires.

All I would want is enough money to buy a comparable Volvo or at least get mine restored to the way it was, even with used parts and body panels.
--
Mike F - 1984 244 DL - 285,000 miles
Original engine, transmission, drive train, starter
Undergoing reconstructive surgery with POR-15

Your post indicates that all of your dealings so far have been with the other guy's insurance. What does your insurance cover? Collision? Do you have any additional "collector car" insurance that would cover the actual cost to repair? If so, you might be better off submitting the claim to them, then letting them subrogate against the other driver.

It's been my experience that it's better to deal with your own carrier in most cases, especially if you have a long term relationship with that company and your agent.

Also, they're telling me that because they've made their offer, they're only giving me a rental car for three days while I consider whether to take it or not. I have a feeling we'll be going back and forth over the estimates/appraised value of the car longer than that. Any pointers in regards to their obligation to replace my out-of-commission vehicle?

(The 1800 is not legally drivable, fyi. Headlight is way out of whack, and fender scrapes into tire when going over bumps.)

If Jim Fisher's quote was comparable... Show the insurance company that.
What additions did they find that raised the price, they may be debatable.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

First, have Progressive provide a full written description of this "additional" damage, then have Jim Fisher confirm the damage so that they can adjust their estimate.

Aside from that - if the repair estimate is greater than 80% of the market value of the vehicle, it will be declared a total loss. So the task becomes proving the market value is high enough that they're still obligated to pay for repairs. Check Hemmings, NADA, check in with iRoll Motors, look at ebay -- essentially, look everywhere anyone is selling an 1800 in similar condition so that you can establish a high dollar value for yours. There's more than one 1800 here in Portland with an appraised value greater than $20K - so it can be done.

OR

Take their money, buy the totaled car back (about $75), then have Jim Fisher fix it and live with a title branded with the word "reconstructed" across the top.

Best,

Cameron
444,122SC
Rose City

Remember one thing. If they want to "total" your car, you have the first refusal to buy it at salvage price. My 88 240 wagon (mint condition) was hit and totaled (over 70 % value) several years ago. I kept the car as salvage, and the insurance co. deducted $350 from the book value which they paid to me.Good luck

Tell Progressive that your vehicle is a "classic" or "collector" car and cannot be totaled until the repair gets to the bone crusher stage. The amount to repair must exceed 75% of the car's worth to get to salvage status. Let the agent know that you are a collector and this is not a commuter car. Send him a couple of ads in Autotrader.com

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/find/vehicle/vehicleSearchResults.xhtml?refined=true&model=P1800&keywords=&address=&firstRecord=1&numRecords=25&make=Volvo&conversationId=132618

There are 3 on that list, $16K to $6K. Find your "reasonable price" and don't forget sweat equity.

Klaus
--
The more I learn, the more I forget. So why learn?

As Cameron said, the insurance company will try to convince you it's a $500 car since it's a 40 year old import..... Having totalled a couple of 1800s in my days, you will have to fight with them. I have also got one totaled car back from them. They 'charged' me 20% of the final settlement value to keep the car. Thus I ended up with a rolled car, a check for 80% of what I thought it was worth and I never surrendered the title so I don't know how that played out as I sold the stripped carcass to another guy.

Another very good source of compairable 1800's for sale is Australia. There are still lots of very nice 1800 on the road down there. The best site for finding nice 1800 cars down there: http://www.carpoint.com.au/used-cars/search.aspx?N=279+1426+4294967019+4294898742+&RegionID=&Region=(all%20regions)&Model=P1800

Remember that the prices are in AUD (1AUD = .83USD).

Chris

Hello,

I have dealt with several insurance companies over the years and this is what I have experienced.

The value of your car BEFORE the accident occurred must be established.

The more customer friendly insurance companies can provide a specialist appraiser to help determine value.

The appraiser will want to get all of repair receipts and records for your car.

Give him receipts for everything you have had done including any improvements like stereos and alarms.

If neither of the insurance companies have a specialist, you can try to deal directly with the insurance company by getting your own independent specialist appraisal to help establish value.

After you have a consensus on the value, then you determine the percentages.

In my experience, you will have to concede as much as 30% to keep the car.

But if you do have to buy it back, make sure that the regristration does not reflect a salvaged title.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502