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I am going to hire my girlfriend's high school aged brother and keep him busy for the rest of the summer working on my 65' PV and getting it ready for body work and paint. I want to pay him for about 120 hours worth of labor over the course of about 6 weeks. He is a smart guy and works hard, so I am hoping to make some headway on this project and for my money go towards his goal of saving up for a car. I would like to add that my end goal for the PV is a respectable daily driver done with my college sized budget with most of the work done by the two of us with help from our local Volvo gurus. The car has some rust issues and I will try to include some photos in a subsequent post to show you what I am working with.
I talked with Shannon about it today (sdewolfe around these parts) and he suggested a panel by panel approach to stripping and priming. I have a 5" electric DA sander (Porter Cable 7424XL) that I just ordered sandpaper for. I purchased 25 each of 40 grit, 100 grit, and 180 grit paper. I also sourced suitable simi-rigid backing plates and dust masks.
A couple of questions:
1.) What can we use as a suitable stand to work on each piece? Ive seen the body shop folding stands, but I sure someone on the board might have a more cost effective and sturdy solution that keeps the piece in place while we are working. I am wondering if the best bet is to leave the panel in place for some of the work and then remove it for the corners and such.
2.) What should I treat the bare metal with before I prime? There is an overwhelming amount of information regarding this on the web and I need some suggestions. Keep in mind: I am in Houston, the birth place of humidity.
3.) I do not have a powerful air compressor, so I can not shoot the primer on. I think this rules out all the PPG DLP stuff I've read about. What is a good primer that I can roll on piece by piece and will be compatible with a decent paint? Is this a bad approach as I will be putting body filler over this primer later?
4.) What is the best way to tackle the rust and bondo issues we are sure to discover? Should we just poke the bondo out and start over or sand it smooth and just go with it? I assume the later, but don't want problems down the road. When we encounter substantial rust, what is the best policy for containment until I can get the body shop to weld in new pieces. The rear of inside lip of the trunk is non-existent, but oddly the spare wheel well is pretty solid. The floors look good enough too.
Whew, this was a long one, but I need some serious direction. Thanks!
Tyler
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Couple of suggestions on primer and stands.
First I recommend that you visit your local Wal*Mart and purchase as many cans of Duplicolor Self Etching Primer that you feel comfortable having around the house. This is great stuff and absolutely the first thing you need to put on bare metal to stop any residual rust that has escaped your sanding slave, and then it seals the metal so that when you apply the "base" primer (thick and gooey stuff), that coat fills in all the imperfections that you do not need Bondo for later.
As for work stands? "Cheap" is Sawhorses with bungi cords and C-Clamps.
Your choice of sandpaper is on the rough side. You need to leave some metal and don't make additional scratches that you will have to fill in later. By the way, my personal philosophy is to use as little bondo as possible, put it on too thick and it always seems to screw up a paint job within a couple years.
Make sure that you and your capable assistant address the interior surfaces as well. Recommend that you pull the interior panels off of the doors and take a look in there. Routinely the bottom of the door is pretty much eaten away in a car like you have pictured. Same goes with the windshield and rear window frames.
Also recommend the use of spray Brake Cleaner to get rid of sticky stuff and grime. Just make sure that you don't inhale "too much" of this stuff otherwise you and GF's brother may have all your hair fall out and solidify your liver.
Using rubber gloves and a respirator is always a good idea when kicking up dust and painting.
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Phil,
Would you recommend I start with an 80 grit paper? There is so much conflicting information out there, I really did not know where to start, so I just ordered what the book I picked up from the library recommended. I can still modify my order as the backing plate is on back order until Wednesday...
The self etching primer seems like the way to go. I've spent more time that I care to admit reading through threads about all these different primers merits. Everyone has their own opinion on putting body filler before or after the primer, but I assume either way seems to work.
This is the process order I intend to follow:
1.) clean bare metal panel with wax and de-greaser, allow to flash
2.) Spray with self-etching primer
3.) Do the body work
4.) Guide coat and block
5.) Spay on a high build primer
6.) Dive into $50 paint project
Good call on the brake cleaner. I managed to get that just a drop of that in my eye a few months back working on my daily driver. It was not much fun for anyone involved when I came into the house hollering for water. Needless to say, Ill be wearing glasses when working with that stuff. I've always worn gloves, but was just rushing through to finish the car in time for day light and paid for it dearly.
I think the saw horses with some clamps and bungee cords will be just the ticket. I have two folding ones at my disposal that should be great.
Thanks for all the advice. I will report back with progress and photos.
Tyler
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I would NOT recommend starting with 80 grit sandpaper. Instead use 120 and you will spend a lot less time later getting scratches and swirl marks out of the primer/paint.
I know you are on a budget and have access to cheap labor, but in the interest of getting the job done, have you priced out having the car Soda Blasted? There are entrepreneurs who will come to your location and do this - seemingly for $300 - $500 if prices in Houston are in line with the rest of the country.
Soda is not that hard on the metal and leaves a nice smooth finish to lay paint on.
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Sounds like a project right up my alley... Best of luck. I did a similar thing to an old boat that was donated to me and the results were more than satisfactory (no rust issues of course).
The pictures of your car look really good to me. Houston may be the birthplace of humidity but it's far removed from the snowbelt. I surely don't want to take an opportunity away from your GF's brother to make some money but hear me out...
I'd consider $10 per hour a minimum fair wage for honest sanding work. That times 120 = $1200. My guess is that for considerably less you can get the entire car media blasted. The results will be far superior to hand (machine) sanding and you will expose all of your issues. You will also do less damage to good sheet metal, particularly if you plan to start out with 40 grit paper. You can use the money left over to get your friend to do some other work (mechanical, sanding p primer, etc).
I know the PC RO sander well; I have two of them and have used them for all sorts of boat and project work. Can't say enough good things about it! That having been said, I know very little about automotive body work but hand sanding with long boards seems to be the way to go. I know it sounds expensive but you may be able to source a second hand reliable and robust compressor that will allow you to shoot paint the way you like it and use pneumatic sanders which are available for very little money from places like Harbor Freight, etc. Those sanders come in all varieties of configurations including long board.
Anyway, best of luck. You'll be stoked by the results for sure!
KaiS
'67 Duett
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Kai,
I could not stand to hear this guy say he was going to send this car to the crusher if he did not find a home for it soon, so against all good judgment, which I seem to exhibit frequently around round fender Volvos, I decided to bring this home.
I really appreciate the honest advice about media blasting. I had considered that route, but the ball park quotes I got were around $500-700 for an outside job (billed by the hour) and about double that for inside and out. That did not include shooting the car in primer, which around here would need to be done very shortly after the blasting, if not onsite. Not to mention transportation and time. I am paying the brother $10 an hour, and hope to get some paint and body work done on the car in those 120 hours. Since my material costs are going to be pretty low, I think the $1200 labor + $200 material costs should seem reasonable to walk away with a decent looking 10 foot paint job. I could be crazy and really off on this, as I understand these projects (like most) rarely stay on budget and have huge cost overuns.
So far I've been toying with two ideas. The second one seems to make more sense:
1.) Strip the panels individually and shoot in an epoxy primer. Invest in a decent compressor and HVLP set up. Build a crude paint room in the garage out of plastic sheeting and make sure to have proper ventilation. Do the body work we are capable of and hire my crazy art car welder friend to help me with the parts I can not do. He has assured me that he only accepts payment in the form of beer. I think I can do that.
2.) I am seriously considering the $50 paint method that has been discussed widely over the internet and even here on the BrickBoard, so I will not go into all the gory details involved, but it seems pretty straightforward. 3 cans of Rustoleum, Mineral Spirits, and High Density Foam Rollers. I have explained the grunt work involved with wet-sanding after each process to the brother, and he seems agreeable. If we go this route I will make sure to take LOTS of pictures detailing what we do and put them up on my website.
$50 Paint Job on Corvair
$50 Paint Job on Mopar Board
The plan for my day off tomorrow is for us to get some cans of Self Etch Primer, a proper respirators, wire brushes of all sorts and sizes, and the supplies for the $50 paint job.
I will keep you all posted through this thread on our progress. I am sure this will be a good bonding experience and hopefully we will learn a lot.
Tyler
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That Corvair looks damn nice for what he did.. neato. I think the author summed it up best in his 'one year after' update... saying:
"I've come to the conclusion there is no middle ground with auto painting. Either go as cheap as possible, accepting the limitations and flaws and enjoying the feeling of doing it for nearly nothing, or, go all out. Anything in between is going to be a disappointment, no matter what. There is no such thing as a satisfactory "mid-level" paintjob. "
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Ha...this was at an auto shop in humble....right? I looked at it about a year ago. I wanted to buy it but just didnt have the space for another volvo. I am glad that it went to someone who will put it right again....good luck.
Dean
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Dean,
It sure was. I got a heck of a deal on it, and decided it was worthy of saving. We have made a good amount of progress in the past two weeks. I will have pictures and updates along with questions soon.
Tyler
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Oh to be young with a vision again.............
I admire your ambition. Things take at least 6 times longer than you will plan for and cost at least 10 times more than you thought.
Ten cents worth of free advice. Take things slow and a system at a time; brakes, engine, interior, exterior, etc.
Good luck!
Leonard
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Great looking 444 you have there Leonard. The systems approach is the way to go. I think my systems approach of starting with the body is COMPLETELY backwards, but I'll live and learn on this one. Can't turn down a good helper! I'll need all the luck I can get.
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