Hi Folks,

It's been a while since I've been on the board. The head gasket job I performed earlier this year is doing swell.

Recently my 1992 Volvo 245 (roughly 176,000 miles) began to have intermittent driveability problems. The problems include:

1. Stalling at low speeds with the foot off the gas pedal. Especially at stop lights and while in parking lots.

2. Stalling when starting the car up first thing in the morning.

3. Very rough idle and low idle. When this happens the engine is rocking back and forth roughly in the engine bay.

4. Intermittent hessitation when accelerating from a stop. The hessitation is severe and sometimes causes the car to stall. Other times pumping the gas pedal will get the car moving. But it is bogging down almost like it is starving for fuel.

5. Check Engine light has come on twice with codes. 1-1-3 and 2-3-2. Something like running too rich or too lean and fuel injector failure if I remember correctly.

So anyway, these are the symptoms I'm having. Sometimes the car drives, idles, and runs great. Other times the car has lots of trouble just running correctly at idle.

So far I have done the following:

A. Cleaned the throttle body.

B. Cleaned the IAC.

C. Checked for vacuum leaks or unconnected hoses.

I'm due for a tune up anyway, so I will be replacing the distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs, plug wires, air cleaner, and fuel filter.

Besides that is there anything else I should be looking at?

I'm wondering if these types of symptoms are an indicator that the in-tank fuel pump is going bad.

Thanks for any advice you guys might have.

13

In case anyone is still following this thread, here's an update.

1. The car is running fine and has been running fine no matter what the level of the fuel in the gas tank is.

2. No stalling. No hesitation. Steady idle.

3. Still waiting for tune-up parts to arrive from IPD (boy are they slow).

4. So far the only corrective action I've taken is to:

- Clean the throttle body
- Clean the fuel pump fuse connections (main pump and in-tank pump)and went ahead and just replaced with new fuses
- Cleaned the IAC valve with carb cleaner

I'll complete the rest of the tune-up items such as spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter, plug wires, cap and rotor since they are due for replacement anyway.

13

Guys,

I've gone 220 miles and no stalling yet. Idle is steady below 1000 rpm. No hesitation. I'll keep monitoring it as the gas needle lowers.

Tom

I had a very similar problem with my 90 765 T/I. It turned out to be the Fuel Pump Check Valve and one of the Radio Relays (K?). So after 3 months of frustration and $3k at the dealer, problem was solved.
Good luck!

I do not have the expertise that many have on this board but your symptoms remind me a bit of a couple of my 240s when I needed to replace my in-tank fuel pump. Is your tank less than half full? If it is under half full and you are experiencing these symptoms then it could be the little short fuel hose that runs from the little pump up to the sender pipe may have a hole in it and it is sucking in air within the tank. This will cause hesitation. The low idle is a bit weird. An easy way to test this is to top off the tank and drive it to see if the problem continues. If all is good with a tank over half full or better then it likely is that pump. If your tank is full and the problems persist then look elsewhere. One time I found terrible rust and trash in the gas tank and had to replace the whole tank. Cured the problem. I generally replace the little hose AND the pump. It is just a thought.

Thanks for the helpful post J.

I was fearful that the problem could be related to the in-tank fuel pump. I filled up the Volvo on Sunday and it is running better. I'll see how it does on an empty tank. By the way, how hard a job is it to replace the pump? Does the short fuel hose come with the pump if I buy a new one, or do I need to buy it as a separate part?

Here's an update on the driving.

Last night drove around town on a few shopping errands and no problems. Car started well. No stalling. No bogging down or hesitation. Steady idle.

This morning after car had been sitting all night it started up fine. No stalling. Steady idle. No bogging down or hesitation.

13

Hello Dan,

If this is when you try and take off from a light, lots of bucking stalling, followed by suddenly catching and then runs fine until the next red light. Sometimes it seems to run better, and suddenly you find it had to get away from a standing stop......

Check your Fuel Pressure Regulator, pull the vacuum hose off and if you even get a whiff of gas odor change it. Also check the vacuum line from the throttle body to the regulator.

If that is the cause of your problem the next failure mode is spectacular and not in a good way.

Good Luck,

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into the FPR this weekend. What exactly am I looking for and how do I check it?

Are these cheap to replace?

Thanks,

Tom

Hello Dan,

The Fuel Pressure Regulator is connected between the fuel rail and gas line coming from the main pump. One of the failure modes is when the engine is starved for fuel as there is the need for higher amounts (like acceleration from a dead stop). There is a vacuum line from the throttle body and it is connected to the regulator.

My 86 had stalling problems when you needed to take off from a dead stop. Started getting to be an adventure at times, but if you took it easy on the petal the engine started out bucking and jerking, and would suddenly catch and away you went. The problem was intermittent at first and slowly got worse. Once the engine smoothed out the car would run just fine.

Changed plugs, wires, cleaned the throttle body, and fixed vacuum leaks without fixing the problem. Debated having either the catalytic converter or the in-tank pump replaced to fix the problem

Before I could decide what to try next, the problem made itself known in spectacular fashion. One nice warm afternoon running with the speed of traffic (mid 70's), as I took my foot off the gas pedal headed into a toll booth the engine died. Coasting up to the line of cars waiting to pay, checked the rear view mirror for traffic. To my shock Inga was trailing a massive plume of thick white smoke. Could not get the engine to restart and had to push her through the toll booth and into a disabled vehicle area. Waiting for roadside assistance suddenly became aware of a overwhelming gas odor coming through the windows. Got out and walked around the car and she smelled like a Molotov cocktail and the odor seemed to be everywhere. Had the car carried to my pro's shop and when she was being lowering off the ramp of the truck, drops of gas were dipping out the tailpipe.

The fuel pressure regulator was suggested as the cause by the BB and my pro confirmed that was the problem the next AM. He wanted to change my oil and let the vacuum lines dry out before I picked her up. The diaphragm in the regulator had failed and the vacuum lines were filled with gas. The plume of white smoke was unburned gas going out the exhaust manifold and evaporating as it hit the heat of the catalytic convertor and exhaust. After the new regulator was installed and the oil changed, Inga fired right up. The plume of white smoke returned for a couple of minutes as the remaining unburned gas in the exhaust evaporated. It was the next day before the gas odor died down even after all that. My pro had the car pushed outside to install the new regulator because of the strength of the fumes and had his parts runner take Inga out for a spin around the block until the smoke died down from the tailpipe.

Hope this helps,

Paul

Hi 13,

When the tank pump acts up, it is usually hot weather and long trips. The problem, I think, is vapor. Its job is to keep the stream of fuel going into the main pump "solid" - that is, no vapor. So with a full tank the car will run without a tank pump if the fuel is cool.

The short hose does not come with any pump I've bought. I looked in the parts catalogs for the molded bellows-style hose I used to buy, but could no longer find it listed.

Here's a page with some of my tank pump adventures in pictures. Hope it helps. If not, I know of a shop in Riverton, Wyoming where you can get the job done right reasonably.

In the Tank
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.

What a great page. From one in-tank vet to another, thanks. But what is all that reddish-brown scaly stuff all over those car parts.... I don't miss that stuff!

Thanks Art, I'll take a look at your information at home tonight.

The gas tank is still 3/4 full and the car is running beautifully except for the couple of stalling episodes on Monday.

Monday night I replaced the two red fuses (16 amp?)for the fuel pumps and cleaned the contacts for them with sand paper in the fuse panel.

Car is running well with no stalling, hesitation, or poor idle.

Monday night I also cleaned the IAC with carb cleaner. All seems to be working well.

We shall see how it performs when the gas tank gets low.

This weekend I'm doing some needed PM and will be changing the plugs, wires, rotor, cap, air filter, and fuel filter. Will probably change some vacuum lines too while I'm in there.

A shop in Wyoming? What are you doing out there Art?

Best wishes.

13

You could do this easy test anytime and rule out the pump. I had my daughter do this, while she was having trouble with our grocery getter 245 while camping in Yellowstone, and she found the pump was dead. That was her out in Wyoming, getting a new pump installed.

With fuse #4 out, run power to the right side terminal to hear the tank pump, and to the left to hear the main pump. For more detail, you can look through that long web page.

Hope this nails it for you. It is a hot weather thing.




--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

A man's home is his castle, in a manor of speaking.

While you are cleaning make sure the throttle body is clean, air passages are open and that the throttle position switch is set properly.

Use quality Bosch, Bougicord, and NGK ignition parts.
Dan

I got back to my car after work for the drive home.

I started up the 245 and it idled poorly and then stalled out.

Second start up it idled fine and kept running.

Car ran fine all the way home. Proper idle just below 1000 rpm. Acceleration was fine. No hesitation or bogging. Car idled fine at stop lights.

a dying sensor will cause behavior your describe

it really sounds like a significant vacuum leak somewhere.
intake manifold gasket?

the only part of your description which troubles me is this

So anyway, these are the symptoms I'm having. Sometimes the car drives, idles, and runs great. Other times the car has lots of trouble just running correctly at idle.

this sounds like something failing but not yet failed. be more descriptive with how often if it runs great, is it running great less and less. etc

Thanks for the reply trich,

This morning the car stalled three times in my driveway when I started it up cold to head to work. It drove and idled flawlessly all the way to work after that. Tach needle was steady just below 1000 rpm when stopped at stop lights. No hesitation on acceleration at all.

Last week the vehicle was driven on a 150 mile trip and ran fine. Then once we arrived at the destination and the highway driving was over, the car began to idle poorly at low speeds and stalled out in the parking lot. Needed to keep a foot on the gas and on the brake at the same time to keep the car from stalling.

So I seem to have trouble when the engine is both warm and cold.

I'm wondering if it could be a problem with the crank position sensor or just something simple like the fuse for the fuel pump. I'll definitely take a look at the fuses when I get home from work today.

I'll post more descriptions of the problem as they occur.

Best wishes.

13

I was thinking AMM or the the air box thermostat might be letting to much heat in. Unless you blocked the mechcanism closed. I do.

Then again a air leak does wonders especially if its in the snorkel tube ridges. The hole can get rubbed into it. Then the hole gets covered back by what's rubbing it. Good idling. Comes and goes!

Phil

Could be. I had my AMM go bad due to the preheat flap thermostat failing and roasting the AMM. Whee. LH3.1 versions are $$$$. The symptoms were very similar and intermittent but got progressively worse to the point that it would not idle without throttle intervention.

But due to MA inspection rules I am fixing the intake pre-heat with a new air-flap thermostat and hose. The idiot I took it to for diagnosis just pulled the preheat hose off the manifold pipe and stuffed it under the motor where I couldn't see it. I found it later when I removed the belly pan for something else. Grrr. I guess that makes me the idiot for taking it to that rip-off artist.

I was thinking maybe Fuel Pump fuse...

Also, any cracks in the large hose from AMM to Throttle body? We really need to make up a name for that Bellows, it's just very Wordy to describe all teh time.

Fuel Pressure Regulator leaking ?

--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Tony H,

How about "Intake Bellows".

RonJ

That would be fine by me. Descriptive and simple.

Do we need to get a King to wave a sword over the Intake Bellows and perform some kind of act? 'with the powers invested in me, I dub thee, INTAKE BELLOWS"

--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Thank you your lordship. And he saw that it was done.

RonJ

Funny Stuff.

--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

i do not think this is the problem but with that said measure the pressure at startup and idling at the schradr valve under the front of the rail to rule out fuel is not a problem. it will take 5 minutes and then you can forget about that as a cause.

vacuum or an electrical signal failing would be my guess