http://www.123ignition.nl/ It's a fully electronic ignition built into what looks like a normal distributor. I was considering the Crane Fireball XR700 sold by IPD and I came across the 123. Anybody have experience with either? Pros and cons? I've heard of people having chopper wheel issues with the Crane unit, and I've heard about people having to cut plastic to make something fit. Any insight is appreciated.

I have close to 40,000 mi and not a problem on my personal car. I am thinking of changing over to the new "Tune" model Fwiw
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Regards Ed 123Ignitionusa.com

Erik its a 1968 p1800s no sender unit.Some changes have happend to wiring prior to my ownership,manley the armor cable to coil has Ben cut and bosh blue coil install. all that worked fine even the tac,witch was connected as follows, one wire from distubator runs to contact on back of tech, makes two loops then out to negative side of coil. That was before the xr700,after the xr700 no reading whatsoever on the tech.So filling instructions for xr700 I reduced the loop on back of the tech to one loop.Still no reading on tech,but remember now the end of wire that went to the distubator is dead ended on account of xr700,s wiring that go,s to control box. THAT WAS DAY ONE START DAY TWO Pulled off yellow wire from negative side of coil and connect it to the end that use to go to the distubator,the yellow wire is the one that gos to the xr700 control box that and the red come from control box to the coil, red positive,yellow negative. So I thought doing that would complete the circuit,No good no reading on tech. TODAY DAY THREE Not sure about this but the instructions for the xr700 say that the tech. Is hooked up from innection switch to loop on back of tech then to the positive side of coil. That's wear I am at, never heard of a tech running off the positive side of a coil. ITS A LOT TO CHEW ON.Tell me what you think thanks Robert S

Erik its a 1968 p1800s no sender unit.Some changes have happend to wiring prior to my ownership,manley the armor cable to coil has Ben cut and bosh blue coil install. all that worked fine even the tac,witch was connected as follows, one wire from distubator runs to contact on back of tech, makes two loops then out to negative side of coil. That was before the xr700,after the xr700 no reading whatsoever on the tech.So filling instructions for xr700 I reduced the loop on back of the tech to one loop.Still no reading on tech,but remember now the end of wire that went to the distubator is dead ended on account of xr700,s wiring that go,s to control box. THAT WAS DAY ONE START DAY TWO Pulled off yellow wire from negative side of coil and connect it to the end that use to go to the distubator,the yellow wire is the one that gos to the xr700 control box that and the red come from control box to the coil, red positive,yellow negative. So I thought doing that would complete the circuit,No good no reading on tech. TODAY DAY THREE Not sure about this but the instructions for the xr700 say that the tech. Is hooked up from innection switch to loop on back of tech then to the positive side of coil. That's wear I am at, never heard of a tech running off the positive side of a coil. ITS A LOT TO CHEW ON.Tell me what you think thanks Robert S

Erik its a 1968 p1800s no sender unit.Some changes have happend to wiring prior to my ownership,manley the armor cable to coil has Ben cut and bosh blue coil install. all that worked fine even the tac,witch was connected as follows, one wire from distubator runs to contact on back of tech, makes two loops then out to negative side of coil. That was before the xr700,after the xr700 no reading whatsoever on the tech.So filling instructions for xr700 I reduced the loop on back of the tech to one loop.Still no reading on tech,but remember now the end of wire that went to the distubator is dead ended on account of xr700,s wiring that go,s to control box. THAT WAS DAY ONE START DAY TWO Pulled off yellow wire from negative side of coil and connect it to the end that use to go to the distubator,the yellow wire is the one that gos to the xr700 control box that and the red come from control box to the coil, red positive,yellow negative. So I thought doing that would complete the circuit,No good no reading on tech. TODAY DAY THREE Not sure about this but the instructions for the xr700 say that the tech. Is hooked up from innection switch to loop on back of tech then to the positive side of coil. That's wear I am at, never heard of a tech running off the positive side of a coil. ITS A LOT TO CHEW ON.Tell me what you think thanks Robert S

Hello,

The correct way to connect the Smiths tachometer with the xr700 is to connect the yellow wire from the xr700 to the white wire that used to be connected to the distributor.

The white wire should run to the back of the tachometer to the inductive clamp and then on to the negative post on the coil as a continuous piece of wire with no breaks.

DO NOT CONNECT TO THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THE COIL!!

Also make sure you have power and a good ground to the back of the tachometer.

The green power wire plugs into the back of the tachometer with a blade connector and the ground is supplied though a black wire that connects to one of the mounting posts of the back of the tachometer.
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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502

Planetman - do you still have one or more Volvo 410 gearboxes for sale, if so can you please contact me - dadedo@optusnet.com?

Eric that did the trick!!!!! thanks for the help,you made my week.I think people should be aware of the misprint on page seven of instructions from crane cams inc. 530 fentress blvd. daytona beach fl 32114. dont get me wrong so far I like there ignition system. if you want I can fax page seven to you. THANK YOU ERIC Cheers Robert S

Hello,

You are welcome.

FYI, Crane Cams, the current owner of the Fireball ignition system, just closed their business.

The company's assets are going to be sold and maybe someone will buy the rights to the system and make them again.


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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502

I don't think the two thins are comparable. One is a complete distributor, the other is an electronic conversion. Also, Crane is deceased & no longer with us, they got liquidated last month.

I've never heard of the 123 system, but as for the XR700 all I can say is that I put an old used unit on my PV some 30K miles/10 years ago. And I've never as much as had to think about it since then. With the points there was a recurring task of regapping them, checking the ignition timing. And even with it set perfectly, a timing light would show the spark being rather unsteady. With the optical pickup, the timing was rock steady, nothing to wear (point contacts or little rubber block), timing just stays the same.
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t

I've been running the CRANE XR 700 ignition on Ole Reliable for several years now without any problem. Highly recommend it.

Brett

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Brett Sutherland & the 1.5 million mile 122 CANADIAN --- WINDSOR, Nova Scotia the birthplace of HOCKEY www.ecvintagevolvo.com

I don't know anything about the 123, other than what I read on the boards. I've had Crane XR700 (or equivalent) on two cars, and I'm a big fan. Never had an issue with the chopper wheels (could you be confusing this with pertronix, which is reported to have issues with the collar that goes on the shaft). Ony downside to the Crane is that you have a non-stock box to mount in the engine bay.

Rolfe '71E

I have been using the XR700 for over ten years. It still works great with no problems ever.
IPD did not even carry them back then.
I got it at Summitt Racing.
Its very hard to beat their prices.
Also, its a lot easier to fasten the optical eye in the proper position with the distributor out of the car.

TedR '59 PV445, '74 144GL, '74 144GL

Hello,

I have installed both.

The pros for the Crane/Allison electronic ignition conversion:

1. It is cheaper.

Cons:

1. Chopper wheel fits loosely over old points lobes inducing timing error.
2. Chopper wheel can distort over time and damage the pickup.
3. Using old distributor with worn shaft bushings, worn advance mechanism
& worn breaker plate w/vacuum control units.
4. Obvious visible mounting of transistor unit, unless put under dash.

The pros for the 123 ignition complete distributor:

1. Electronic ignition & electronic advance which eliminates wearable moving parts like advance weights & springs, breaker plates with vacuum advance/retard units.
2. Cylinder balancing were the timing is automatically adjusted to smooth engine performance.
3. Automatic coil deactivation if engine is not running to save ignition coil.
4. Eliminates fuel injection contact trigger points for D-jet equipped Volvos.
5. Will work with 6 volt cars.
6. Looks like a Bosch distributor & uses Bosch caps & rotors.

Cons:

1. EXPENSIVE!!
2. Long term reliability is unknown.

In the last 2 years, I have installed a 123 Ignition distributor in:

1. 1975 C303 6 cylinder military vehicle
2. 1967 122S
3. 1971 1800E w/D-jet fuel injection
4. 1967 122S w/B20 & K-jet fuel injection aka CIS fuel injection
5. 1967 1800S

I have not installed any Crane conversions for over 2 years.

BTW, my favorite rebuilt Bosch distributor ( I used them in quite a few B18 to B20 converted cars) costs almost $270.12 plus a $10.00 core, according to my last official Volvo parts microfiche dated 2/29/04.

The NLA (No longer available) Bosch ID32X was the 1974 B20 distributor with K-jet fuel injection aka CIS fuel injection and was perfect for B20 conversions.

FYI, I am not a authorized 123 Ignition dealer. I have to buy them 1 at a time from a dealer or my customers have bought them and had me install them.


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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502

I have read many of the posts here on the 123 Ignition and agree the unit is pricey. But it is also top of the line technology. Sure optical units are better than the original points set up. But if you want to take it up another level, 123 Ignition is the way to go. The only moving part is the rotor. There is nothing inside but a PC board. There are now two versions to choose from. The original model with preselected(mapped)curves to choose from. And now the "TUNE" model is available. This unit allows you to create your own advance curves. Store two curves in the unit for on the fly changes like power and economy by the flip of a switch. Eric at High Performance Auto sees the value here and is adept at installation of these units although I do not believe he has put a "Tune" model in yet. Unlike Eric I am a reseller but also want to keep you posted on the latest.
Here is the mfg web site. Or contact me directly for more information.
http://www.123ignition.nl/id/50.html

Regards
Ed

Eric,

It seems you really like that 123 distributor. Do you think the cost is justified if a distributor replacement is a part of a rebuild? I really like the idea of doing cylinder balance -- a capability I was unaware of.

Hello,

If you are asking if I would recommend a 123 distributor upgrade when installing a rebuilt engine, I would have to say yes, especially if doing a B18 to B20 conversion.

Although I really wish the 123 distributors were cheaper.

It was bad enough trying to get the customer to buy a rebuilt ID32X at $175.00 + a core charge, the price I was charging when I was able to buy 1 from a Bosch warehouse.
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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502

Eric how did you get the tac. to work? I put in the xr700 works good but the tac did not ,so I reduced the loop on the pick up on the back of the tac, still no good. I think the wire from the negative side of coil to the tac loop and then down to the old point system is the problem since the points are gone that end of circuit is dead ended. what do I do to get the tac working Cheers Bob shiftyone1961@yahoo.com

Hello,

I am assuming that you have an early P1800, up to chassis number 9999, and they used a tachometer sender that mounted in the air intake cowl in front of the radiator in conjunction with an early style Smiths tachometer.

If your P1800 was never updated with a later 1800S tachometer, and is still using the tachometer sender, I am not sure that the xr700 can properly trigger the early style tachometer via the tachometer sender.

Do not try to bypass the tachometer sender if you still have an early tachometer as it might damage the tachometer.

Did your tachometer work before you converted to the xr700?

If I remember correctly, the xr700 was compatible with the later 1800S tachometer and the 1800E/ES tachometer.
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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502

Eric, I'm jumping in here to find out how to connect the tach to the 123. I just installed this new dizzy and feel it is well worth the cost to know that it is not 30+years of wear and slop. The motor runs smoother and I can only hope it lasts as long as the Bosch. The one I took out has the Crane kit in it and will be carried as a back up. Things do break and I know from experience that if you have the parts and tools at hand, that part will work forever. The tach is my issue now and I wish the instructions that came with the 123 covered this problem. Any help would be appreciated.

Hello,

How do you have the tachometer wired?
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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502

Eric, at the moment it is not hooked up. I had the Crane fireball wired in and changed over to the 123 using the black red yellow and white wires per the instructions. I left the control on the wheel well where I mounted it years ago. The tach was working with the crane unit and the Bosch distributor, so I guess I'm asking where should I attach the white and red leads from the tach on to the 123. Thanks for the response, Howard H

Hello,

Connect the black wire from the 123Ignition distributor to the white wire that goes to the tachometer.

Connect the red wire from the tachometer to the "-" post on the coil.

Connect the red wire from the 123Ignition distributor to the "+" post on the coil.

The Smiths tachometers that Volvo used requires the signal from the distributor to go to the tachometer 1st and then to the coil.

FYI, because of the design of the Smiths tachometers that were installed in 1800E/ES, failure of an internal part can disable the ignition.

Fortunately, the tachometer can be bypassed easily by removing the white and red wires at the back of the tachometer and plugging them into each other.

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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502

Eric, Thanks for the quick response. I will hook it up today. It's good to know about the potential failure of the tach and how to correct it. That would drive me nuts if it happen on the road. Have a great weekend, Howard

The ignition won't fail if the tach fails. All that Volvo did on the '70-'73 cars was to put the coil of wire inside the tach case rather than outside as on the earlier models. When you plug the wires into the back of the tach, you effectively have one continuous wire.

Rolfe--'71E