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I'm in the middle of replacing the timing belt on my '87 240. The next step is to remove the crankshaft pulley. Although I've received great advice by everyone in my last posting I'm a bit concerned about using the "rope trick" (particles of rope left in the cylinder?) and the "starter trick" (there's a chance you may brake loose flywheel teeth having to replace it).
That only leaves using an impact wrench as my only choice. While studying this option I noticed the lack of room. Can anyone share how you've used an impact wrench in such tight space?
Thanks ahead!
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I've done it both ways and have no problem using an impact wrench on my 87 240.
Greg
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I will add my 2 cents 25 responses!), I have the pulley holding tool, and it worked real well to remove the old pulley, which was falling apart. When I put the new pulley in, I discovered to my chagrin that I had fallen for buying a cheap asian knockoff, and the slots were too small for the Volvo tool. So I ended up using the rope trick to hold everything steady while I torked the new one, it worked great. Note to self; stop buying the low price garbage!
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You could, of course opt for the holding fixture that IPD sells for around 50 bucks. I have one, and it beats the other things all to heck and back. I have used the rope trick, and it works too. I still reccomend the holding tool.
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1/2" impact wrench. Haven't broken anything yet.
--
'92 240 wagon, 285k, '90 240 sedan 229k
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"1/2" impact wrench. Haven't broken anything yet.
No doubt that loosens the bolt, but how do you tighten it to spec?
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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With experience and skill. I don't need no steenking torque wrench for those bolts. And none has ever come loose of the hundreds I've done.
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I know we all respect your experience and skill, Rhys. I sure do. But I think the majority here are lacking in both of those attributes, probably don't have access to an air wrench like yours, and may do only 3 or 4 crank bolts in their lifetimes (if that).
For them, I believe the rope trick makes good sense. That's why I push it in opposition to starter kick, screwdriver jamming flexplates, and other such tricks that don't even consider proper tightening*. It's simple and safe for the average DIY'r, and works as well as the $50 tool, IMO.
* From this thread: "a Bolt that is only torqued about 40 ftlbs".
Maybe the book specs can be ignored, but if he'd at least read the rope trick post he'd know that 40 ftlbs was way too light.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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For sure 40 is too little, and that bolt coming loose will do a lot of damage. Using an impact isn't that difficult, if one has access to one. The trick is to watch the bolt turn under the impact blows, and as it slows down in rotation to judge when enough is enough. My gun limits at about 250 ft.lbs. so when the bolt slows down almost to a stop it's done. In other words there is very little difference in rotation between 150 and 250 foot pounds - only a few degrees- what I know is that it is tight and won't come off. The bolt is installed clean and dry too.
I'm sure the rope trick works well for the bolt. My concern is introducing ANYTHING into a cylinder on a customer's car. That's a risk I won't take. I have a feeling that if the rope is introduced at TDC compression there will be only carbon flakes loosened, if at all, but if it's used with the piston at TDC exhaust, when both valves are open on overlap, there is a slight possibility of tweaking a valve stem.
Strangely enough, I've never even SEEN the Volvo holding tool. I only learned about it here on the board.
Perhaps I'm too empathetic because it bothers me how much trouble and angst some have changing t-belts. It should be a quick and satisfying bit of work and not last a weekend. It's a matter of keeping the fun meters in the green zone. Because cars are fun!
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Use the rope trick (with good ol' cotton clothesline). When it's all back together, just pull the plugs and the fuel pump fuses and crank the engine for a couple of seconds. Any cotton swarf or fuzz will be blown out the spark plug hole.
The risk of using an impact wrench on the crank nut is that the stub end of the crank can crack at the keyway slot. The ballsier the impact wrench, the greater the likelihood of this happening. The chances of this happening might be 1 in 500, but the consequences (pull the engine, replace the crank) are pretty dire compared to a little cotton fluff left in the combustion chamber. I wouldn't risk it.
--
In God We Trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.
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With the Fan and shroud out and the radiator still in place, My Gun makes it. I do not use a Deep Impact socket though, a standard 1/2" drive socket works fine for a Bolt that is only torqued about 40 ftlbs
Before I got Air Tools, I always did The Starter Trick.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm
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For the B230, it's 44 ftlbs, then and additional angle tighten of 60°.
IMO, it's closer to 200 ftlbs, as a guess.
To get that added 60° of tightening I have to brace myself against the left fender and pull with both arms and back on an 18" breaker bar with a 2' cheater pipe extension.
The crank pulley has been known to loosen with just 40-44 ftlbs.
Even on the B21/23 its torqued to 122 ftlbs.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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First, drain the coolant and pull the radiator and fan shroud (about 15 minutes); and take the fan clutch off the water pump (another 10 minutes). Plenty of room after that and worth the extra time.
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Agreed; takes longer with an auto transmission; be careful of the cooling lines (and catch the tranny fluid).
My little "earthquake" gun fits, and I've carried my fully-charged pancake compressor on-site (no electricity where we were working); had enough air to take it off, and put it back on. Harbor Freight often has these guns for less than 50 bucks.
Not my favorited job, tho.
--
91 245 SE, 91 244 Ltd, 90 244, 85 244 and Roy's 88 245
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I use a short 7/8 six point socket and have a CP air impact gun. Blows the bolt out in seconds. I install it the same way - a second or two longer than one would install a wheel nut. And before anyone flips out about snapping crankshafts and other such urban myths, I've done hundreds of them this way.
I'd never use the rope trick. The factory put it together with impact tools, and that's how I do it.
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Same here. Impact wrench works well for me on the crank pulley. And is my tool of choice for main fuel pump & filter fittings. I destroyed several trying to hold them while I twisted. The snap from an impact does the trick.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
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What do you have to remove to make room for the impact gun? What does CP stand for?
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CP stands for Chicago Pneumatic. The fan and shroud come off, and then you can get to the pulley. On Turbo 740's I'd release the radiator upper brackets and sneak the gun under the rad, but on a 240 you shouldn't have to.
An electric impact is a waste of time.
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Could you tell me the overall length of your impact gun? I have acces to an electric impact gun I can borrow from a friend with good torque rating, if is the same length I'll know if it will work or not. Thanks!
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An electric impact doesn't have a chance of getting that bolt off.
Dan
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Even if it has a high torque rating?
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Electric guns just don't have the jam, and they are much longer and bulkier. Maybe if you pulled the rad and lifted the engine a bit.
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My advice is to use the rope trick.
The only people who knock it are those who've never tried it. I have a list of many 1st-timers who enthusiastically support it. It only takes about 2.5' of clothesline or nylon/whatever, with 6" left outside.
Even if you could fit an air wrench in there, how are you going to tighten it to spec when done? "44 ft lbs, than angle tighten another 60°"
Here's my canned post on the "method", with a few success stories at the end:
==============>
With hindsight and several years experience, I no longer use any "tool" other than a piece of cotton clothesline (nylon or similar is OK too), for what is called "The Rope Trick". It's described in the 700/900 FAQ, but I'll risk boring you with my version below. I've found the rope to be as quick and easy as any tool, and the basic steps are simple:
Although I have both counterhold tools for the B230 and B21/23, I no longer use either one. Instead, I prefer a piece of cotton clothesline (nylon or similar is OK too), for what is called "The Rope Trick". It's quicker and easier than the "tool", and the basic steps are simple:
1 - Pull plugs and rotate crank to #1 0° TDC Compression (feel air come out plug hole).
2 - Verify #1 and #2 valves closed - look thru oil fill hole: #1 cam should be pointed inboard and up about 45°, with #2 pointed horizontally outboard.
3 - Rotate crank about 90° past TDC.
4 - Stuff about 2 1/2 feet of clothesline into # 1 plug hole, leaving 6" outside (feeding the rope in thru a short length of heater hose makes the job even quicker).
5 - Rotate the crank backwards until the packed rope stops further rotation.
6 - Use socket, breaker bar, and pipe extension to loosen pulley bolt.
7 - Tighten bolt the same way, but start with crank about 90° before #1 TDC Compression.
8 - When tight to spec, back the crank up a little a little and remove clothesline.
To my knowledge, this is the only "trick" holding tool alternative that allows tightening the bolt to book spec of 44 lb ft, then an additional 60° (B230), or 122 ft lbs. for B21/23.
Here's what some first-time users had to say:
• "The "rope trick" for holding the engine still while removing the harmonic balancer bolt worked like a charm. Honestly, I doubted that it would, but WOW!"
• "I finally had an opportunity today to use one of the "rope" tricks to help take off the crank bolt. All I can say is - it worked like a charm! Two seconds and I had the crank bolt off..."
• 5/29/05 "I did this a few weeks ago exactly as ... described and it couldn't have been easier."
• 12/28/05"....the rope trick worked like a charm to loosen and tighten the crank pulley bolt!!,"
• 1-10-06 "tryed the . . . method without any luck but the rope trick worked fine to remove the pully bolt"
• 6-26-06 "(thanks for the rope trick! Worked like a charm.)"
• "i just completed the task using the rope trick and my opinion is that it is extremely gentle as compared to jamming a screw driver anywhere. it required about 5 to 6 ft. of 1/4 inch rope and made mission impossible mission simple."
• 4-25-07 at http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1178645.
• 7-7-08 at "Rope Trick Rocks".
• 7-20-08 "was amazed at how easily it worked" .
<============
Who's next?
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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My vote too.I tried it first time 6 months ago with a 4'long plumbing pipe extending the shaft of 1/2" drive, just had to move my arms and that nut gave up.It is great. First I had tried starter method which killed my starter (approx 130$)
Around 4 months ago me and my buddy changed timing belt on his 2001 X-terra , He got a 60-70$ impact wrench from Pep Boy's which was powered by Car's Cigarette Lighter and it worked .But nothing beats rope trick, if it was my car I would have tried it , there was some talk on Xterra Forums's about this.
Regards
--
DD-1990 240 DL SW M47II FI 3.1 234 K miles
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i used it on my 740 this weekend and it worked perfectly! thanks Brickboard for a great idea.
--
'89 745GL 212,643 miles; '00 V70SE 146,000 miles and counting!
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Add me to the list of people who use the rope trick. I was able to use the Volvo special tool once, and that was great - but the rope trick is just about as easy and worked perfectly.
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posted by
someone claiming to be lummer57
on
Sat Jan 3 09:42 CST 2009 [ RELATED]
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I totally agree with Lucid/Bruce who knows his stuff. I replaced my timing belt recently. Never did this job before. Rope trick worked wonderfully. Whoever thoght of it I say hats off to them. Brilliant fantastic idea. One of those " why didn't I think of that? " ideas. As far as any tiny particles of debris being left in cylinder I really don't think that would happen and even if it did it would just blow out thru exhaust anyway.
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Thanks for the support, Lummer,
I can see Rhys's point, being as he (1) has an air gun that fits, (2) is/was working against the clock, and (3) has gained experience to know what corners are safe to cut (i.e., tightening torque spec).
But that description doesn't fit most of us DIY'ers. Therefore, I believe the rope trick safely meets our needs and experience level in a way that does no harm, and is by-the-book.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Please count me as one more supporter of Lucid/Bruce's rope trick. Worked like a charm the first time I did it, so well, am planning to use it again this week when I pull the head on my 740 Turbo wagon. Gives me a nice feeling to accomplish with $2.50 or less of rope what the Volvo dealer needs a $50+ tool to do.
Risks, well I don't think there are any. Use a cotton rope and any fluff that may be left in there (follow the advice above and crank w/o plugs/fuel to blast most out) will be quickly reduced to light weight ash that will go right out the exhaust. Pressure against the head and valves: could not even begin to compare with just one combustion cycle, nevermind the several hundred hammerings per minute the cylinder head receives at highway cruising speed.
The rope trick is one of the greatest ideas ever for home mechanics.
--
Scott Cook - 1991 745T, 1985 RX-7 GSL-SE, 1986 Toyota Tercel (Don't laugh, it is reliable, faithful AND gets 41 mpg!)
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