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Front Wheel Bearing findings / got two questions. 200

This is continued from a prior posting about the grinding sound when coming to a stop. It first started with the grinding sound like I had bad brake shoes (new) and would only happen when I was out of gear and slower than 20 mph.

I pulled the tire off tonight and spun the wheel. The brake pads where touching the rotor and making noise but not the grinding. So I removed the caliper and felt the for play in the rotor. The hub was moving a bit with play. I pulled out the cotter pin and when the nut was removed the outer bearing fell out. The whole thing came off leaving the inner bearing on the spindle. I cleaned out the old grease that looked pretty wet and fresh. Packed the bearing and put it back into the hub and tapped the metal seal (?) to hold it in. When replacing the outer I tightened the bolt while moving the hub and then backed it off and then tightened with the fingers tight with no play in the rotor like it had before.

My guess is that the adjustment was off enough to make the insides rub/grind.

One question I do have, how much play do the bearings have when they are off the car. The two bearings inside and outside part with the bearings between could be moved in and out a bit. Do new bearings have that play or have they been damaged?

How does the adjustment all of a sudden change? I thought in july I'd checked for play but found none. When I put it all back together the problem seemed to be solved. I have to wonder about it being a very easy thing to mess with if someone had it in for you. Lets just say I have some suspicion due to a situation a couple months ago with an employee of a parts store who wouldn't own up to his lie. The front passenger wheel is the most hidden from the street and blocked by my other car. Thats a long shot but it still makes me wonder seeing it all of a sudden changed. Unless the bearings are bad. But they looked new, newly packed and a good brand.
Thanks








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    Front Wheel Bearing findings / got two questions. 200

    Wow, you've asked a host of questions here. Let me try to sort a few things out.

    First - unless your wheel bearings are *incredibly* deteriorated - i.e., to the point that rolling elements are broken or missing - you'll almost never hear a bad wheel bearing at a speed you can achieve by spinning the wheel by hand. The best way to detect a bad wheel bearing without disassembly and inspection is by making wide turns left and right while driving at maybe 20-30 mph. A bad bearing makes little noise when loaded, but will make noise when UNloaded. So, say your right front bearing is bad. You turn left, that loads the right wheel, the noise will quiet down. Turn right, that unloads the right wheel, the noise will increase.

    The grinding noise you describe really does not sound at all like a bad wheel bearing.

    Next - tapered wheel bearings take both thrust and radial load, and as such are supposed to be preloaded. This is done by adjusting the castellated nut on the spindle. With the wheel installed, the wheel is spun and the nut is torque to a modest setting, typically about 20-25 foot-pounds. Then the nut is backed off to the next slot which allows the cotter pin to be placed in the spindle thru-hole. This sets the bearing and presses excess grease out of the freshly-packed bearings, yet leaves a light preload on the bearing. If you grab the wheel and pull in and out, there should be zero play felt (unless ball joints or tie rod ends are worn. Grab the wheel at top and bottom; push a the top and pull at the bottom, then reverse, and there should also be no play. If there is, the bearing is either incorrectly set, or worn, or both.

    With the bearings off the car, there is no preload on them so it's not really possible to establish whether or not there is enough wear to constitute "play" in them. If the bearings are off the car, just clean them with solvent and examine them. A light wear pattern on the outer race is normal, but there should be no significant discoloration (which would indicate overheating) nor any signs of pitting. Likewise, the rollers should have no signs of pitting. Any discoloration, uneven wear or pitting is sufficient reason to replace the bearings.

    Also, any time you pull the wheel off the spindle, replace the inner grease seal. These are SO cheap there's no reason not to, and a worn seal can let grease contaminate your brake pads. Unless that seal was just replaced a couple of weeks ago, if you pull the wheel, put on a new seal.

    Back to your noise and suspicions. If someone tampered with a wheel bearing, in all likelihood the front right wouldn't create a problem for you, but the fornt left might - because of the RH spindle thread on both sides. The right side would tend to be self-tightening, whereas the front left would be self-loosening. But the spindle nut would have to be backed off several turns to get enough axial play to create the noise you describe, which sounds like the outer edge of the disk rotor contacted the brake pad.
    --
    No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public - H.L. Mencken








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      Front Wheel Bearing findings / got two questions. 200

      Today I drove the car 20 miles to work. All ok. Everything felt fine until the last mile home when the sound returned. I know the adjustment on the nut was off yesterday because of the play in the wheel. I repacked the bearings with grease and thought maybe I didn't seat it correctly. But there was no play when I put it all back together and the sound didn't start till I had driven for 40 minutes on the back roads with stop lights. I didn't have the tire on when spinning but spun it with the rotor while tightening. I'll be checking it tomorrow again to see if it seated correctly.

      The bearings when in my hand could be moved. So can the inside of the bearing have play when its off the car. The inside and outside parts had a good bit of play. I'll be heading over to a parts store to compare with what they have in stock if no one knows off hand.

      Thanks for the lengthy reply. I hate to think someone would go through the trouble to do something like loosen the nut but this young 20's kid seemed pretty mad that I was making a deal out of a lie he told and wouldn't own up to the truth. Anyways thats should be out of mind by now.








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        Good advice... 200

        ...from Smitty, as usual.

        I would also suggest that you invest in the Bentley 240 manual—especially if you want to replace the bearings yourself.
        --
        Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.








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        Front Wheel Bearing findings / got two questions. 200

        If you suspect the bearings are bad, just replace 'em and be done with it - they're not that expensive.
        --
        No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public - H.L. Mencken








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          Front Wheel Bearing findings / got two questions. 200

          I've got the Bentley (mine has seen better days) and the diagram was very helpful seeing how it all goes together. It just seems strange that the problem will cease but after driving a bit it comes back. I'll be looking for some replacement bearings today locally. Its hard to drive the other car in the meantime since he TAB are bad. I've got to be very easy on the gas trying not to hear that clunk. And I know I'm risking damage to something in the meantime. I'll be getting the ingredients for the Homebrew tool later today. A machinist friend of mine will be fabricating the pieces but in the meantime the bearings and the rest of life's challenges.








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            thanks for the help Smitty. 200

            Not going after the bearings as the problem at this point. Looking at the brakes again and thinking there has to be something that I can't see without taking the pads out. It seems like if it was a stuck caliper it would be grinding all the time. So I'll take that off the list. Although the only grind I could hear with the car jacked up and wheel off seemed to be coming from inside the hub and not from the brakes?

            Very helpful with determining it wasn't the wheel bearings with the in depth post. I looked at some today at a parts store and found my worries with the movement of my bearings are normal. I was worried they where suppose to be solid and not be able to move the metal in and out that surrounds the actual rollers. A mechanic friend also gave me assurance that the bearing staying on the spindle when I removed the rotor/hub was normal.

            Still the pads and rotor looked normal, stumped but only some time with the car jacked and wheel off will tell the truth.

            Although now I think my wagon has a rear passenger bearing making some noise when I unload during a turn. A little rumble at times too like someone described stones (riverbed) rubbing or tumbling a bit. My fear of bearings has been lessened through this. My first wheel bearing moment.








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              thanks for the help Smitty. 200

              Heck, taking the brake pads out is pretty easy - I would do that to be sure. If you have a frozen piston (there are 4 on each front caliper), the resulting uneven wear on the pad will be pretty obvious.

              Just beware that there's a tiny "hairpin" retainer on each pin retaining the pads. Pull them out first with needlenose pliers, and don't lose them! Then tap out the pins, one at a time. Study the orientation of the anti-rattle spring before it comes out, so you know how to put it back in. And for a beginner, always work on one side at a time so you have the other side to refer to in case you get confused with the reassembly.

              With the pins out, use big pliers to gently push the disk pads away from the rotor so there's clearance to remove them. Then just wiggle them out. Keep the inboard separated from the outboard so they go back in the same places.

              If you've lot less than 1/8" of friction pad left anywhere, replace the pads. Use a soft brush or a popsicle stick to get the accumulated crud out of the corners and crevices of the caliper housing, so the pads slide a little more easily when they go back in.

              I'm just giving you the highlights here - any decent manual will give more detail on a pad change. But when you're done and everything is back together, BEFORE you head out on that test drive, pump the brakes HALFWAY several times until the pistons push the pads into full contact with the rotor again, as evidenced by a firm pedal. Long time ago when I had a steep, short driveway I let the Saab down off the jacks and headed out for a test drive with the new pads, and had a serious "Fruit of the Loom Moment" when the brake pedal went to the floor!
              --
              No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public - H.L. Mencken







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