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Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

posted by  someone claiming to be barry s on  Wed Oct 15 10:52 CST 2008 [RELATED]

A couple of days ago I related that my teenage son ran out of gas and could not restart the ('87 240 DL) car after adding gas. I went by the following morning and it started right up. A couple of you said that since it now is working I/he just needed to prime the pumps but cautioned the likelihood of ruining the fuel pumps by allowing the tank to run dry. ( I had previously lectured the boy about not driving on fumes.) My thanks to them because I breathed a sigh of relief and (stupidly) did not devote time to looking for other reasons that the car died. After taking the car away for the rest of the weekend, I allowed my son to take it to school yesterday. THEN I get a call yesterday evening that the car had died again. Since it was nearly dark I waited to tow it home till this morning. Last nite I looked at the IPD catalogue to price fuel pumps and saw a discusion about fuel pump relay problems. I concluded that must be the problem. Clearly the relay was not working when the key was turned and manually closing the relays caused the fuel pump(s?)to engage. Then (LESSON LEARNED) I went ahead and looked in the ARCHIVES to find that "dylant" (4+ years ago)had cautioned not to overlook the auxilary 25 amp fuse (don't know what it is called) mounted by the battery. I pulled it, saw an oxidation layer, cleaned it up till shiny, VIOLA, it started right up. I knew this was any important link in this vehicle's operation but skipped this simple possibility which I will immediately check FIRST if in the future there is a no start situation with this Volvo. You should too. Barry








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    Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

    posted by  garrard on  Wed Oct 15 13:52 CST 2008
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    last visit: Mon Oct 20 12:36 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    Bingo. Fuse panel, FPR, 25 amp main are the first things always to check--in that order due to ease of checking--on 240 no starts. Would love to know the % of problems those steps resolve but bet it's over 95%.








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      Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

      posted by  Jorrell on  Wed Oct 15 14:14 CST 2008
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      last visit: Thu Dec 27 03:00 CST 2012
      [RELATED]

      I'm sure its over 95% assuming that the car doesn't have a pink (561?) label ECU! Nowadays, a pink label after close to 20 years, the capacitors dry up and die, quickly followed by silicon "hard" failures. Pink labels are probably in the 5 to 10% failure range.

      jorrell
      --
      92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!








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        Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

        posted by  garrard on  Thu Oct 16 00:21 CST 2008
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        last visit: Mon Oct 20 12:36 CST 2014
        [RELATED]

        I know the rep of the 561, but I took an '87 to 300K+, my '89 has @280K, and our '92 185K, all with the 561. I think our '93 (225K) has a 951, but not even sure about that. So in 25+ years, over hundreds of thousands of miles, and way over 100 no starts, haven't had an issue there once. But having written that, who knows what today will bring.








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          Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

          posted by  Blue Horse on  Thu Oct 16 00:26 CST 2008
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          last visit: Mon Apr 8 17:57 CST 2013
          [RELATED]

          An 87 is LH 2.2, and should have a 554, with, I think, a yellow label. Failures of these units are extremely rare.







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            Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

            posted by  garrard on  Thu Oct 16 01:32 CST 2008
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            last visit: Mon Oct 20 12:36 CST 2014
            [RELATED]

            I realized that right after I posted, but couldn't get back on to correct. Have another '89 in the family w/ @250K, and also no 561 issues (yet).








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              Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

              posted by  pageda on  Thu Oct 16 12:30 CST 2008
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              last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
              [RELATED]

              For reliability / safety/ dependability sake replace the 561 pink label before it fails leaving you stranded. Dan








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                Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

                posted by  someone claiming to be barry s on  Fri Oct 17 12:11 CST 2008 [RELATED]

                Here I am again! This is getting ridiculous and more than a little annoying. Since finding success in cleaning the main 25amp fuse contacts and reinstalling it on Wednesday, I had moved the 240 around in the driveway a couple of times. My son took it to school this morning. Around 5:00pm I get a call from him saying it cut out again. Checked the 25 amp fuse, no start, replaced the 25 amp fuse, twice, no start. Checked the fuel pump relay, looks the same (clean and solid) but does not close with ignition on or cranking. Manually close FPR and hear click at the fuel pump (but not a continuing sound). Short across leads at 25amp fuse and no action at FPR ignition on or cranking. Checked fuse panel, everything looks ok. I'll tow it home again tomorrow. What else should I look at? I found a discussion on another site about another relay (ignition) preventing power to the FPR that I don't understand (http://www.volvoadventures.com/howtodofuelpumprelay.html). Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated. Barry








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                  Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

                  posted by  rstarkie on  Fri Oct 17 13:50 CST 2008
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                  last visit: Fri Oct 24 10:14 CST 2014
                  [RELATED]

                  When you use a wire jumper from the left side of fuse 4 to the left side of fuse 6 do the pumps run and will the car start?

                  If yes, then you may not be getting 12v to the fuel pump relay; or it you are getting 12v to the relay you may not be getting enough amperage to close the relay.

                  Start at the positive battery post and clean everything up. At the positive post remove the connector on the red wire that leads to the 25 amp fuse. If it shows any signs of corrosion where the eye is crimped to the wire cut it off and solder on another connector. I have seen corrosion migrate up the wire under the insulation and create enough resistance to prevent the relay from getting the amperage it requires to close.

                  If the pumps do not run with the jumper in place then you need to need to see if you have 12v at the pump. That will require a meter or test light on the lead at the pump. If you have 12v there then check the ground under the rear seat; they can get rusty or corroded and prevent a completed circuit. 12v at the pump with a good ground on the other lead means you have a bad pump (not likely).

                  Good luck.

                  Randy








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                    Lesson learned - Thanks dylant 200 1987

                    posted by  someone claiming to be barry s on  Sat Oct 18 12:36 CST 2008 [RELATED]

                    Randy and others --- Thanks. BUT I'm still not running. With Randy's encouragement I investigated with test light and meter. I assume its the fuel pump relay even tho all solder points look good, there is no burnt look or corrosion, there is no rattle (i.e., it looks like new!). Every place I checked from battery thru 25amp fuse to FPR I got 12 volts. My Haynes manual wiring diagram for the FPR has some different wire colors. Since I can't get another FPR till Monday (at the soonest) I'm posting this message so that those much smarter than me can tell me if I'm overlooking something. At the FPR the heavy guage Red is Hot, always. The heavy Red&Yellow (goes to main pump ??) is Hot with IGN On or manually closing points on one coil [Digressing - This coil causes a pump running sound when points are manually closed even with IGN Off]. The lighter guage Red/Blk stripe is Hot with IGN On. The light guage Green&Blue is Hot with IGN On and causes a pump (don't know which) to run when grounded thru test light. A light guage Yellow/Blk stripe is a ground??? A light guage Brown and a medium guage Orange share the 6th terminal and are Hot when the other coil is manually closed (not sure if I had IGN On or Off). This "other" coil causes a pump running sound when points are manually closed with IGN On. Is ther anything else I need to check before ordering a new FPR? Thanks again, Barry







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