One thing I began to notice as I completely stripped my 1965 130 is that there are a surprising number of seams and seals that have a hardened goop like material where I would expect to fine welding beads.

As I've looked into the structural innards of the car where I cut the roof, and along the interior seams. It looks like MOST of this car is epoxied together at the seams...

Obviously it is nothing that is coming apart. I broke at least a dozen sawzall blades taking apart my 71 1800E. It was very solid. Still, there are beads of original goop everywhere I look on the on the car.

What I'm thinking (and maybe you all know this already) is that these cars are spot welded together and sealed with some sort of epoxy or caulking compound.

This could have positive implications for part salvage and replacement - if I knew how to find and drill out the spot welds and dissolve that sealing material.

I once read a VCOA "Rolling" article about someone drilling out spot welds to install an 1800 brake box into a 122.

I've been listing out the work needed for my 220 and dwelling on the difficulty of getting salvaged floor pans. The price of new ones appears to have jumped significantly. If pans can be removed without a cutting torch, it might up my chances of finding reasonable prices on replacement parts.

Any thoughts on this?

From time to time I have thought about using POR-15 to join sheet metal, for a floor patch for example. As we all know that stuff really bonds and the advantages that I see are no heat to cause warping, the joining surfaces don’t have to scrupulously free of rust as required for good welds, and with sufficient overlap the joint should be as strong as a butt weld.

Any thoughts on this out there?

Cheers,

--
Barry -- 1967 122S 'Betty'

Why not just use the adhesives specifically designed for this?

They aren't really any more expensive than the POR product line and you know they will hold and will give the benefits you are looking for (no heat, no rust, etc.)

Personally I would rather know I won't be having to repair the spot again than hope I won't have to. Nice thing with the panel adhesives is you can get data sheets and know the strength of the joint; if done properly. I think the viscosity would be an issue as an adhesive with the POR as well since its so thin. They add glass beads to the panel adhesives to maintain proper film.

However I have done some patching with POR using glass cloth and it held up fine but I don't think I would try it as adhesive in a unibody.

My two cents, thats all.

Point taken. Which panel adhesive(s) would you recommend?

Cheers,
--
Barry -- 1967 122S 'Betty'

I haven't needed any of the adhesives...yet. I will but my choice will have more to do with availability in Hawaii than "the best" or "best value".

Lord Co. Fusor is well regarded; 3M also makes them. I know Norton also makes panel adhesives and there are others. Stick with a brand name is all I can recommend, they are available in different setting times and make sure you get something designed for metal to metal.

One other thing to consider is the applicator gun. Some can be used in a regular caulking gun and others claim to need their proprietary applicator. Get extra mixing tips and use gloves. And they are offered in different set times so make sure you get something nice and slow.

I plan on using adhesives anyplace that isn't a backbone structure on the unibody; just more comfortable with the idea. I worked in a shop years ago that built a carbon fiber ultralight aircraft and the whole thing was glued together. Its relatively new in automotive application but gaining acceptance.

One thing to be aware of if used on a body panel is there have been claims of the repair showing through the finish in hot weather. They may have fixed this issue or there are techniques to reduce or eliminate the effect, but may not be necessary in your project.

Good luck.

it will certainly and permanently affix the lid to your can if you fail to follow the precautions...

I read about someone using a hot glue/epoxy with a 1-2" overlap to adhere bodywork together. I think that was on the 240 or 740 forums back when I used to hang out in there.

Anyway, I think the holding power is probably sufficient for a floorpan application - Especially if you use rivets or somesuch to give it a few solid connections. I'd be more hesitant to try POR when adhering anything that would undergo torque during driving or during an accident (e.g Fender grafting).

I imagine the guys over at restomotive have thought about this, or have already had the question...

I was talking to a body man the other day and he was using a epoxy gun that mixed two parts togather in the tip .I asked him why he was glueing things togather rather than welding them. He told me that steel in todays cars warp badly and weld poorly with old equiptment.I under stand that airplanes are beeing epoxyed togather more and more.The equiptment He was using was used mostly by proffesional body men.A 122 would not have used this technology but it may be availably for repairs. Of course fit hwill have to be very good.I think I will stick to welding.
Joel the locksmith

It's 'seam sealer,' also called 'joint and seam sealer.' It's applied over joints and seams (heh) to keep the water out. It's paintable (unlike silicone based RTV) and isn't acidic (like many silicone based RTVs, which accelerate oxidation). It's really good stuff to use over welds and is available at auto parts stores that have a good selection of paint related products. Comes in caulk-like tubes as well as cans.

Neat stuff, though it can be a pain to remove.

Best,

Cameron
Rose City

I think you are right that it was spotwelded and then sealed - not sure if it is epoxy
but sealed anyway. Drilling spotwelds is a bit tricky for several reasons one is that
the rapid cooling from spotwelding can harden the soft steel in spite of its low carbon
content. (I tried spotwelding some AISI 1002 steel when I worked at Kelly AFB and was able
to get it up to Rockwell C 37, which amounts to an equivalent of 180,000 PSI tensile strength.
What this means is that if your drill has a chance to wander off the weld, it will because
the adjacent body metal will be much softer than the spotweld nugget. Therefore it
is pretty important to start with a small hole that will be fully contained in the nugget.
To do this, if you can't see the spotweld clearly, a little sanding over it will show the
indentation still painted when the paint is sanded off around it. I'd start with a small
drill, 1/8" or smaller and after drilling through and then drill bigger till the nugget is gone.
--
George Downs, Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!

George is right but thought I might add that you can buy a specialized bit that doesn't cost too much. Appropriately called a spot-weld bit and looks like a mini-hole saw, usually with a reversible "hole saw" portion.

I will be removing many spot welds in my project with such a bit so I will be able to tell you how well they work. Have also heard of just grinding off the weld until it pops.

-Mario
Hilo, HI

Ah, it's good to know that there's a tool for that.

Do not worry, I'm not contemplating attacking anything on the 1965 (or the 67 or 68), but in crawling around inside of it as I've been reassembling, I've noticed how the car is assembled and noted all the spot welds (quite a few in some places).

I'm thinking that I may try this approach as I rebuild the floors in the in 1967 220. Remove the old pieces by drilling out the spot welds...

For anyone with access, I highly recommend a complete tear-down and rebuild. I feel like I know so much more about the amazons now. I *almost* think I could build one from scratch...

Hello,

I have done the 1800e pedal box to 122 conversion on one my 122s. I did it to be able to have a cable clutch for an M410 and to get the 1800e brake booster and dual circuit brake master.

I would NOT do it again. To able to utilize an M410 or any other manual transmission, I would instead install a hydraulic throw out bearing and keep the stock clutch master cylinder.

To get better brakes, I would do the same conversion you have already done, by modifing an early 140 brake booster bracket to enable the installation of a modern brake booster/dual circuit brake master.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90501

Thanks Eric,
yeah, you mentioned that project back when I was looking to install an 1800E setup in my 67 wagon in late 2006.

I'm *VERY* happy with the 140 setup - especially now that I have a factory rebuilt 140 MC sitting in there. Works like a charm. I like it a lot more than that ultra-custom 1800E booster stand I have and it is still 100% volvo!

About the spot welds, I was referring to a circa 1997-1998 article in "Rolling" about upgrading an Amazon with donor rotors, wheels, and rear axle from an 1800E. I only bring it up because they mentioned drilling out the spot welds on the 1800's pedal box and installing it into the 120. I've no idea why they went to that trouble - except that they wanted the power brakes...

This was the first time I read anything about 120s being spot-welded together. But in climbing around inside the 65, I kept finding this sealing goop on every seam where I would have expected fine weld beads.

It made me think I could completely disassemble a 120 and save all the body intact as a pile of shaped steel parts... wow that'd be kinda cool.

When I upgraded the 67 220, I split the M41 from the B20E and swapped in my original B18 hydraulic clutch bellhousing. With the exception of using the wrong pressure plate/throwout bearing combo the first time, it was by far simplest approach.

Now, just pair that with an early 140 booster stand and you've got a heck of a setup. As modern as any 140 or 1800 in the body of a classy 120.

RJ, I think you'll find that most cars are spot welded together. This is a very old technology and works very well. The only seams that were welded full on the 122 were the door window frames, the seam at the top of the C-Pillar, the front and rear edge of the sides of the hood...that's pretty much it. The rest will all be spot welded.

On the removal side of things, if the floor panels are rust, cutting the spot welds out is a waste of time. Just use a cut disk on a grinder and knock it out of there. The cutters that George and Cameron mention are fine, but unless I need to keep a panel intact, I've found that it is just easier to cut them out and grind the overlap off.

After I have the panel off, I use a 1/4" punch to pop holes in the new panel, then button weld it in place. Looks like a spot weld and works great. Every panel that has been welded should be seam sealed. Don't forget to clean off the oils on the sheet metal first.

Craig