|
|
|
Believe it or not, I managed to press out the bushings on my "spare" lower A-arms. From what I've read, I expected this to be very difficult or impossible to do with a hand-press. I've also seen several warnings that a hydraulic press (in the wrong hands) will destroy the arms if anything other the utmost care and skill is used.
In about 30 minutes I pushed out the bushings with a $40.00 table-top hand-press from Harbor Freight. A very happy surprise. Maybe I was just lucky, who knows?
I want to clean these up, give them a good coat of POR15 and Chassis-Cote Black, and (finally) properly rebuild the original front end on my 68 sedan. The lower bushings worried me so much, the car is presently sporting a rebushed 1965 front end and the 68 suspension is sitting in the garage.
So, my big question is which bushings to use - Polyurethane or Rubber?
I already have a set of new rubber bushings. Everything but the 68's Lower-A bushings were rebushed/replaced last year.
After initial the nightmare of removing the lower pivots, I think maybe something with greater longevity might be worth my time.
I don't drive the car like a racer, I commute with this car daily and a "modern" car feel is what I shoot for. That usually means rubber, but in this case, maybe I should go with the poly?
|
|
-
|
|
|
My vote for my taste is poly. I just like the feel, but as mentioned elsewhere in this, it comes at a cost of NVH. I want to hear Cameron's trick about bushing removal. I'll bet he and Shanyne have forgotten more about fixing these 122's than most people will ever retain.
|
|
-
|
|
|
You know, after looking around, there do not seem to be ANY poly bushings sold for the Amazon... maybe I missed them, but the IPD catalog seems clear about the kit being rubber...
|
|
-
|
|
|
I just changed the lower A frame bushings in my friends 66 122 Automatic. GOD They were SHOT. I removed the A frames and took them to my friendly machine shop. I dont know if this is a trick or not,But he had the old bushings out and new ones installed in 10 minutes. He had a big hammer and proper punch for remove and install. BANG BANG,out came the old ones. He held the A frame in a large Vise. The new rubber ones also were hammered in place.Real tight fit.His charge was $25.00.I Installed the A frames and NO more noise.I followed the Service manuals instruction to Preload the bushing before tightening the Lower A frame Bolt.
Hope all goes well with the job.
|
|
-
|
|
|
The original lower bushings are vulcanized to both the outer and the inner metal sleeves. The idea is that they're tightened with the suspension loaded and will then flex (or twist, really) as the suspension loads and unloads. Fitting poly bushings will prevent this from happening... and whether or not it's important as a function of the suspension is likely cause for debate.
In this application, we use rubber on our own Volvos as well as all of our customers' Volvos - including cars that see regular track use. For the upper A arms, though, we never use rubber - either poly or delrin.
Wish I'd known you were working at removing the old bushings - there's a really cool trick to it that takes about 10 seconds and doesn't require a press. Next time.
Best,
Cameron
Rose City
|
|
-
|
|
In this application, we use rubber on our own Volvos as well as all of our customers' Volvos - including cars that see regular track use. For the upper A arms, though, we never use rubber - either poly or delrin
I can't speak for 120's, but what you suggest is what I think is best for 140's.
For lower bushes, I think modest to average tyres coupled with standard to mild springs work best with rubber lower bushes (say 195 or 205x 60 or 65-15), but, if you are using uber sticky tyres with stiff springs on a race track, then poly lower buses are likely better because the grip lost by using poly bushes is regained by the use of sticky rubber.
With stock springs & mediocre 205x60-15 tyres on my 140's I have noticed a loss of braking performance using poly lower bushes & think rubber is much better.
|
|
-
|
|
|
So maybe you should go ahead and post the trick....
Many thanks!
--
George Downs, Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
|
|
-
|
|
|
Yeah, please share. These were my "spare" A arms, I've got at least one other set that needs to be replaced, so I expect to do it again. I may not be so lucky the next time.
I was not really planning to press them out on sunday or I might have posted for advice. I happened to have the press outside because I was moving it into the garage (was in the basement) I was waiting for the clear-coat on my freshly polished clutch slave cylinder to dry, so I gave the bushings a go and was very happily surprised.
considering the previous warnings, I'm not sure I could actually use the this press to apply enough force to really risk deforming the A-arms. I did use a big socket to push them the rest of the way out.
It sounds like I'm going to put in the rubber lower bushings that I already have (nice for my pocketbook). I'll look at poly end-link and upper A-bushings for the rest of the rebuild.
Thanks!
|
|
-
|
|
|
I do believe that you managed to get the old bushings out with a fairly simple press. This speaks well of your approach, which (based on other posts and your history as presented here) is focused and intentional. This isn't simply luck, though that's always at least a small part of the picture. Your approach is sound.
I still think that rubber bushings are best for the lower a-arms unless you're race preparing a car. I don't mean a 'gonna drive it real fast around the neighborhood when it's done' kind of race car, but an actual race prepared Amazon. My own 122 is rather modified and - after trying both rubber and urethane - I prefer the rubber lower bushings. Bushing selection is not about comfort nor a quiet ride nor any other factor for me than function. The rubber [lower] bushings are good components. I think I mentioned earlier that the rubber uppers are not. I'll readily state that the rubber upper a-arm bushings currently available are completely useless garbage. Let me just say that again: completely useless garbage.
You mention longevity - certainly valid. Consider: the oem rubber bushings will be good for something between 50 and 75K (perhaps longer) even under hard use - assuming that the rest of your suspension is maintained reasonably well. That oughta be several years - and suspension bushings are a wear component. Which means it's expected that they'll need replacement. They're supposed to get old and wear out in order that other things can get old without wearing out. Strengthen one component, and you'll find that another component fails.
Use anti-seize when reinstalling the lower bolts. Removing them a few years from now will be a cinch. Really. It's good stuff. Once this is done, replacing the lower a-arm bushings by yourself will be a fine way to spend an hour and a half while also watching TV and eating a sandwich at the same time.
If ever you're in Portland, let me know. I guarantee that I can provide a solid example of a well prepared suspension setup for the 122 that includes an intentional and calculated mix of urethane and rubber suspension bushings. Lest anyone think I'm manipulating the data by picking an easy route, you can drive it yourself. On whatever road surface you choose. Except ice or snow.
[Disclaimer: This is NOT a suggestion, nor am I encouraging ANYONE to try this on their own. If you take this approach and it turns out poorly, it's because you tried something you shouldn't have. It works for us, but that doesn't mean that it works for anyone else anywhere anytime ever. Don't do this. Just don't. End disclaimer.]
The trick to removing lower a-arm bushings: remove the arm from the car. Place the bushing end of the arm in a cradle such that the arm is supported but the bushing is not. Strike the side of the bushing that's on the inboard side of the a-arm with a large hammer and it'll fall out of the arm. NOTE: there are LOTS of ways this can go wrong! If it goes wrong, you can ruin the a-arm and end up with bigger problems to resolve. We do it this way because 1) It's really quick; 2) Shayne is really good and can reliably do this without damaging the arm; and 3) we have a lot of spare parts around should anything go awry. If we eff up and break it, we replace it. Period.
Best regards,
Cameron
Rose City
|
|
-
|
|
"I still think that rubber bushings are best for the lower a-arms unless you're race preparing a car.
In which case, you can just skip the wimpy plastic bushings and go HARD; solid metal bushings with thin (~.020") plastic sleeves, for instance. This is typical with any seriously prepped SCCA ITB 140, in both upper and lower A-arms.
Dunno, 'cuz I've never raced one, but it could be the 120's actually benefit from the small amount of compliance afforded by plastic bushings... the camber curves are definitely not the same (120 vs 140).
--
Gary L - 1971 142E ITB racer, 73 1800ES, 02 S60 T5
BlueBrick Racing
|
|
-
|
|
|
Rubber's best for good NVH. Good quality bushes here should last 100k/10 years maybe. It's even possible the ones you've just taken out are original. The upper inner ones are small and highly stressed and don't last so well, especially the pair near the exhaust manifold. They are cheap and easy to fit though but poly ones can take a bit more abuse.Poly bushes for the anti roll bar good too along with the link rods.
|
|
|
|
|
