Hello all,

My 66 122 wagon has started spitting water out of the radiator overflow tube every time I start it. It continues to spit out water untill I lose enough for the car to start overheating. I've done some tests and the water pump is definatly pushing water into the radiator through the lower hose. The manual says it should be exiting from the bottom and not involving the radiator at all when the thermostat is closed. The thermostat is new as is the radiator cap(7lbs) . I'm thinking I need to take the head off, clean all the coolant pasages in the head and the block, and put on a new water pump. Anyone seen this before or have any advice?

Thanks,
Robert

maybe try dropping a couple pepto bismols in there.

f

Robert;

It sure sounds like a possible/probable pressurizing of the cooling system due to a compromised headgasket...after only 5-6 seconds, there just isn't sufficient heat to boil coolant and make pressure that way...sorry to be the bearer of bad news...but I agree with other poster, before removing head, I'd recommend a pressure test of the cooling system...

RJ; TNX for reference...I tried link and it gets one to the Service Notes page, but not down to the cooling system Bookmark...I've noticed this for a while now...there's obviously some issue with the bookmarks (the site is constructed with Front Page)...maybe some expert out there can shed some light on this...WWW is not much help, which is dissapointing...

Good Hunting

Hello,

If you bought your radiator cap and thermostat from a Kragen, Pep Boys, or Auto Zone type parts store, you most likely got the wrong styles.

If unchanged, your radiator should take a 1" tall radiator cap and most stores only carry the 3/4" tall radiator caps. Which means if you do have a 3/4" tall cap installed, it will not seal the radiator, hence the constant leak out the tube.

Secondly, the correct style and temperature thermostat is not easy to find. I carry 165° for my customers carburated Volvos and I have to special order them.

--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90501

I wonder if you have blown your headgasket and are pressurizing the cooling system.........
--
George Downs, Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!

Howdy Robert,

Is the engine a B20? If so, the Green Book says the radiator cap should be 10lbs.

--
Mr. Shannon DeWolfe -- (I've taken to using Mr. because my name tends to mislead folks on the WWW. I am a 52 year old fat man

I've not seen that problem, but I'd recommend that you NOT pull the head unless absolutely necessary. You can probably flush the system without such a drastic and costly step (at least $25.00 for a new gasket).

I guess It's possible you have a large air pocket trapped in your block somewhere. Try loosening and removing the temperature sender from the back of the head and be sure that you've got fluid back there.

Be VERY careful you do not twist or kink the sender's ether-filled capillary tube if you try and remove it.

Also be sure you have the correct thermo. There's at least two different temp ranges.

The Motor is the stock b18 and it is a little worn. I've pulled the head several times and even pulled the motor once, so I'm not worried about getting my hands dirty. I'd just like to know what's going on before I start doing exploratory surgery. I've not tried loosening the temp gauge sender to avoid air pockets. It's hard for me to wrap my head around how that could be the culprit. I've drained and flushed and refilled like 5 times over the past few days. Every time I bump the starter for a few seconds, there is a gurgling from within the block and in 5 or 6 seconds it starts flowing out of the overflow tube. If I start and drive it, I can see a trail of water down the street behind me. The flow definately increases with rpm.

Thanks for your input,
Robert

This is not a cap, or thermostat, or pump problem. This absolutely has to be a compression/combustion leak into the cooling system. I'll bet if you start it and put your nose in the radiator cap opening, you'll smell combustion products (exhaust). You might also see a lot of bubbles, which would be the combustion gases coming to the surface.

If this is a head gasket problem, you might want to consider having the head checked for flatness before you put 20 or 30 bucks in another gasket. If it's not a gasket... well, we don't want to go there, do we? I am in the process of changing out the short block in the ITB race car as we speak... cracked block! :(
--

Gary L - 1971 142E ITB racer, 73 1800ES, 02 S60 T5
BlueBrick Racing

I'm not worried about getting my hands dirty

Howdy Robert,

Before you get that far into it, remove the thermostat and see if the coolant will flow. As Eric pointed out, the form factor may be very close but the correct thermostat has a plunger on the bottom that seals that pipe in the bottom of the thermostat housing.

You may well be pressurizing the system because of a blown head gasket. But there is an easier way than removing the head to prove or disprove it. You can borrow a radiator pressure checker from Autozone and pressurize the radiator (with thermostat removed) and listen for leaks. If the gauge leaks down, it is going somewhere. ;-)

--
Mr. Shannon DeWolfe -- (I've taken to using Mr. because my name tends to mislead folks on the WWW. I am a 52 year old fat man

Blown head gasket sounds likely. It has become much harder to start than a few days ago. When researching this before I posted, I found some refrences to hard starting after a blown head gasket. I'll see if I can coax it the 3 miles to autozone for the radiator test. Otherwise I'll order gaskets, thermostat, and radiator cap from swedish treasures. And If I'm doing the work of pulling the head anyway, I might as well get a new water pump too. Its just $40 and there's no telling how long the old one has been on there.

I'll let ya'll know how the pressure test goes.

Thanks again,
Robert

You could leave it overnight after a good run to warm it up. The next morning, take out the plugs and get someone to crank it over while you watch the plug holes. If water has drained into the bores it will be obvious as the water is pumped out of one or two of the holes as a spray. Beware, it pumps out with a fair amount of force.

I'm not warning you that it will be messy - just that at $25.00 a pop, removing the head gets expensive. I just tried two different heads on my B18B before returning the original and the cost in finding and replacing gaskets adds up. Remember that you should never re-use a head gasket.

If you've had the head off a few times... well it's possible that you could have a trapped air-pocket. Removing the the temp sender, being at the back of the head, will allow you to check and see if it is full of coolant, and would allow excess air to burp out - if you've got a lot of air in there. Easy check costs nothing if you are careful.

You do have approx. 2 gallons of 50/50 in there? The first time I performed a complete engine swap I managed to blow out my head gasket and probably burned my #7 valve because I could not get the full 2 gallons of coolant in there. Chalk it up to my own ignorance.

Hang on... is this a B20? Has hot running been an issue before?

Others will chime in on this, but I'm not sure that the B20 should be run with the open cooling system... You do not have an overflow reservoir setup?

You might want to check out Ron Kwas' site at sw-em.com He has something on radiators...
Actually I don't see it... oh here
http://www.sw-em.com/service%20notes.htm#Cooling%20System

Try VClassics also

The 175-ish HP B20 in my PV is perfectly happy with the PV's B16 open system. Only thing I changed was to add a big pusher fan on the radiator to prevent overheating when stopped for extended periods of time. The stock B18 style fan really just doesn't move air at idle speeds.

The fan is also wired to come on with the key off, and it prevents boilovers when you shut the motor off hot.

But back to the original post - I'd have to say (in order of ascending doom factor) that it's almost certainly:
1) Bad head gasket - remove the head and make sure it isn't warped, and replace.
2) Cracked or warped head - leaking from a combustion chamber into the water jacket.
3) Cracked block.

Water bubbles could certainly lead to delayed overheating, but he's getting pressure in the system immediately.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t

Yeoch - cracked head or block? Just because I've got a spare of each dosn't mean I want to use them! I pulled the head and I do have oily water in #2. I did not see a clear rupture in the head gasket, but I've never seen a blown one and I don't know how visible it is. I'm taking the head to the machine shop tomorow and having it checked for flatness. I'll assume the gasket is the problem and not think about cracked iron. I'll place my parts order in the morning and cross my fingers everything gets to me by friday. Swedish treasure always ships super fast so I should have it back on the road by sunday.



BTW, on an unrelated note I just installed the sw-em alt conversion and this thing rocks! Love having an alternator!

In an alternate universe, I just noticed the alternator on my PV stopped working.

*sigh*

I don't know of any great ways to check for cracks in the block or head, other than visually. The block would likely be splits in the bore, rotate the motor through a revolution or so and check each bore with the pistons at BDC. Hopefully you'd be able to see a crack.

Same with the head, although a shop can do some sort of magnaflux crack checking when they have it.

Comforting fact is that it's very rare to crack a lock or a head. Not impossible, jsut rare. It's probably the headgasket. It doesn't always make a clearly visible mark.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t