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I'm looking to install a bigger engine in my '61 P210 (B16), and it has the smaller radiator style nose section (B16).
Seems that the P210 (B18) and 544s (B18) have different nose sections. Can the 544 nose sections be fitted to the P210s? What are difference and how can it fit? Pictures?
Electric fans? A small electric fan can be fitted in front of a B16 radiator, can an electric fan fit in front of a B18 radiator (I'm thinking of a clearance issue with the hood spring)? Pictures??
Would adding a oil cooler do anything for keeping the engine cooler?
Thanks-
Paul
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Electric fans can be fitted in front of a B18 radiator without interferring with the hood springs. The only thing I found they interfered with was the fancy (rare) aftermarket latch that may be installed to prevent your hood from crashing down on your head as you peer under the hood in gusty winds (don't have a picture of this latch at the moment).
I installed these electric Permacool fans on my B18 radiator (in a 544 nose fitted to my 444 car that originally had a B16). They have kept me from overheating here in AZ in stop & go traffic.
http://www.brickboard.com/GALLERY/images/5392.jpg
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posted by
someone claiming to be SteveW
on
Fri Mar 28 03:51 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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The nose sections for a 210 are different from the 544 in that the distance from the frame tab to the top of the shell is greater for the 210. (The 210 front sheet-metal sits higher above the suspension than on a 544). You can't simply add spacers on top of the frame as the 210 radiator actually sits lower in the nose than with the 544. I suppose you could use some non-stock radiator hoses to make it fit, but I don't have any experience with this option.
I've done what you are planning to do in that I have a B-18 engine in my 445.
To change a 544 B-18 nose to the 210 equivalent requires minor fabrication and welding to extend the height of the radiator surround in the nose. If memory serves me, its about 3-4" that you have to add. The nose will fit the fenders OK, and the B-18 hood fits without changes.
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Steve-
Thanks- I think I'm going to keep the B16 nose and get a custom radiator made up. I think I can add 3-4 inches to the core to take advantage of the whole nose opening without hitting the top of the hood.
I would be interested to see how your modification came out. Do you have any pictures of how you did it or a current picture how it looks?
Paul
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Looks like the nose can handle a radiator core at least 4" taller. Does anyone have a B16 custom radiator?
Paul
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Why are you assuming you'll need a custom radiator?
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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Well- My radiator needs to be replaced (fan destroyed it), and if I was going to rebuild it, thought maybe this is the time to increase the cooling power of it.
I guess I could just try a good use B16 radiator, and go from there.
Anyone got one?
Paul
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posted by
someone claiming to be cruiser
on
Thu Mar 27 12:21 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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because of a total front wrap replacement, I used a b-18 nose piece with a 16 hood. Had to use the 18 hinge/brace section on the 16 hood, they are differant
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Paul,
My parts catalog shows nose sections of the P210 an P110 (PV544) as identical in the drawing, but you are right, the parts numbers are different: 663219-4 for the P210 and 663199 for the P110. All the other numbers on the respective pages are the same though, so, I suspect that, if there are any differences, they've got to be minor. On the other hand, you might find that putting a more efficient core into the B16 radiator might do the trick. I've seen PV444s with B18s with what looked like the original radiators. I'm sure others will jump in with more definite information.
Bob S.
--
"62 PV544 (B20, M41), "71 142E, "93 240 Classic Wagon.
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I've did a search here on the differences between the 544 and the 210s, and it seems that it has to do with how it mounts the frame?
"the 544 nose is different from the 445/210 nose in the way it attaches to the frame at the center of the car. The 445/210 nose sits higher off the frame than the 544, so you'll have to add some kind of spacer to make the nose sit at the correct height."
Just wondering if adding a spacer is noticeable or not? If the exterior surface of the nose is the same, and it's only adding a spacer to the engine compartment, that's fine with me.
The radiator in the car is trash, looks like the fan got it! I need to get a radiator, and the B16 nose is good shape (small dents where the bumpers attaches), so if a custom radiator will provide enough cooling, I rather keep the original nose.
Paul
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considering the engine swap you are planning, I'd say that modifying your current nose piece to fit a larger radiator would be comparatively easy.... Since the P210 is a body on frame design, as opposed to the unibody of a 544... that's waht I'd vote for. Keep the exterior panel fit original, modify the under hood stuff.
Also... since the nose apparantly sits higher in a P210, the clearance issues might be less than what you'd encounter in a normal B16 544...
I really think you should use your nose section, modify it to fit the radiator of your choice, and go for an electric fan...
Or at least that would be my inclination not having seen exactly what you're dealing with.
All that said, I do have a 544 nose section not far from you... but I'm inclined to think that should be saved for a 544 that really needs a nose section...
Pat Sadie
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Good! I'll try the B16 nose, and if I need more cooling (which is what I'm concerned about), then find a B18 nose.
I bet a radiator could be 3 inches taller and still clear the hood.
Paul
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For what it's worth, my '63 544 has a B16 nose on it (a decades old crash repair?) with a stock radiator. And a 175-ish HP 2.1L B20. No issues with cooling under a load.
It did have an issue with overheating in slow/stopped situations. The stock 4 blade B18 fan doesn't really do anything at low speeds, practically no pitch on the blades, no shroud. Mostly just stirs the air slightly. At higher engine speeds it does start to move air, but at that point the car is most likely moving and you are getting most of the air fromt he ram effect of the grille hitting the air. I cured that (and the occasional hot shutdown burp of coolant from the unsealed system) by putting on a big (16" IIRC) pusher fan. Perhaps slightly too big, as I had to trim a little sheetmetal at the top, but it pretty much covers the core. If it sits and idles it will cycle on for about 20 seconds every few minutes, and the temp gauge very quickly dives back down to normal. I don't think it ever comes on when you are driving around. And it will cycle a time or too when the car is shut off hot, and cool the motor down without the occasional boilover burp.
My first 1800E had an oil temp sensor. But no oil cooler. And no matter how I drove it I never really saw anything on the gauge other than cold on start up, and normal when warmed up. I don't know what you'd have to do to one to get the oil overheated, but it would have to be pretty severe use I guess. I wouldn't worry about an oil cooler too much. If you do put one on, probably worth the effort to do it in conjunction with a remote dual oil filter setup. And use a thermostat on the cooler, overcool oil can be just as bad as overheated oil.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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I built a 544 race car for a customer that had a B16 I installed a B20 and had the B16 rad.recored with a modern core runs very cool, on my own 544 B18 racer I have a alum stock car rad car runs 160 all the time with no fan, stock car rads are cheap but you would have to run a pusher fan they are to fat for a mech. fan
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I dont' remember its been 15 yrs ago
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