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Hey to all , I have a chance at a set of wheel spacers that are 5x4.5 x 1.5 thick . I am wondering if this is the right offset to run some of the latest like 98 up Volvo wheels on my 63 544 ? Thanks for any input. Larry
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Larry,
I've been watching eBay for Panasport, American Racing & Crager the last 6 months. 15" wheels X 6" wide with less than 3 & 3/8 inches offset from the mounting surface. I've come across some with more than the allowable offset and haven't bid or purchased as the case may have been however I'm sure I would have bought some if I'd had that set of spacers. If they aren't too much I'd pick them up. I noticed that GM is using the 4.5 bolt pattern on the new Malibu.(it probably won't be long until a few crashed unit end up in the bone yard as most are equipped with aluminum wheels)
Bruce 1961 PV 544 being disassembled
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My PV with ARE Torq Thrust II's in 15X6. I sort of wish I'd gotten 16" or possibly even 17" wheels now.
The II's are the only TT's with the 3 3/8" backspacing in the 6 inch width, the othre TT styles all seemed to have 3 3/4, as do a lot of the other 15X6 5X4.5 wheels I looked at. And that will rub on a PV's upper/outer suspension pivot. You should also (most likely) stay away from 14" wheels, because of the way the out tie rod ends sit inside the wheel.
The OEM skinny wheels were perfectly fine, until I put the Bilsteins and IPD sways on, then they became a glaring weak point in the whole system. Now it corners like a modern sports sedan.
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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They do look good John and if I end up buying new I will probably go with those . I have seen them on your car before in pictures . In fact I saved a picture of your car to my computer a while back . A lot of hotrodders are using them . So 3and 3/8 is the number for a 6 inch wide rim to place the tire in the best spot ? Thanks, Larry
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Larry & John
Well Larry and I are on the same page, I was going to write the same response as you did to Johns photo and comments.
I saved a shot of you car John last year and put it in a Photo File and headed it up as "the Wheels I want" I'm not sure that I'll have funds to purchase them once the restoration is complete so I was looking for someone to sell their set. I could paint an old set of Cragers or American Racing however 15 X 6" is rather narrow for and old Muscle Car from the 70s...... I've seen lots @ 10" wide which would be good for rear but I think I'd have to head to the gym to be able to drive arround town or parallel park them with Armstrong steering. A PV would look odd with 4" to 5" fender flairs.
Why 16" or 17"? What size tire would you run?
I'd think bigger wheels & lower profile would make for a harsher ride.
Bruce (1961 PV544 unbolted)
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15X6 used to be more common on domestic cars backintheday, but inflation has hit tires sizes along with prices, so they are less common today. And beware, it seems like most domestically intended 15X6 wheels will have the 3 3/4 backspacing and will rub on a PV's front end. The TT II 3 3/8 is slightly on the unusual side.
And 6 inches is probably the limit with stock fenders, as long as you want to be able to rotate the tires. You can't add more rim to the inside because of the front suspension, and you can't add more wheel to the outside and have it still fit in the rear fenders. With some 215/55/15 tires I had to crimp the lip on the rear fenders to prevent rubs. Anything wider and you'd need to do something more drastic with the fenders. Not sure of the clearance to the inside on the rear, but I've had no issues with rubbing there.
The 16" or 17" wheels would just be for visual appeal. I'm sure it wouldn't help the ride at all, but my car is already a NVH nightmare anyhow.
Oh, and here's my idle imagination at work. Behind the PV in that picture is my winter beater, an '89 Ford Bronco II. Neat little truck, goes anywhere with it's 5spd manual and pushbutton hi/lo 4WD. But the body is starting to rust to bits. And my PV is a bit of a horror show underneath, it got used here in the salt belt for a couple of decades, then stored in a carport for 17 years, and it has a lot of rust underneath that doesn't really show. I intend (at some point) to get a solid 444 body and swap over all my good mechanical bits to it. At which point I'll have both a solid Bronco chassis with a rusted out body, and a decent 544 body with a rotten underneath. Hmmm...
*musical interlude with flying spark and welding arc visuals*
Voila - the mini Sugga!!!
I got the idea on eBay, when I saw a really cool combination of an old IH scout chassis and a 544. Of course, I'd have to repaint it with olive drab paint and build some tube bumpers to make it look more like a 2/3rd scale Sugga.
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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Hey not bad . That would definitely get some looks . Larry
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I found two that are just what I was looking for however that would leave me two short, have a look...Bruce
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130203418431&fromMakeTrack=true
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I'd be careful of the backspacing on those. And he doesn't say how wide the rims are either.
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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John,
I sent him a n ebay message requesting both measurements before I made the post Thanks for lookin out for me...Bruce
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Seller advised 6 inch wide rim & 3" back spacing Should fit just fine. Too bad he doesn't have 4....Bruce
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'Best' spot is a loaded term. I'll just say it's the only spot 6 inch wide wheels will fit. By shear design, all added width pretty much has to go to the outside, since the inner rim of the 4" wheels is already pretty close to that upper/outer suspension pivot on the front. 3 3/8 inches is about as far back as you can possibly go from the hub before it starts rubbing. I'd say that at 3.5 inches, you'd be knocking off wheel weights (not that they should be hammering wheel weights onto the edges of alloy wheels, but just to give a feel for the clearance). I think I have maybe 1/3" clearance as it sits.
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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What I mean is that some people just think about getting more rubber footprint on the road and not enough about the quality of the tires.
You can mount the widest possible wheels and still slide around unless you do the homework on which tire compound works best for your car.
On the Police Interceptor club website a huge amount of discussion was always going on as to which tire had the best blend of performance features.
I'm running Michelin 195/60/R15's at the moment, but they are nearing the end of their life now, and I'll have to research tires again.
www.tirerack.com is a great site to start with.
Meanwhile, I push the old girl pretty hard, and I have yet to break loose those Michelins. Maybe I'll look at Pirelli, or something exotic like Kumho's next time.
Meanwhile, I'm still using the 'holey' Volvo steel wheels, although they seem wider than the ones I see on other PV's.
I was going to post some pictures, but the revision of the image library has left me missing some photos. Like "Showing 1-20 of 33" Ummmm...could I get my other 13 pictures back please?
Steve in California
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OPne issue is that really skinny, tall 15 inch tires these days are devolving into a niche market, mostly filled with non-performance oriented tires. The other typical user for tall skinny 15 inch tires is old VW Beetles (probably a much larger market than the smaller number of old Volvos), and that marketplace doesn't demand performance. I used to own an old '63 beetle, and one time I tried some spirited cornering and the dern thing just tipped over. Hah!
A wider rim gets you back into the range of sizes commonly produced today. Granted a really good skinny tire can be as good or better than a crappy wider tire, but it's just hard to find a really good skinny tall tires these days, and a good wide tire is still better than a good skinny tire.
Plus it just looks better. I'm used to seeing my PV with nice fat tires filling out the fenders just right, and once a year or so ago I put my slotted steel wheels back on when I took the rims off for new tires (Toyo Proxes FZ4 - 205/50/15) and it just looked WIERD and neutered, with those very skinny wheels just hiding deep inside the fenders.
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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I'll certainly agree with you there. Finding decent 'original size' tires is nearly impossible these days. I won't say I'm much in favor of the current fad of REALLY TALL wheels, but they ARE better than the 'Matchbox' tiny wheels that were in vogue just a few years ago.
If for nothing more than the aesthetics, I rarely see a vehicle with these after market wheels that are congruous to the car's design. A few trucks and SUV's (especially the H2 Hummer) look really good with the tall wheels.
However, a Nissan Sentra sitting on 22" wheels just looks stupid.
Anyway, I was at Pep Boys auto parts the other day, looking at tires to replace my aging Michelins. I liked the Hankook Touring tires, and they are available in the 195/60/R15 size to fit the Volvo wheels I'm running. I'd have my choice of high mile (long life) tires or sticky ones with about 2/3 the longevity of the other set. Considering how I drive, the stickier my tires, the better. Especially with Hot Stuff needing an alignment and new urethane bushings, better sway bar(s), etc.
BTW: On the 'Clearance' rack at Pep Boys, I found two sets of wireless tire air pressure sensors. Never opened, marked down several times from about $200 until I bought them out for $39 a set. I installed one set on my Dakota Quad Cab and will give the other set to my brother-in-law for his birthday.
Installation was a snap (instructions in English! What a concept!) and they are easy to move to another vehicle so you really don't need more than one set.
Although they're on my truck at the moment, I plan to use them on our various trailers. The last thing I need is to wreck a trailer carrying an irreplaceable car like our Abarth!
Anyway, if you come across a set, the ones I got are "Securitire" brand, black box. Love that technology!!
Steve
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Steve - I've seen the system you're describing, and I had some serious reservations about the way it works. If I'm not mistaken, this is the type that replaces your valve cap with a transmitting device, which defeats (depresses) the schrader valve inside the stem, correct? This leaves you with the transmitter (which is nothing more than a cap, after all) being the only thing that keeps air in the tire. Made me nervous as Hell.
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Gary L - 1971 142E ITB racer, 73 1800ES, 02 S60 T5
BlueBrick Racing
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But at least it would tell you it failed to keep the air in! ;)
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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hate to dissappoint you Larry, but I think the bolt circle on the FWD cars is 108mm--close to the 140/240 4 and 1/4". There's got to be no end to the wheels available with 4-1/2 circle -- decades worth of Fords and Chrysler cars used them. I had a set of American Racing 5 spoke mags on one 122 and Mustang GT (1966) chrome 14's on another.
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I bet they looked good too. Larry
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No. The later models have a 4ΒΌ" bolt circle, starting with the 140/164 and
later 1800s.
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George Downs, Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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Yeah, thats what I thought after measuring the 940 pattern . I have a nice set of old laguna`s with the GB center caps that I bought for the 240 . I wish they would fit the 544 . They are the style like the panasports or the superlites and really look good on a pv . Thanks for the help. larry
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