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I recently updated to a v70 and passed along the trusted 940 to junior. He is sixteen and it's his first car.
Just before, I put in a new battery. There were charging problems that seem to point to the alternator so I changed it. I also check every ground I could find and made sure the connectors were secure and clean. The charging problem continued. The car would die until I could jump it and get it home. I put a charger on it and he drove it okay for a few days. The last item I replaced the alternator ground wire.
The car died again last week, and when I went to jump it I discovered the battery contacts on the hot side looked a little rusted on the inside contact. I cleaned it up, jumped it, and took it to a local master mechanic known for quality, thorough work. He went through the car and checked the cables (at my suggestion) for any drops indicating damage not visible. The car is a 1993 940 with 366k miles. They gave the car a clean bill of health. I told sonny boy his troubles were over.
Then when I was out of town I got the distress signal. The car lights got dim and the car stalled in the middle of the road in 4 degree (F) weather. We had it towed to the same guy and he said the charging system again tested fine (!). What he said he found was that the radiator, once the car warmed up and built up pressure, had a tiny leak that squirted coolant directly on the alternator. He said the coolant caused the belt to slip and the alternator to fail charging. He said the alternator was charging perfectly when the belt was gripping.
First off the radiator is a Nissens I put on in 2003 when Esteban (he named it Esteban) was a young buck with 186k miles. I am not pleased to get only 4.5 years out of a radiator. Secondly, I don't know if they really did discover the cause of the problem. I hate to keep putting him through this, plus I don't have time keep at this. I'd like to fix it once and for all and put the charging issue behind me.
1) Is it bad battery cable?
2) Is there somewhere else I need to be looking?
3) Doesn’t it suck that I got only 4.5 years on a Nissen? Swedish Engineering says they only warranty it for 1 year (I did however get 180k miles out of it and that is nothing to sneeze at).
4) Does anyone out there feel sorry for me?
:o)
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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posted by
someone claiming to be sloopjohnb
on
Tue Mar 4 05:01 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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First one just leaked, the second one leaked into my trans fluid!!
Didn't wreck the trans, but cost me a new radiator (went back to volvo thankyouverymuch, elvis has left the building) and aobut $80 dollars in synthetic transmission fluid, $25 in ethylene glycol, and I still have a dirty cooling system judging from the black @%@# in my coolant expansion tank.
This spring it's wipe out the coolant expansion tank (physical removal works best with this slime) and then acid flush the system, flush twice or more with city water, drain and refill with volvo coolant and distilled water. Ought to keep it for another two years.
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I have not seen an all metal radiator for this car. Too bad, as Nissens is such a perfect fit.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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While I can accept the slipping belt rationale, fix this and then test again. More than once the exciter circuit has failed and the car will not charge. See the FAQ for details.
What kind of Nissens did you buy: all-metal or aluminum/plastic?
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I am ordering another Nissens. Maybe it was a fluke, or the upper hose clamp was too tight. I have not seen the car yet. Just got home. It was Al and plastic. Looked like good quality when I put it in. Fit like a charm.
I will look up exciter circuit. Would it be intermittent like that? Never heard of the exciter...what does it do?
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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"...I will look up exciter circuit. Would it be intermittent like that? Never heard of the exciter...what does it do?"
The alternator's "exciter" circuit uses an external current to make the Alternator start "putting out" voltage at start up low rpms. From then on the Alternator is "self-exciting" and continues to put out voltage.
The initial ("pre-excitation") current comes from ground side of the Instrument cluster Batt light (and three other bulbs*), which have hard-wired Battery voltage applied to their other side. This bulb current goes to the alternator via the thin red wire at the D+ terminal, then finds ground thru internal alternator circuits and its external ground wire.
Once the alternator spins up and is producing voltage, the D+ terminal changes from being a ground path to become a voltage source. When this voltage is applied back to the Instrument cluster warning bulbs on what was their ground side, there is now opposing voltage on both sides. As a result, current no longer flows thru them and they go out.
* The other bulbs adding pre-exitation current to that of the Batt light are:
• Parking Brake
• Brake Warning
• Bulb Failure
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Bruce,
I am getting ready to pull the cluster tomorrow and reflow the solder connections. I read as much as I could find in the FAQ and I am not going to be surprised if I find some obvious defects.
But you made mention of the ground-side and I am not sure if there is something else that I should specifically look for.
In your debt....or to brickboard,
Mark
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Hello again.
You might take the terminals off the battery and give em' a good scrubbing.
Goatman
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Mark,
Before you dig into the cluster, let us know how the warning lights behave.
1) Do the 4 lights below come ON when the key is turned to ON (position II)?
2) And then go OFF when the engine is started?
• Battery
• Parking Brake
• Brake Warning
• Bulb Failure
If the answer to both 1 and 2 is "Yes", then the exciter circuit to and from the alternator is OK. Ignore the cluster for now and see question 3 below.
If the answer to either 1 or 2 is "No", let us know which is failing:
A) The ground path to Alternator D+ to turn the lights ON
or
B) The voltage return from Alternator D+ to turn the lights OFF.
3) If it's a "Yes" to 1 and 2—Then is the Alternator "charge" voltage at the Battery terminals at least 13.5V with engine running? [i.e., higher than Battery voltage with engine off, and Headlights on for a "load".]
If the answer to 3 is "No", then this could be the subject for a new thread:
"Low (or no) Alternator Output".
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Got the new radiator installed and the system filled and the car then stalled after about ten miles of driving. Just died in the middle of the road (according to Junior). It would not turn over. Stone dead. Weak click.
SIDE NOTE: I was surprised the way the radiator failed, along the plastic tank (naturally) vertical seam on the top side near the hose nipple. A 6" crack. The antifreeze was up to date, for sure.
Jumped started (perfectly) and disconnected the cables and took it home (2 miles) and the battery charger read 100% (the voltage was somewhere in the mid-12's I just don't remember exactly).
Weird....the car is dead, jumps instantly and runs off the alternator, battery is full of juice after three minutes of running. The car runs for an extended period of time and idles with no problem. How could it go dead and then start like this?
All four lights on the dash are illuminated in the ON position, and all four go out when the engine is started.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Man you have got to have a battery cable problem.
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I think we are onto something here. I never understood the connection between the instrument pod and the charging system. From time to time some of the lights have stayed on. I good smack on the top of the dash above the cluster and the lights went out. Sounds like a short or connection going bad.
Question is where do I look? Do I simply reflow all the solder connections that are visible (like the HVAC control box relay) or is there something specific I must inspect to locate the problem?
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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By saying the lights were fine and then saying that the lights stayed on sometimes you blew my logic out like a McDonald's burrito.
Geez...
You'd better have a look behind the dashboard.
Goatman
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Okay....sorry...
The important thing, is that you were right on the money....and me, not being the principal driver, gave you a faulty predirection on the source of the problem. I am at fault. You are, so far as I am concerned, perfect.
Maybe the burritos are the brain-food I am lacking..... :o)
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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See the FAQ article on the subject in Starting and Charging.
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Hi,
If you don't notice (or hear) the alternator belt slipping until the car dies there is something wrong with you. Period.
There must be an explanation for this trouble.
1. Does the AMP aka battery symbol indicator light when the key is in the on position?
2. Does the AMP light ever while driving?
Check the fat red wire from the alternator to the starter motor. It must be intact.
You already replaced the alternator without a change in the fault right? The alternator must not be the problem.
I think that it has to do with the fat red wire or the D+ wire, check both.
Good Luck!!
P.S. An aftermarket voltmeter gauge from Autozone would probably be pretty useful in lieu of the situation.
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1. Does the AMP aka battery symbol indicator light when the key is in the on position? (Yes it works.)
2. Does the AMP light ever while driving? (I drove it recently and all the idiot lights were out.)
Check the fat red wire from the alternator to the starter motor. It must be intact. (Could it corrode from the inside filaments first?)
You already replaced the alternator without a change in the fault right? The alternator must not be the problem.
I think that it has to do with the fat red wire or the D+ wire, check both.
Good Luck!!
P.S. An aftermarket voltmeter gauge from Autozone would probably be pretty useful in lieu of the situation. (I've put VOM on the battery and the alternator to check the drop across the cables, and the times I checked it everything was fine.)
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Hi,
The wire could be broken along the entire length of the harness and corrode through a pinhole in the insulation. This makes a VOM check useless until the fault actually exists.
Since your dashboard light works as it should at all times you might do well to replace the entire fat red wire.
What I meant by "aftermarket gauge" was a permanent voltmeter installation like you have on aircraft, submarines, or where it really matters if something goes wrong. With this gauge mounted to the dashboard, you will know if there is a problem before the car dies in the street.
Goatman
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