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I've been looking for a NA Sedan 940 for a while without much luck. I see a 95 with 201K miles on it about 100 miles away. The guy claims he is the 2nd owner and has had it only about a year. He thinks it has no issues, but he has no maint records. Is 200K miles too much for a daily driver? I've turned wrenches on other cars, but I'm a Volvo rookie. He is asking $2K, but I don't think I'd offer more than $1K. Is it even worth that?
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posted by
someone claiming to be Lane from s.c.
on
Sun Jan 6 03:28 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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I have 562,000 miles on my 1993 and no major issues, I bought the car new. I would trust it long distance more that my s-80. I did replace the trans. a few years ago. I change oil every 10-15k miles with no problems but I use syn. oil though.
Lane
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Good day, I bought a 1993 940 non-turbo 5 years ago with 238k miles on it. I have replaced most of the electrical stuff, the car was very clean, no body damage. It's my baby. I want to upgrade to a V70 97-99, but this car keeps running. Good luck.
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Chudar, could you elaborate on "replaced most of the electrical stuff." What did you replace? I'm trying to estimate how much $$$ I'll have to put into it.
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I have a '93 944T with 205K miles on it and did not replace anything electric with the exception of the AT OD relay which I then later did not need anyway as I mechanically fixed the OD to always work. This car was not kept up by previous owners but has been good to me for the last 45K miles. Knock on wood.
Just buy the car get the owner down to $1500 or so when the car is clean and mewntion all the comments you got in the 20 or so replies to have him except the offer. i don't think you'll regret it.
--
EJO now a 1993 944T 205K; ex '65 123S; ex '75 245; and ex '81 242GT; also 2001 Kia Sportage, Chrysler 2002 T&C and 2006 MINI Cooper
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My 940T had 238k miles on it when I sold it. It was still pretty darn solid (all major parts original). I had said I would get rid of the car either when it dies or I get bored of it. I got bored of waiting for it to die :)
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Mileage is meaningless these cars. Condition is everything. If the car is clean and solid (and no rust!), I wouldn't hesitate. If you've turned wrenches on other cars, you shouldn't have any trouble with the Volvo. It's pretty easy.
We bought our 740 at 273K miles, and it's probably the nicest Volvo I've owned to date. A pinch nicer than Dad's 1995 940 at 135K (his needs a little TLC).
-Ryan
--
Athens, Ohio
1987 245 DL 314k, Dog-mobile
1990 245 DL 134k M47, E-codes, GT Sway Bars
1991 745 GL 295k, Regina, 23/21mm Turbo Sway Bars
Buckeye Volvo Club
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posted by
someone claiming to be Tim
on
Sun Dec 30 05:33 CST 2007 [ RELATED]
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I would not worry about the 210K. Bought my daughters 92 240, basically the same engine and trans as the car you are looking at, with 179K. My 93 945T is up to 338K and doing fine. Engine and trans on that car are solid.
Price seems a bit high though.
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Surprised no one mentioned it, since it's this site's primary resource for owners of these cars:
Refer to the FAQ!
http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/BuyingUsed7xx.htm
Good luck with it, sounds like a good bet, just work out the best price.
--
::: Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: 92 244 ::: 90 745GL ::: 90 745T ::: 84 242DL ::: 90 745T Parts ::: Used to have : 86 244DL, 87 244DL, 91 244, 88 244GL, 88 744GLE, 82 245T, 86 244DL, 87 244DL, 88 245DL, 89 244DL!
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the value of the car depends on it having a sound body and how many new parts.
Three years ago, I sold a '90 744 TI with all new rotors and pads, and new tires for $900, the cost of the new parts! I only sold it because my daughter returned the '95 854 that she was driving, and I had too many cars.
The car had 235,000 miles on it - it now has 274,000 and the woman who bought it has had no issues with it. Everything on the car worked except the AC.
I think that she got a great deal. I'd consider buying the car back from her if she ever wants to get rid of it.
Have a knowledgeable tech look the car over - you really cannot reverse body rot economically.
--
'96 855R,'64 PV544 driver, '67 P1800 basket case, '95 855, '95 854, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 435,000 miles put on 9 bricks
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200k is fine as others have noted. Regardless of your expertise with wrench turning, get a pre purchase inspection at a Volvo independent. It would provides a good insight and if it is done correctly you will get a laundry list of issues you would not find easily. At least you will know what you are getting into. Of two I had a chance to get done, a dealer ended up lowering the price 1k and on the second car, the radiator side blew out during a pressure test.
I have not checked prices lately but I think ebay would be a good price guide for what these go for. As far as ebay, I’d never buy a car I didn’t inspect and drive.
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In September I bought a '93 945T with 204K miles for $1400.
The seller disclosed a few issues, some were true, some imagined, but others cropped up with time (dash bulbs out, seatheaters not working). Thankfully there are a lot of these cars in junkyards so it's easy to find parts and there is a wealth of info in the FAQ.
I always do a major maintenance when I buy a car, oil, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, timing belt and tensioner, water pump, fuel filter, airfilter, crank sensor, vacuum hoses. This way the car will be very reliable. I also bought spare FI parts at the salvage yard and threw then in the trunk: AMM, ign module, ignition relay. All this cost ~$500, so for under $2000 I have a reliable, confortable car.
FWIW I did a compression check and it came out very good, so the engine is in very good mechanical condition.
bye,
Csaba
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Not to take away from what you said Csaba, but these cars might be plentyfull in the yards where you are, but here in West Michigan I can not find any in a 150mile radius, with the exception of Chicago land area maybe, but a 5 to 6 hour round trip is not woth the time and money to look there.
These cars are not that plentiful available in the Midwest as they are out West, out East and down South. I agree that the NA motor as found in the 240, 740 and 940 is probably more plentifull, but I have yet been un-able to find any used part for my 205K 944T daily driver.
--
EJO now a 1993 944T 197K; ex '65 123S; ex '75 245; and ex '81 242GT; also 2001 Kia Sportage, Chrysler 2002 T&C and 2006 MINI Cooper
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I wouldn't agree that they are more scarce in the Midwest generally. I think it may be more of an urban/rural difference. Here in the Twin Cities of Minnesota there are quite a few on the road and are not rare in the junk yards. 940's aren't as plentiful as 2 and 7 series, but I think that's just an age thing with the late 80s models now most plentiful as junkers. The 940s are starting to appear there now.
--
St. paul, MN. 740 Regina x 2 and '95 944. Several past 200-700.
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Okay, Wish I was there, or do I?
Happy New Year.
--
EJO now a 1993 944T 197K; ex '65 123S; ex '75 245; and ex '81 242GT; also 2001 Kia Sportage, Chrysler 2002 T&C and 2006 MINI Cooper
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If the car seems to be well taken care of, 200K+ is nothing to worry about. You can usually tell quite a bit about the condition of the engine by looking in the oil fill hole---you should be able to see part of the camshaft, valve springs etc. If the oil was changed regularly, the metal parts should be a golden to bronze color (other than the part of the cam that actually opens the valves, which shoule be as shiny as chrome) If it is pitch black inside, and the shapes of the metal parts are obscured with thick, goopy deposits, it's not such a good bet.
$2K is probably a bit high, unless the car is REALLY clean, meaning it looks like it's 5 or 6 years old, with no cosmetic issues inside or out, which is often (but not always) a sign it was well taken care of mechanically. For that price, it should also have no mechanical or electrical issues whatsoever.
If it looks a little ratty around the edges, but is otherwise sound, something around $1200 is more reasonable. Of course, there may be regional variations in pricing. I live west of the DC area, and older Volvos are plentiful here. They might tend to be more expensive where they are scarcer.
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Only 201 k miles? You're talking about a volvo, not a chevy.
If it's in good shape, go for it. If you are unfamiliar with the systems, pay an indie mechanic well versed in Volvo to do a pre purchase inspection on it to make sure it's up to snuff. My wife commutes about 80 miles daily in Volvos with over 200k on them and has had less break downs than most folks with new cars, although our 940t only has around 196k on it...it's the baby in the fleet, all the rest of my vehicles are in the 220k+ range
Volvo is a different beast. 'merican cars, drive them 120k , throw them away. Japanese, drive them 120-160k and throw them away ( assuming the electronics don't act up before then, if so all bets are off earlier than that ). Volvo drive them 125-150k miles, spend about $1000-1500 in maintnence replacing assorted items, drive another 125-150k, do again, drive another 125-150k, repeat, etc ad nauseam .
201k miles is nothing to these cars if they've been taken care of.
--
-------Robert, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '92 Ford F350 diesel dually
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Let's not let the Volvo longevity go to our heads. You're out of your mind if you think a Japanese car or even an American car is done at 120K miles. This isn't 1970 anymore. Electrical issues?? My Volvo has had more wonky electrical issues than any Japanese car I've ever owned. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
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hello
i have had more than a few japanese cars and they have been the most reliable cars i ever owned. i had almost 0 problems with the ones i owned kept one toyota 11 yrs and only replaced one A.C. pulley.
cant think of any other problems i had with any others i had, same luck with jap bikes = 17 or 18 of them.
now i also had a few american cars and they were more problematic and i wont be buying any more of them, the problems i had with american cars popped up before a warranty ends, well i think there is a few pretty good ones.
i like volvos but only the older red blocks for many reasons one being i can with the help of the volvo fans fix them myself, dont want to mess with the newer ones. when the redblocks are all gone i will probably go back to honda or toyota which both did me well. the wifes sister has a older accord with 280,000 miles and its their daily driver. they havent had hardly any problems with it.
i think some of the cars from asia are total crap and they seem to be like many items today, you use them for a short time than throw them away.
its common to see japanese cars at the Junkyards with well over 200,000 miles.
there are good and bad in all cars. but i think there is a reason for the same cars always selling in the top of the heap.
as you can see below i am quite a volvo guy.
take care
mike
95 944 turbo = 144,000
94 945 turbo = 87,000
85 244 turbo = 225,000
daughter 94 944 154,000
son 92 944 third fuel pump, broken odo
son 86 244 152,000
soninlaw 89 744 191,000
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Where do I come up with it??? Experience and lots of years of it.
Sure you get the exceptional US or Japanese car that lasts a long time just by the sheer numbers produced, it's going to happen. But barring miracles, most US cars don't make it to the 150k mark ( aside from trucks which are produced to a different standard for the commercial fleet market )most are ready to poop around 120k. The US car makers start obsoleting dealer needed parts at 10 years and earlier with no aftermarket support to fill the void for a good portion of them, leaving junkyard parts or car replacement as the only real options.Heck, I had to dump a beautiful Mercury with a little over 100k miles on it with a perfect engine and tranny because a number of the emissions control parts were no longer available...anywhere.
Trucks are different , the primary market is fleet and commercial use and they stock parts for 20 years for most models, longer for some and there's a vast aftermarket.
Japanese cars change the electronics an average of three times during every model year and start obsoleting parts at 8 years, so unless you get one of the miracle cars, you get a car that will run basically trouble free until it hits the point,usually before 160k where they go by by, and even that had been changing a lot lately ,Toyota has finally admitted that their recent bunch of years have gone to crap and they've had to slow down new model releases for damage control ( My mother bought a new Camery about 2 years ago and that heap has been thousand dollaring her to death with non warranty covered items )
yes, we have electric issues on these old volvos, but unlike Japanese electronics, these things are easily and economically repairable, along with all the other parts on these cars. When the electronic bugs show up on a japanese car, good luck finding the fault, and if you have to pay for diagnostics, it's cheaper to trade it in ( which the japanese dealer networks have encouraged for years by offering way more than the cars are worth in trade if you buy another which aside from breeding brand loyalty, also artificially inflates the used values of used Japanese vehicles across the board making their cars look like they are worth more than they really should be which also pushes their sales, but it makes for an unrealistic second hand market. Rather smart marketing on their part, but it doesn't make the cars any better, it just does a great job of hiding the faults).
--
-------Robert, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '92 Ford F350 diesel dually
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Sorry for going off topic but wow. First off why are you stuck on the electronics of these cars? What electronic parts seem to fail that nobody produces? Think about it...if all of these parts fail at the same time, why wouldn't an aftermarket manufacturer jump on that as a selling opportunity? Why are there Japanese cars still on the road older than 8yrs if the parts are obsolete? How on earth is my 15yr old Miata still running? Sarcasm aside, I'm curious where you found this information.
You are basing your facts on a sample size of 1 for your mom's Camry (the very fact that you spelled it wrong makes me question your Yota knowledge) and claiming that represents all Toyotas ever made. Trust me, even a newer Hyundai/Kia will make it past 160K without much trouble. Heck there's an Accord that made it to 1 million miles and I've personally driven one with over 500K miles. These are not flukes.
The reason for a high resale value on most Japanese cars has nothing to do with crafty marketing, more likely a good product. People don't keep buying piles of crap. People don't tell their friends and relatives to buy crap. And last time I checked dealerships (regardless of the brand) are not offering large sums of cash for trade-ins.
Oh well, we both like Volvos so I guess we can agree on that.
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Sample size of one...not hardly, I've been a certified mechanic since WAY before it was cool. I've turned wrenches everywhere from dealer service at AMC JEep Renault dealer to running a machine shop to specialized exotics shop to fleet service on buses and heavy road tractors, and settled in on European stuff for fun in retirement.
I won't even fool with anything Japanese, they make me ill and angry. Their electronics generally hold up well, but when they start having problems, all the different systems that were interwired to save a few feet of wire here and there turn the whole thing into a nightmare. Engine won;'t start, check the window motor. Some of the things they put together are insane. Even when I fooled withthem, I would send people with wiring problems to the dealer, because I couldn't stand to bill them for the diagnostics, and I'd warn them what the dealer was going to hit them for it, and they'd still come crying back to me about the $90 an hour diagnostics for two days and still having problems and the dealer trying to talk them into trading, and I'd have to agree with the dealer.The dealer is the only financially viable option with wiring and electronic problems on those things because they always will absorb the diagnostics when the owner trades in, so they come away happy. Independent can't do that .
I've seen it happen more times than I care to remember.
I've talked a number of former Japanese make owners into Volvos and even with the new model FWD quirks, all have been much happier and most have found their vehicle upkeep expenses have actually gone down overall.
Hyundai, please. I had a lady last month with a Hyundai just over 60k miles, and the engine grenaded... naturally just out of warranty ( that big long warranty only covers tranny and diff, engine only get 50k warranty ), She's stuck in the same loop. car wasn't worth fixing for the cost of another engine and related damage, but the dealer will give her more than it's worth to get another so she's jumping back in, even knowing the end result, but this time she's planing on trading right before the warranty goes out and trading out of the brand. And she's run into dozens of people who have had the same thing happen with those cars...after hers went belly up.
Had a guy with a Honda hybrid a while back have the thing throw a rod through the block just after warranty was up ( big warranty on the bateries on those things, not much on the engine ) with 3 years left on the note. Searched all over the country and the best deal I could find him on a junkyard engine was about the same cost as a mid range truck diesel, turned out those things were croaking left and right and used engines were at a premium( his honda guy was going to put a used one in for about 6 grand, but would put any engine in for him if he could find one cheaper, which we did out in CA, halfway across the country ) Not the kind of expenses you expect with an almost new car with a supposedly bullet proof reputation, but are much more common than people realize.
don't like my spelling, tough. Thatls what happens when you get old and crippled up with a degenerative rhumatic disorder and can only use one finger on one hand and 3 on the other. IT has nothing to do with knowledge and experience...and i'm still turning wrenches and have to turn work away not being physically up to it anymore.If I were still up to it, I'd be swamped every day. i have a reputation for always getting things right and being straight with folks, which is a rare commodity around here.
I've got a regular with a 740 bringing a later model 960 in next week for a pre purchase inspection with close to 200k on it and I don't foresee finding any deal breakers on it. previous owner is a relitive of hers and it's got all rrecords since new.
They're looking to buy it to replace about a '96 GM car with only about 100k on it that they recently had to spend a bundle on ( and had to have the thing down for over 2 weeks just trying to locate a proper AC hose assembly due to it being a crossover year or some such rot and the hose assembly used was no longer available and after getting a number of non fitting hose assemblies ( as in so far off that they were clocked where rigid lines would have to go about 6" into the block to be able to bolt on to the compressor) from different suppliers including the dealer,I finally had to go to the city to a major chain distribution warehouse and start going through boxes in the warehouse for a few hours till I found one close enough that I was able to modify a few things to make it fit. Had it been a Volvo, I could have had one the next day, or I would have just made up a new hose assembly for it , it would be no big deal to make one up, I have all the tools and the bulk hose and fittings for it, but that stupid thing was made mostly from pre shaped metal tubing and not enough room behind the compressor to use a universal hose adapter and screw on hoses. I didn't make a dime on that deal)and it has a pile of fixes coming due. A lot of headache for a car just over 10 years old with that low a mileage.
I've never had that kind of problem finding parts for a Volvo, not even my 21+ year old diesels, and that's just the kind of headaches that drove me to Volvos in the first place.
--
-------Robert, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '92 Ford F350 diesel dually
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....and they are often a BIG problem for older Asian vehicles. Years ago, I worked in the parts department of a Saab/Alfa Romeo dealership, and then at an independent import shop/parts store. It was possible to get most anything you might need for a 20 year old Saab or Alfa (except internal parts for the 2 stroke engines) though you might have had to wait a while on the older Italian stuff. The Japanese makes don't usually support their cars for more than the (statutory) 10 years, at which point they dump the inventory, either to a remainder/wholesaler, or else they just scrap it.
The Japanese also have a BIG problem in that they change things far too often---a good example I can remember is that there were FOUR different (non interchangeable) kinds of front brake pads for an 84 Civic, depending on engine size and body type. Contrast this with Fiat, who used the same front pads on everything except the 850, from 1969-82. The Japanese can not leave well enough alone, and redesign perfectly good parts, sometimes as frequently as every model year. The European philosophy is to keep things the same if there is no REAL reason for change.
Another parts disaster was the electronically controlled carburetors used on most Japanese cars in the mid 80s. An overcomplex nightmare, they were just about impossible to get working correctly, even if you could get a rebuild kit. Worse yet, some Nissans and most Mitsubishis had carbs with bakelite bodies, which were not intended to be overhauled. The only option was a NEW unit, for $600-800, (and not easy to find, and make sure you get exactly the right one---can't return it if the box has been opened) in other words, about what the 10-12 year old car was worth at the time. Needless to say, these vehicles are now extinct.
Then there are the ideas that are just plain dumb, like they hydraulic radiator fan on some late 90s Camrys---driven by the power steering pump.
I find the legendary reliablity/durability of Japanese cars doesn't stand up all that well under close inspection. Several friends of mine have/had older Toyota trucks. All of them, whether 4 cylinder (22R) or V6, have needed major valve work, including camshaft(s) before they reached 200K miles. The 22Rs also needed a timing chain set. Total repair bill---over $1000 in every case. Volvos with SOHC engines NEVER seem to have problems in this area. I've seen Hondas that were full of mysterious electrical problems, as bad as any BMW or Audi, and Mazda V6s that didn't hold up any better than the early versions of the notorious PRV V6 (Volvo B27/B28)
Where I live, it is rare to see any Asian cars more than about 15 years old, outside of a junkyard. While there are a few exceptions, the vast majority of cars in this age group are either European (Volvos and diesel Mercedes) or American (usually the big simple RWD ones, if they haven't rusted to death) Most of the Japanese cars are disposed of because they have become uneconomic to repair, not necessarily beacause they are well and truly worn out. A lot of the ones in the junkyard still look decent. American cars of similar age usually look awful, even if they are still running. Rust everywhere, yellowed plastic headlights, cheap water-based paint peeling off in sheets......
I strongly dislike working on Japanese cars. The underhood area is usually very crowded, with a tangle of mysterious wires and hoses running every which way, and all of the fasteners and brackets have sharp edges. I usually end up with cuts on my hands after working on one of these, which is rare with a Volvo. To be fair, many of the newer, more expensive European cars are almost as bad.
I can only hope that RWD Volvos will remain viable as everyday transportation until all the gas is gone, as I can't see any good alternatives at this point.
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Ah, the Italians, Brings back fond memories of my Moto Guzzi 850 El Dorado motorcycle. The generator and starter from a fiat would fit, as well as the distributor cap ( just tape off the two holes on it not being used ) and points from an alfa and condensor from a Lancia were the best match, but point and condensor set from a fiat would work fine. Talk about functional interchange :-)
That bike had about a half million miles on it before some clown in a bronco used it and me for traction. About a quarter mil on the original engine before I got it , and the rest on one I put in soon after I got it. That was a machine of beauty.
Part of the big reason for the constant parts changes within a model year on the Japanese cars is the constant race for bragging rights in the car magazines. A quarter second on the 0-60 time, 5mm shorter braking distance, etc etc. Those car of the month, of the year type blips in those magazines sells a lot of cars to the bench racers who get impressed by all that jockying for position.
I did find it interesting , that after all the engines dying from sludge and other short sighted problems that Toyota has finally publically stated that they will be scaling back on new model production to try and get some of those problems straightened out, but the problems will still be built into the next few years planned production until they can figure a way out of their old bad habits.
--
-------Robert, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '92 Ford F350 diesel dually
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Thanks for hijacking my thread! Just kidding. I think we are all influenced by the small sample size we see around us. My boss drives a '99 Olds. He has put 260K miles on it with zero problems, so he swears by GM. My bro-in-law has a 98 Camry with 280K miles with zero problems. A coworker's 02 Accord blew its tranny with 40K miles (just out of warranty - $3000) and another coworker had so many problems with his new 03 Grand Am that he sold it after a year.
I'm sure there are some Asian cars with questionable quality, but the fact that you see so many early to mid-90s Accords/Civics/Camrys/Corollas on the road today tells me that those were solid cars and that parts are readily available.
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The reason you still see so many old hondas and toyotas on the road isn't because of superb quailty, it's simply a result of the sheer number of the things built and sold in the first place. the law of avarages is going to keep a hefty number rolling with that many on the road to begin with, you just don't notice the equally hefty number that have croaked. In the 90's you couldn't swing a dead cat in california without hitting a honda, with that precentage of the rolling stock being hondas, you are likely to see a lot of older ones. Around here, you don't see hardly any, even though we do have hot and cold running honda and toyota dealers here, there aren't many over 10 years old still rolling.
On the other hand, there's only one Volvo dealer in this state, and they never sold many ( volvo /brands WXY and Z, with little emphisis on the volvo ), but there's tons of old Volvos still on the road here ( they usually stay functioning until they get condemned to duty at the controls of local kids off to college where they have a bad habit of winding up wrapped around trees )
Kind of reminds me of all the heavy truck ads by International bragging about being the #1 selling heavy truck in America for years. the things cabs have no insulation, they leak, rattle, short out and fall apart, but they are dirt cheap for fleet purchases so there are an insane number of the things still on the road, including some pretty old ones still slogging along, but it's not from better quality, it's simply from the sheer volume of the things put on the road in the first place ( just about all of the major fleets bought them and traded every 3-4 years leaving a mind boggling number of the things on the road ), while you don't see many old Autocars and Macks, they didn't make as many, but there's still oodles of those things from the 50's and 60's and 70's with millions of miles on them ,still on the road in daily commercial service.
Interestingly enough, the old gal who got me interested in Volvos worked the parts counter at a nearby parts store ( best parts counterperson I've ever known, if a part was available anywhere for any odd thing, she could find it, and if none available, she could usually rig something to get it functioning, gosh, I miss her since she retired). She was a died in the wool Honda owner , but was the first person to point out to me the hard specifics of the parts availablity problems on the japanese cars ( and she showed me the proof )and how Volvos had no such problems and can be kept on the road indefinitely.
She was right, and I've never looked back :-)
--
-------Robert, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '92 Ford F350 diesel dually
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Yep, sorry about the hi-jacking but I can only take so much wrong information. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, being on a Volvo-only website to expect such a response. Carry on.
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