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Crazy distributor noise. 120-130 1967

Hello all. Quick recap:
Recently put in a '74 B20F with 30k on it, K-cam, aluminum timing gears, D jet intake and injection components (was originally K jet), controlled by megasquirt getting a tach signal from the negative coil terminal.

Put the engine in, started it up and it sounded horrible. Checked valve lash to find PO had set valves to about .04 and I tightened them down to .020 warm. He said he made them so loose to get more vacuum. So a lot of the noise went away and I wasn't as worried that I bought a bum motor. So after chasing down a few other gremlins the thing idles really nice, but when the rpms go over a certain range (probably 1-2k) there is a horrible clacking metallic sound from the distributor area.

When I bought the engine I was told that the distributor was making noise because it was on it's way out (1975 breakerless 240 ignition). So when I put the engine in I put in my old trusty cast iron mechanical advance unit. But it made a heck of a racket. I disassembled it to find that the pivot points on the weights were way out of round and I figured that was what was making the noise (one weight could contact the body of the distributor). So I put in the POs 1975 distributor after putting in another shim to get rid of some extra axial play (and installing the black box) and the thing still makes the noise. I pulled the distributor drive gear out and it looked a little worn but not "metal clanking sound" worn, and the gear on the camshaft looked OK as much as I could see of it.

I have tried three distributors and they all make the noise. I was so weary of banging advance weights that I even cobbled and welded an old breakerless distributor to lock out the centrifugal action. The sound seems to be coming from the distributor, or the base of the distributors (using a stethescope). But it is loudest when the stethescope is placed on the distributor body or the distributor clamp.

The noise seemed to be a little different with each distributor I put in. With some distributors it would make the racket a soon as I revved above 1.5k rpm, but with the one I locked out the centrifugal device (vacuum device still operating) it seemed to make the sound at higher rpms and when over running the engine (in gear downhill). I didn't dial in the timing of each distributor as I tried it so now I am wondering if the noise could be serious pinging (I can't say that I know exactly what pinging sounds like since all of my old motors didn't have enough compression). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated I don't no what to check next. What could be making such noise??

Thanks in advance,

Mario m.








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    Crazy distributor noise. 120-130 1967

    I found some interference issues in the distributor cap that seemed to take care of a lot of the noise. There is still some metallic clicking at higher rpms but now I just don't know how sensitive I am being after hunting down noises for a while. The thing that threw me for the biggest loop was that my cast iron dist. made noise as well as the breakerless distributors. They use different caps so the cap interference couldn't explain the noise in both. It might be a case of my iron distributor weights failing at the same time as I was having cap issues with the other distributors. Coincidences can sure screw up problem solving.

    thanks,

    mario m.








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    Crazy distributor noise. 120-130 1967

    Hello Mario,

    Do you know what brand of camshaft was installed? The aftermarket cams are crap!! I have found "white box camshafts" with the lobes ground way of time.

    As I stated in a recent post, the only truly good aftermarket camshafts were made by TRW, and Federal-Mogul bought that division and dispanded it as it already had a camshaft manufacturing division, Sealed Power, but they do not make camshafts for the B18 or B20 engines.

    I use Iskendarian camshafts as Volvo now wants over $700.00 for a "D" camshaft, which I have had faithfully copied and if you want a "K", the Isky "VV71" is very close and is what I use for a Kjet equipped engine or for a mild performance carburated engine.

    BTW, I believe that IPD PERFORMANCE camshafts are made by Iskendarian.

    Was the thrust spacer ring installed on the camshaft? The ring is installed before the keyway is installed on the timing gear end as it has to slide over the cutout for the keyway that locates the timing gear.

    If this spacer is left off, the camshaft can walk forwards and backwards, possibly causing your noise.


    Did the rebuilder know how to set or did he check the distributor drive gear end play?

    If the end play is excessive, the drive gear can jump up and down, possibly causing your noise.

    Something that should have been done early on in the engine assembly, I know as I am building (2)B20 engines right now.

    To do the job you need access to the crankcase (oil pan and oil pump off) and I have the luxury of having the camshaft out as well, but it can be done with the camshaft still installed.

    You then install the distributor drive gear with a very clean shaft so that it slides easily into the bronze distributor drive bushing, then bolt down the aluminum distributor base housing WITH THE GASKET, DO NOT INSTALL THE DISTRIBUTOR.

    Then reach into the crankcase and try to slide the distributor drive gear up and down.

    If you have more than a very small amount of play, you need to push the bronze bushing up towards the distributor until the play is mostly removed.

    You have to remove the drive gear to adjust the bushing

    I never have found a specification for this end play, but I know it aint over .100" like the one I worked on today.

    BTW, if the oil pump does not have an IPD re-enforcing ring, you should install one as it can save the pump if an ear tries to break off. And if you do install the ring, you might have to clearance the end of the distributor drive gear where it fits into the oil pump/re-enforcing ring and it is alot easier to check the fit when you have both the oil pump and drive gear in hand.

    I would strongly suggest that you get rid of the aluminum timing gear in favor of a steel gear set, especially if you have dual valve springs!! I learned the lesson the hard way with a DNF (Did Not Finish)at Orange Show Raceway many blue moons ago in Hobby stock race.

    Fortunately no damage to the engine, just to the pocket book and the good time we were having up till that point that day.

    Eric
    Hi Peformance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
    Torrance, CA 90501








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      Crazy distributor noise. 120-130 1967

      I was told that the oil pump does have the reinforcing ring on it.

      I think my next task will be checking the lift provided by the cam shaft, then if that shows nothing I will take off the timing cover and check the end play and thrust washer. Maybe a bent push rod?

      As for the distributor drive gear:

      I never actually pulled it all the way out of the engine. And it was very difficult to pull it out as far I did. Should this gear come out easily and smoothly? The bushing adjustment sounds like it requires removing the engine again or dropping the cross member.

      Thanks,

      Mario m.








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        Crazy distributor noise. 120-130 1967

        Hello Mario,

        The problem that I have encountered with the faulty cams was discovered when adjusting valves.

        After performing a valve adjustment, it was noticed that rockers for #4 cylinder had more lash at the rockers when past TDC for that cylinder, so check for that.

        Since the engine was recently rebuilt, if it was cleaned properly it should slide in and out without to much effort once you have the end of the drive gear out of the oil pump re-enforcing ring.

        Yesterday, when I was setting the end play on the 2 engines I am building, the drive gear would slide out slowly all by themselves when I had the engines turned upside on the engine stands and remember this is with the oil pumps NOT INSTALLED.

        Of course I had cleaned and wire wheeled the shafts of the drive gears.

        You are correct that if you want to service or check the drive gear bushing in the car, you will have to lower the crossmember to get the oil pan off.

        Eric
        Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
        Torrance, CA 90501








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          Crazy distributor noise. 120-130 1967

          Rather than go to all the trouble to get to the bottom, could you just
          put a spacer on top (under the gear)to take up the slack? Or leave the paper gasket out?
          --
          George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!








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      Crazy distributor noise. 120-130 1967

      I have an IPD 7001 camshaft in my garage that came in an Isky box with Isky
      paperwork and both VV71 and 7001 marked on it. It certainly was NOT $700!
      KGTrimning sells OEM grinds at prices that I believe are also quite a bit
      below that. What do you recommend for a B30? Right now it has an IPD 7002
      (it took 3 to get one that would last - first two were replaced under warranty
      for soft welded lobes) but that cam has been in the engine for around 15 years.
      IPD is not very encouraging about a new one, in fact they disclaimed knowledge
      about WHAT was the 7002. (It is the 6-cylinder version of the 7001.)
      Should I get a D or K from KGT when I go to Sweden with the VCOA? or whatever
      they might recommend that would be better?
      --
      George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!







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