1997 965 wifemobile.

The wife called, worried, car did not want to run at all. She was 3 blocks away so I told her to come on home. Made it OK.

Later I took it to the nearest gas station. On the way I noticed that it didn't want to run, but did pick up for a bolck or so. The CE light began flashing regularly, like it was a special signal. No reference in the Owner's Manual.

Car quit 100 yards before the station, one red light away.

Everything OK now. Put in about 2 gallons gas, enough to get across the street and into the station. It took 20.3 gallons.

But - WHY the flashing CE light?

Has such a thing happened to you?

Then, upon getting gas and going on with the errands, I noticed that the CE light, which had been on since two weeks after the Volvo dealer "fixed" the problem last July, was no OFF. Yahoo !

Maybe it flashes while it is resetting? Maybe it flashes when the tank is empty?

Gee, my 1988 240 is soo much simpler.


Thanks in advance,

Bob

:>)

It flashes to indicate there is a serious misfire that may damage the CAT.

(See my posts on the 900 page starting last Friday.
--
'96 965, 16' wheels, Michelin Pilot Sports, rear 18mm bar + Koni, 201 HP cams, 141K. Put 200K on '85 745 TD.

Haven't gone to read the posts you reference. How about a quick answer here?

The CE light flashed for a few seconds, and following the incident has been constantly dark (except for bulb check). Does this indicate that the damage to the cat was not serious?

Thanks,

Bob

:>)

Setting the MIL when running out of fuel is to be expected with the OBDII system for many reasons as have been mentioned, Lean Trim condition, catalyst problem, misfire, etc... all caused by lack of fuel. The OBDII system is smart enough under certain circumstances to reset itself if the condition is not repeated in x number of start cycles. It may still be loaded in the ECM for a while, but the MIL will reset The ECM may clear the code completely if 50 start/stop cycles have occured and the problem has not arrisen. But it really depends on the codes, whether it is considered critical or not.

DEWFPO
--
1998 S90 077,400 and 1995 964 154,100

Running out of gas should not turn on the check engine light. You had a check engine light for 5 months? You could have gone to an Autozone or Pepboys where they read and reset the codes for free. At least, then you would have known what the problem was.
The stumbling when close to empty could have been caused by injesting water from the bottom of the tank, or some other crud. That could have caused the flashing CEL because of multiple misfiring. Change your fuel filter, it is probably full of junk.
There is no excuse for driving with a CEL on. Perhaps the bulb finally burned out, and now you will never know...

Klaus
--
1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi

Klaus:
With all due respect, I do not think the fuel filter is full of junk as a result of running out of gas. It could be dirty on its own of course. As you know the fuel pickup point is in the bottom of the tank. Therefore all fuel used comes from the bottom of the tank at all times.

Same at the gas station, with the exception that there is a space at the bottom for the water and dirt to settle. The pickup is not at the lowest spot. However those who say do not get gas when you see the delivery truck there are probably correct. Adding fuel to the storage tank can stir up the stuff in the bottom.
At least that is what I believe.

Your posts on this lists and you knowledge of the vehicles are valuable to us.

S'V'

Thanks for the correction SV. I also never get gas when the tanker truck is parked at the station.
I know that the fuel pickup is at a low point in the tank, but if one consistantly runs around with little gas in the tank, there will be a lot of water from condensation and flakes of rust from the fuel sloshing around the tank. A new fuel filter is relatively inexpensive and easy to install.

I intend to continue to learn about Volvos daily from reading the posts from others. I am not a mechanic, but I have slept at a Holiday Inn Express :)

Klaus
--
1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi

Well, SV, with roughly your quotient of the variable "due" respect, i kinda liked Klaus's shame-on-you post. Seems none of us posters to this thread know the inner workings of OBDII as applies to BC's 20 gallon tank. The suspicion of the filter's having picked up more glop than yours do might be based on a refueling habit inviting condensation implied by the admission this tank got so low in the oil capital of the world.

To someone claiming to be Joseph Morton -

My question regarding the flashing CE light could not be asked or answered properly unless I confessed to running out of gas. Yes, it is a sin, but the loss of time and blockage of lots of going-home traffic is surely sufficient atonement, don't you think?

I am a little surprised that you did not comment on my driving 5 months with the CE light on, since that is - no doubt - an environmental sin.

Many folks here in the oil capital of the world are ready, willing and able to fill up as often as every day, and some must in order to keep their large SUV's abd Hummers and 4-door pick-up trucks running. Minimum condensation that way, I suppose. In fact, within a mile or so from my house there are Shell, Conoco, Valero, Kroger, and another Shell station. Price that day for Shell RUL was $2.079 per gallon. (Oil capital priced.)

I elected to attempt getting to a station and not to pour in some gas from the generator supply can at home because that gas is about a year old, and probably not too clean.

Except for this once, we fill up as soon as the low fuel light comes on, which is about once a week. Wife has a 44-miles-a-day commute. Lesson learned.

Why are you not a registered BB member?

Regards,

Bob

:>)

Klaus -

Re: CE light on 5 monthws. Last summer the light came on 5 days before I had to renew the emissions sticker. AutoZone scan said fault in the evaporative emissions system. No other clues.

After worrying and sneaking around for a month (we live in th far suburbs) with an expired sticker, we took the car to Volvo of Houston. They charged $100.00 to find the fault.

They said it was the something-or-other valve. Sits in the engine bay on the inner LH fender. For only $145 more they would replace it. We did that. Left the shop, CE light dark, drove directly to our emissions test site and got the renewal.

Two weeks later the CE light came back on. AutoZone scan said the same thing, fault in the evaporative emission system. They did not reset the light.

I think the dealer did not actually know what was wrong, they just changed something, charged me a small pile, and reset the light. So being royally P.O'ed, I just let it ride. Had the code indicated something more serious, I would have gotten it repaired.

Now, after the no-mo-gas rain dance, the CE light is not on. Why? BHSOOM

Regards,

Bob

:>)


BHSOOM = supposedly old japanese saying "Beats Honorable S*** out of Me."

To BC with the CE lite.

BTDT with a S60T
I changed that thingy also and it did not help me either. However it was $25 from FCP and was the easiest repair I ever did. Think it was called a purge valve.
I tried a aftermarket gas cap and it did not help either.
Finally got a Volvo cap for $30-something and that fixed it.

Same symptoms, same code, same drive it for a couple of weeks and it comes back as you had.

-- S'V'

It could be that the dealer did it right, replacing the valve at the cannister. If, however, the charcoal cannister was full of liquid fuel, the code may have come back. Running on empty would have sucked the cannister dry??? Be careful that you do not overfill the tank. Once the pump handle clicks off, do not add an extra gallon. Being close to full should be good enough for another 350-450 miles.

A scanner would be nice to have, wouldn't it?

Klaus
--
1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi

Yup. I suppose that the dealer could have done it right, maybe some other part of the evaporative emission system went bad. About that I will worry when and if the CEL light prompts a scan that is code P0440 again.

I have heard that it's not good to overfill the 960 tank, unlike the 240s. Usually I put in a bit more to get the gallons bought to be in even tenths. Also, after "click-off" the 960 will hold far less than the 240.

My understanding of the operation of the charcoal cannister contains no relationship to having an over-full or empty gas tank. How do they relate?
Maybe my understanding is in error - been there before.

Regards,

Bob

:>)

Hi BC,
The vapor line from the tank to the charcoal cannister can be filled with gasoline if the tank is overfilled. When the cannister is full of raw gasoline instead of vapors, it can no longer function as it is supposed to, and the valve to the vacuum line becomes coated with varnish from the gasoline.

Just don't fill up these modern vehicles past the first click at the pump, unless the pump is defective :) It would be better for miles per tank to moniter tire pressure every time you tank up. Get your wife one of those digital ones, and make sure YOU use it.

Have fun,

Klaus
--
1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi

The charcoal canister is designed to temporarily store HC (gasoline) vapors, not liquid. The HC's adsorb to the surface of the carbon granules. This is a temproary habitation. When the ECM determines the engine is ready to handle these HC vapors, air/vacuum is drawn thru the charcoal canister and the carbon happily gives up the HC molecules into the air stream running thru it and then it is burned in the engine. The charcoal canister is essentiall 'cleaned' all the time by the ECM thru the use of the valve that the dealer said they replaced. The charcoal granules have a limited amount of surface area just like anything else and once the entire surface is covered with HC's, no more is stored.

DEWFPO
--
1998 S90 077,400 and 1995 964 154,100

These newfangled cars with their OBDII, Bob, whatcha gonna do.

One nice thing is there exists a standard of sorts, one that will at least describe behavior regardless of marque. OBDII must flash the MIL when something that needs immediate attention is happenin'. Like lack-o-fuel. Misfiring. Catalyst damage imminent! So while i dunno nothing 'bout Motronic but i can still look up standard OBD functions.

I purchased a Scantech scanner from Advance Auto a year ago with Christmas money for 100 bucks. Best dang tool in my inventory now-bet I've saved twice that amount in being able to do all the cars we have and most the problems that come up are miss fires in a cylinder that the scanner will point you too or a vacuum leak that you would have to hunt and find. If I knew how well these things work I would have bought one years ago.
Poolman