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I just bought my first Volvo today, a decent '88 780. I had read the forums here and on other sites and was able to verify that the major things(rust, e.t.c) were taken care of. Other than some interior bobbles the car is in great shape with a stack full of recipets from previous owners. My only question is about the V6. It seems a bit "heavy". Meaning that it seems a bit slow to respond to the go pedal, almost like a catalytic convertor is going bad (which is on my list of things to check. Is this maybe normal for this motor, or shuold it maybe be a little more "light". I know that it's a vague description, but i cant think of any better way to describe it at the moment.
Being the proud owner of an 86 Audi 4000Q i have a sense of what pita's these older imports can be, but i also know how rewarding they are too. My experiences with the Audi groups has been excellent and i look forward to getting to know some of you here.
Thank you,
Jesse Erickson
88 780 V6, Silver
86 4000CSQ, Black with oxidation accents
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The B280FT also requires valve adjustment. However, the Bosch systems for fuel injection are pretty much the same on the B240FXs and and the B280F, just a couple more injectors. Use the Volvo green book procedure to do it quick and easy. Order Intake o-rings and each bank valve cover gasket (they are sold seperately) from FCP or other vendor as most Volvo dealers do not speak V-6. 88 780 B280F Pearl Red Metallic
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Greetings from a fellow '88 780 owner. I also have the B280F v-6 engine in my 780 (the B230FT turbo-4 wasn't available in the US 780s until '89). When I bought the car, my 780 also seemed to lack power most of the time, and on very rare occasions it would suddenly experience a significant jump in horsepower for a few seconds. After testing several components, I was able to track the problem back to a failed knock sensor (there are two of them on the v-6). The computerized EZK-115 ignition system automatically retards the timing very heavily if it looses signal from one of the knock sensors, and causes the car to behave as if it lacks power. Feel free to bookmark or print out this page, as there is a lot of information included in this post.
In the Brickboard FAQ, there is a section on how to build the special tool "Volvo Test Light #5280." (click here) This test light works for retreiving the ignition diagnostic codes in most 740/760/780 vehicles with the B230 and B280 engines (4-cylinders from 1985-1993 and the V-6s from 1987-1990). The instructions on how to build the tool and the description of the diagnostic codes are included on the FAQ page.
I'm assuming that the knock sensors are the problem, based on your description, but use the 5280 test light to make sure. The particular knock sensors used on the B280F v-6 engines are Bosch 0261231007, and the plastic shell of the knock sensor seems to decay and flake away after 100,000 miles. If you wish to purchase a pair of them new, I've found them as cheap as $70 on the web (click here), and they cost about $100 or so at my local parts store. I'm working on a wiring solution to retrofit the 2-wire Bosch knock sensors that were used on the 4-cylinder engines to my 780 v-6. The knock sensors used on the 4-cylinders are very robust and rarely fail (and are also very plentiful in the salvage yards). The 4-cylinder and the v-6 knock sensors are mechanically the same as far as the function and output of the sensor, and the 3rd wire is only for shielding purposes on the v-6 application.
Replacing the knock sensors on a v-6 is not an easy task (like on the 4 cylinders). To access the knock sensors, you must remove the intake manifold, and then remove the cooling system Y-pipe on the top of the engine block (large Y-shaped pipe about a foot long). The knock sensors are held to the top of the block by torx bolts, and there's a good chance that the sensors will be crumbling away (or break apart when touched). Replace them as a pair, since you don't want to repeat this operation in the near future. Also, check and replace any of the water hoses that you now have access to (if their condition merits), since you'll have to remove the intake manifold again if they start to leak. If you're a do-it-yourself mechanic, living in a snowy climate like me, you may decide to postpone this operation till spring when it can be combined with other items (like a cooling system flush, accessory belt changes, etc).
Regarding the care of your 780 and the V-6 engine, there isn't a huge amount of info available in the Brickboard FAQs, but there are several owners here in the forums. Don't hesitate to ask questions, and feel free to email me if you want me to read a particular post of yours that I might have overlooked. (I don't read every post on the board, just the ones with relavent subject lines that I might be able to assist with based on how much free time I have at the moment.) I have most of the Volvo service manuals for the 780 on my bookshelf at home, and would be glad to share the information.
Here are a few relavent 780 posts that would merit reading:
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=723988
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1038925
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=916727
The unofficial 780 website (info, etc)
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=731350
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=937949
If you have the time available, download a copy of the Volvo service schedule (maintenance chart) for your car from the Volvo online library. http://www.volvocars.us/_Tier2/Owners/Library.htm
Take a moment to look through your reciepts and find out what items on the car are due for service and what still has time/miles remaining. Your car will last a lot longer if it's up to date on all the service items, and it's easier to take car of a something at your leisure rather than pay for a repair after a part failure on the side of the road. Of note, flushing the brake fluid and the engine coolant EVERY 2 YEARS is of extreme importance. The aluminum engine blocks in the B280 (v-6) need to have fresh corrosive inhibiters in the engine coolant, and these expire after about 2 years. The brake fluid absorbs water from the humidity in the air and then starts creating rust in the brake components. The small particles of rust floating in the brake fluid lead to seized caliper pistons and failed Master Cylinder seals. If the brake fluid is anything other than clear, it needs to be flushed.
FYI, I also run synthetic motor oil (10w30) in my cars. It helps keep the engine oil seals in good shape, cleans out sludge from the oil passegeways over time, and helps keep the parts well lubricated under the most extreme conditions.
Lastly, the PRV-6 engines (the B27, B28, and the B280) were a joint venture between Peugot, Renault, and Volvo (hence the PRV). The early generations, the B27 and B28 had terrible problems with snapped timing chains, poor oiling to the camshaft, etc. However, all of these problems were corrected for the B280, and it is a very smooth running engine with a lot of mileage potential. The B27 and B28 engines were ready for the scrap yard by 100,000 to 120,000 miles. However, there are many B280 engines out there with 300,000+ miles on them. It doesn't hurt to check the valve-to-camshaft clearances once in awhile (supposed to be checked every 30,000 miles, but you can go a bit longer). You need only to remove the two valve covers and use a feeler gauge and a wrench & screwdriver to adjust them. Be sure to check the timing chain wear indicator under the left valve cover, and more info can be found listed in the post I've referenced below. I've got about 150,000 miles on my engine, and the wear indicator is showing 1/2 a notch (out of a maximum 4 notches), so the chains have a LOT of life left in them. More info in this post:
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=923176&show_all=1
God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
--
'87 Blue 240 Wagon, 268k miles.
'88 Black 780, PRV-6 (B280F), 149k miles.
'89 Black 780, turbo-4 (B230FT), accident vehicle I'm planning to restore.
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Thank you for the tips. I am, as another post had reminded me to do, baselining the engine, the basics, cap/rotor wire plugs e.t.c. were all ok, but by no means great. They should be in by the weekend.
The issue you describe make sense since the car seems to run better before it gets up to temp. Which begs the question, do they run in a closed loop until warm?
I happen to have the manual and the service log that came with the car, heck, i even have the window sticker! What i dont have yet is a service manual, do you have a brand you would reccomend? I have used the Bently manuals for my AUDI's, tend to stay away from the haynes and chiltons for the older stuff.
A couple of quickies if i may. First, the oil temp seems to stay on the cold side, possible sensor problem or is there an oil cooler (the air dam is missing)?
Lastly, from a performance standpoint, what is reasonaable to expect form this motor, stock or otherwise.
Thank you to all who have responded
Jesse
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"The issue you describe make sense since the car seems to run better before it gets up to temp. Which begs the question, do they run in a closed loop until warm?"
The ignition system is active and intelligent right from the start, but it changes the knock advance/retard based on the engine temperature, knock signals, speed & load, etc. The lack of a signal from the knock sensor will cause a 9 to 11 degree retard (safety program), but the fact that the engine is cold may cause it to advance it a few degrees. As the engine warms up, this advance will be reduced or eliminated. Also, while the engine is in warm-up mode, the fuel injection system will run the mixture a bit rich to speed up the warm up process, and this will give a bit higher compression pressures (but almost neglidgable).
"What i dont have yet is a service manual, do you have a brand you would reccomend? I have used the Bently manuals for my AUDI's, tend to stay away from the haynes and chiltons for the older stuff."
Unfortunately, Chiltons produced horrible Volvo manuals and I avoid them at all costs. The US-Haynes book for the 700 series was incomplete, and never received it's final update (like the 240 Haynes book). However, it does go up through 1988 and thus covers the B280 engine (be careful not to get confused with the older B28 engine CIS stuff), but will not cover the 780 body/glass/interior. Sadly, Bently never wrote a Volvo 700 series book, and thus the Haynes book becomes the only affordable/cheap service manual you can get for a 700 series Volvo.
The best service manuals to have for your Volvo are the actual Volvo-Green manuals. On eBay, they typically cost as little as $5 for the more common manuals to $25-$30 for the more desired ones. You can also purchase them new from Volvo at www.volvotechinfo.com for about $20 to $50 each. Check eBay frequently and try to get a copy of the following ones:
-Volvo 780 Glass & Interior Fittings
-Volvo 780 '87 New Car Features (covers all new hardware used on the 780)
-Volvo 780 '88 New Car Features (updates from '87 and basic IRS info)
-Volvo 700/900 Independent Rear Suspension (IRS)
-Volvo 700 Brakes with ABS (make sure it says ABS in the title line)
-Volvo EZK 115, 116, 117 Ignition Systems
-Volvo B280F Fuel Injection Systems (LH 2.2)
-Volvo B280 Engine (covers repairs & service)
-any year from '88 through '91 Volvo Maintenance Manual (walks you through the steps in the service schedule that you downloaded from the Volvo online library) This one is probably not needed if you're a competent do-it-yourself mechanic.
"the oil temp seems to stay on the cold side, possible sensor problem or is there an oil cooler (the air dam is missing)?
The lack of an Air Dam may be causing the sensor to read colder, since it's right there on the bottom of the Oil Pan. My oil temperature gauge hold at right about the middle. The Oil Temp Sensor is mounted in the Oil Drain Plug on the oil pan, and it may be over-cooled or it may be going bad. It's hard to say without checking it against a new unit and comparing resistance values. I'd warm up my own 780 and give you the temp/resistance numbers myself, but unfortunately I've got the intake manifold and other hardware removed at the moment. Fortunately, the Oil Temp sensor on this car only sends data to the dashboard gauge and neither the Ignition System or the Fuel Injection system received data from it (but they both receive data from the Coolant Temp Sensor mounted in the waterpump). FYI, the Coolant Temp Sensor for the instrument cluster gauge is a seperate sensor, mounted under the intake manifold and the back end of the engine block, and only supplies data to the instrument cluster.
Lastly, from a performance standpoint, what is reasonaable to expect form this motor, stock or otherwise.
About 165 horsepower, decent acceleration, but nothing to race with. It's not hard to break a tire free while accelerating around a turn or on damp pavement, but she wasn't intended for racing in her stock form. The car can hold it's own on the Autobahn, but not against a Ferrari or Maseratti. This vehicle was designed to be a "Touring car" and was intended for long, comfortable drives through the countryside or along a winding mountain road. -the opposite end of the spectrum from "The Fast & Furious."
God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
--
'87 Blue 240 Wagon, 269k miles.
'88 Black 780, PRV-6, 149k miles.
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Hello Jesse:
Do you have emissions testing where you live? If so, this will provide you with objective data on the condition of your car. High NOx would suggest vacuum leaks or a bad cat.
Any evidence of rich running? Dark tailpipe, gassy smell, etc?
Have you checked the function of the 02 sensor with a voltmeter?
What is the condition of the ignition components? Cap, rotor, wires and plugs-- the cost of everything but the plugs is a little distressing on the B280F... Baselining all this stuff removes a lot of variables and allows you to diagnose things with greater confidence.
Flush the coolant right away-- the aluminum block in this model is unforgiving when it comes to corrosion.
I liked my '89 760GLE, although it was a little thirsty-- not that my '92 945T is much better...
Good luck!
--
Herb Goltz, Aurora, Ontario, Canada '92 245 w/124K mi, '92 945T w/200K mi
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Some googling suggests to me that you may have some leaking or clogged fuel injectors. I've never done it, but you can clean them with compressed air after soaking them in injector cleaner I think. I wonder if it would be possible to remove injector wires one at a time to identify the one that makes no difference. Otherwise a routive cleaning might be good.
I know at least that on my car if I remove 2 injector wires it will still start.
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