posted by
someone claiming to be Volvo owner new to the 240.
on
Tue Dec 27 16:40 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Just had a bunch of engine seals replaced, then read about the infamous flame trap. I will bet that it has seldom if ever been checked. On the '90 240, the flame trap is located in the flared end of the crankcase vent hose down between #3 & #4 intake manifold pipes, underneath the fuel rail. Connects to a plastic T fitting, with one going hose down to the flame trap base attached to the engine block below, and another 5 mm line up over and back to the manifold.
I cannot get my fingers around this thing, can it actually be disconnected and checked by a human with a normal size hand with 5 fingers? What if the hose going down to the flame trap base is bad, breaks, or comes off, it looks like that hose could never be accessed from above. So is the trick to disconnect the fuel injectors and fuel rail to better expose and access the flame trap & vent hoses? Can the job be done with long nose pliers? Any tips are appreciated for the not so dexterous not so experienced mechanic!
(PS: When I asked the local Volve dealer about this, I got a scary answer, so would like to leave the "big jobs" for them, and if possible the "small jobs" for me.)
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It is a pain, but it can be done and becomes a knack.
I believe the trap is on the same place as my 84.
Removing the IAC helps. I believe what I do is reach around the manifold from the rear with my right hand. To replace it, I seat it with that hand, and use a long screwdriver with my left to drive it home.
IPD sells a relocation kit that turns this into a 17-second job.
Steve M.
Raleigh NC
84 240
73 145
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It is actually call ed a relocation kit. I want to check their site to get one.
Thanks
Frank
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I, too, bought the relocation kit from IPD for my '84. But I wasn't satisfied with it and thought I could do better. So I used some of the parts from the IPD kit and substituted a longer hose (the one that comes up from the oil trap) that I bought separately. Now it can be inspected in seconds (literally).
In retrospect, you could save some money getting some of the hoses as generic aftermarket (from, e.g., NAPA), and just a few of the critical ones (e.g., the one that changes size from the throttle body nipple to the flame trap) from Volvo.
Or, if you get the IPD kit (for the convenience of having the critical parts on hand), I suggest improving on it by substituting a longer vertical hose as I noted above.
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I think there are some Bosch 74x series from the '90s and from '90 model year specifically.
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Thanks for the info. BTW, the '90 745 IS a turbo. I'll try the ECU from the '91 244. If I need to get one, what's more reliable, a 951 or 561? or is there anything I should look for in a used one?
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Apparently, there were a lot of the original, pink label, 561s that had the fuel circuit go bad early on. My opinion is that the bad 561s mostly failed long ago and the many I have seen going now are OK. The later production 561s got white labels and were supposed to be better.
The 951s are for the same LH 2.4 application, but are programmed differently and are supposed to be in every way improved. One difference I know of is that they do not use the cold start injector at all, but use the regular four injectors to enrich the mixture for very cold starts.
--
1991 745 213K miles, 1991 745 210K, 1990 744 GL 183K, all Rex-Regina - past 240s
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Definitely a 951 or a rebuilt 561 (white label). The 951 tends to be a little more expensive. Make sure the ECU is returnable if you get a no start. I have not seen many bad 951s though. Pink label 561s in a salvage car that has no other visible reason for being junked, is suspect.
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I just bought a used 951 and paid $100 for it. My 1992 240 has a 561 in it and I plan to replace it with this 951. Anything special you have to do before you unplug and install it, like disconnect the battery etc? I hope it is a simple procedure because I dont want to blow the car up...I am kind like that guy on TV..Tim the ToolMan!!!
Thanks
Frank
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No, nothing special. There is something about allowing a short burn-off cycle to complete after you run the car, so give it a minute or two before pulling the ECU. That is it, I have done it hundreds of times without any loss of life or property ;)
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Just disconnect the battery to be absolutely sure. I have just swapped them in and out with just the key off, with no ill effects, but why take even a small risk with an expensive item when you can avoid it?
--
Andy in St. Paul. '89 244 153K mi, '91 745 Regina 206K, '88 244 184K
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Ditto, the 95x seems much more resilient than the 56x - 'x' referring to either 1, for NA, or 3, for the turbos.
Another way to tell if it's compatible, without digging to get at the ECU: a car with an AMM ending in 016 is LH2.4 (like yours), 007 is LH2.2 (the previous generation), and the presence of a turbo is pretty self-explanatory...
--
Chris, Dartmouth NS Canada 70 M-B 280SE, 83 245DL, 84 244 turbo, 90 780 turbo, 92 VW Golf, 90 740 Rex/Regina
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The flame trap service on a 1988 240 is sooooo much easier than on the earlier B230F and B23F engines.
The housing for the trap is ABOVE the intake manifold, and a normal-size human hand can get at it. A 45-min job on my 1986 244 is a 10-min job on my 1988 244.
Above the oil separator box are 6 parts. The "S" hose, housing for trap, trap, large hose, small hose, brass fitting.
Over time the hoses get oil-hardened and brittle and clogged. The large hose is a special one, I'd get a new one from a dealer. Same for the "S" hose. The small hose is a NAPA or other parts house item. The trap is from an aftermarket supplier. If you are using synthetic oil, omit the trap.
The brass fitting should be removed and cleaned out. Seldom needs replacement.
Was it a service writer and the dealer that you spoke to? They work on commission, and are hardly ever DIY friendly. Make friends with the parts clerks, they like to help - usually.
Good Luck,
Bob
:>)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Volvo owner new to the 240.
on
Wed Dec 28 20:10 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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It is wedged in pretty good between the manifold pipes and under the fuel rail, but I will give it a try. If one needed to service the oil separator, I see no way to get at it without pulling off the intake manifold, but again, I spend very little time with a wrench in this area. One of the dealer service managers told me service of the flame trap is listed in their manual as a 6 minute job on the 1988 series and up. When I asked him about getting it done, he told me that because my car was 15 years old etc, it would likely take much more time, several hoses would have to be replaced, and it would be a much bigger job. I know the other service representative and the parts manager, and have been a good customer to this dealer. I will go in person, and if I get a problem, will confront them and the manager head on as I have nothing to loose and can go elsewhere for decent service. Thanks for you help!
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Hi.
re: "...If you are using synthetic oil, omit the trap...."
I've observed the same thing -- my flame trap never seems to even begin to get clogged.
I've used synthetic oil since the late '70's -- for almost all of that time, AmsOil (but I'm sure other good synthetic oils are equal), as well as Volvos since 1973. And since they've been using flame traps in Volvos, I've checked them regularly (currently, I have an '84 and two '93's, the latter with the more convenient location for the flame trap as OEM, and I converted the hose configuration on my '84 to a likewise more convenient location as well) -- I also check the rest of the passages by blowing down the hose and feeling the air flow at the oil filler cap.
But I can't remember the last time I've seen my trap clogged. In fact, I've still got the old-fashioned metal spiral style trap in my '84, and it's still clean! And the plastic ones in my '93's are still white (well, maybe a bit tan, probably more from heat than from an oil coating).
I've never been sure that it's because of the synthetic oil -- I thought maybe because I just take such good care of my cars (change oil regularly, etc.), but maybe it is another benefit of synthetic!
Another addition to the many reasons I like synthetic oil. :-)
Have a great holiday.
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volvo does not specify anything about oil except service quality; change frequency is the best metric.
the flame trap itself is a red herring. PCV problems begin at the breather box, and if you are doing any service on an FI red block you will have to take off the intake.
The car needs air; fwiw I take out the flame trap - I want the passages as clear as possible, and again, oil change frequency is important. The red block motors do not require synthetics, although some owners do...
--
Stef (81 245 B21A SU M46 3.91) 327000km - in the garage for the winter, 81 244 BW55 3.31 on the road)
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Bung nut - easy to wrap your hands around it if you jack up the LR side & pull the LR wheel. That's if you can't get at it easily from the trunk hatch - I haven't had one that stubborn yet.
--
Chris, Dartmouth NS Canada 70 M-B 280SE, 83 245DL, 84 244 turbo, 90 780 turbo, 92 VW Golf, 90 740 Rex/Regina
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See the FAQ at
www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineSealsBeltsVent.htm#OilBreatherBoxBeneathFlameTrap
--
Sven: '89 245, IPD sways, electric rad. fan conversion, 28+ mpg - auto tranny. 850 mi/week commute. '89 245 #2 (wifemobile). '90 244 (spare, runs).
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I've been able to get my hands in there and twist out that plastic flame trap housing on several 240s. I wear a large size glove for frame of reference for my hands. The trap itself is a perforated plastic insert in the top end of the housing, just below the bent top hose. IPDUSA.com has a nice picture of the components.. -guri r
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