posted by
someone claiming to be Cardog
on
Wed Sep 14 16:24 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Hey all,
My '72 142 has an all rebuilt suspension, - poly bushings, Bilstiens, Vpd springs, ipd sway bars, and all new balljoints and steering rods, (center + tie rods) good tight idler arm and steering box. Also front air damn, 195/50/15 Bridgestone SO-3 tires.
The question is...When I get to about 75 the front end gets "darty" and seems to want to follow every surface in the road. (fairly smooth, but highly traveled/worn I-84) Should I look at the alignment or could it be the tires? They are excellent handling tires, (feedback on Tirerack) but they might want to follow the road surface too much? The car sort of starts squiggling a little instead of tracking straight.
I hope I've explained this well. Is there anything else I should look at? It handles great on smooth roads below that speed.
Thanks,
CU
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How much offset do your rims have? Measuring your track is the easiest way. Since your tyres are smaller in diameter you will want to increase your track to compensate.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Cardog
on
Tue Sep 20 15:58 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Hi, I have an old set of Fondmetal rims they are Italian and look a lot like BBS rims. I believe they are actually for a 242 and have 20mm offset (?..not positive).
When i am on flat roads all is Ok, but some of the highways around here have alot of truck traffic and are wavy with "truck ruts" where the constant run of 18 wheelerss have worn two valleys in each lane. The car seems to get trapped in there and wander within them.
I will check my alignment as it was done a while ago and with the vpd springs and such low profile tires it has hit hard on some road sections. ( I have cut my bump stops some).
I do have an air damn on the front.
In the future will switch over to 60's profile tires.
...And a note on speedometer error. I have passed several roadside police radar setups, where they have a radar set up and a sign to let you know your speed and each time I have been very accurate (30-45mph). So either they are not calibrated honestly or (and more likely) the original Volvo spedometers that everyone is relying on are about 5mph opyimistic and with the smaller tires Mine is actually more acurate. I am also judging by the flow of traffic I am driving with ie. if I was really only doing 70 when my spedo said 75, I would be getting passed by everyone. _just my opinion, not an absolute fact.
Thanks for all of the input from everyone.
CU
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The rims don't sound too radical, the smaller diameter tyres are helpful when you make the track wider.
Did you get a wheel alignment after the suspension work? Did you get the tyres after the wheel alignment? Swapping the fronts to the backs is always a good idea, but don't do it until after you have a wheel alignment.(If you actually haven't had any alignment)
Tramlining is always hard to get away from, trucks leave tracks going up inclines because their drive tyres are pushing harder in those places. Take note of where your car gets darty, if it happens in both lanes going up, down or along the flat, I would suspect your car. If it happens in the slow lanes going uphill only, that's the road, you can't do much about it other than try & let your car stay in the one track.
What size tyres were you using before? If you can be bothered, you can give the speedo a tune up, but it should still read higher than what you are actually doing as your current tyres are roughly 10% smaller than original.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Cardog
on
Wed Sep 21 16:13 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Thank you for the response.
I did get an alignment after the work and tires, but I have also hit some pretty bad pot holes and rough sections of road so I probably need to have it done again. Yes, I do notice that it is worse in the slower and the right hand lanes on the road and it doesn't happen on smooth roads, but it is much more noticeable in this car than any other that I drive.
So I am looking at a new alignment and eventually I will probably go with a 205/60/15 when these tires wear out, (but they are incredible tires-great grip great stopping power, I have never autoX but the car feels set up to be really good at it, very nimble with a lot of grip).
Thanks again!
CU
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Agree with Walrus and Kyle. You definitly need an alignment. If the caster is off that will contribute to a loose,sloppy feel. It sounds from your tire choice that you must plan on doing a bit of autocrossing. The stock diameter for your car would be 25.4 inches. The 195/50/15's have a diameter of 22.7 inches. That is going to throw your speedo way off. At an indicated 75mph you are probably only going about 65 to 68 mph. With gas prices close to $3.00 gal you might want to save the Bridgestones for autocrossing and use a taller tire for everyday commuting.
Good luck. Jim
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Yeah, speaking of which, I put on some new virgos with hugely wide 225/50 tires on my 142 recently. I don't know which is making the biggest difference, the increased rolling resistance from the fat rubber, or the smaller overall diameter when compared to my 195/65s that I was running. In any case, now my speedo says 75 when I'm actually only going 70 mph, that's pretty rough for me because I like to always go 10 mph over the speedlimit, and I've got a fourspeed... Ouch, now I get 17mpg...
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This sounds like a classic case of insufficient toe-in (Different from too much
toe-out.)
Here is how I do it:
Get some 2" masking tape, a big block, a ball point pen or sharpie and wrenches
to adjust the center rod.
Jack one front wheel clear of the ground. Run a band of tape around the center
of the tread, all the way around to where it overlaps some. Using the block
and the marker or pen, hold the point very steady against the center of the
tape while you turn the wheel, making a mark on the tape. If it doesn't meet,
try in a different place until you get a good straight line all the way around.
Let the wheel down gently and do the same on the other side. Measure the
distance between the lines on both wheels in front and in back. (a helper is
most valuable here.) They should be from 0 to 1/16" closer in front than in
back. If not, adjust the center rod until they are, remembering that as they
get closer in front they get further in back so it changes pretty fast.
If you found it wider in front than in back, ¡Bingo! That was your problem.
If not, the different tires may require different alignment parameters and I
really don't know what they would be. IPD can probably give you guidance on
this because they have sold a LOT of specialty wheels through the years and
helped the buyers get them to work right.
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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George, I like your tape-and-line method. It sounds a lot more accurate than trying to measure to a common spot on the tread. And it's very tough to measure to the inside edge of the rim. They have tools that are like a giant set of calipers that you can measure to the rim edges, but of course they cost m - m - mmm - money.
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My old 1800E got a bit light and indistinct feeling aboe 90 or so. I stuck an IPD spoiler on and it made a very noticeable difference.
--
I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.
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If you changed all those components, sure would be worth having the alignment checked.
I have had my 122 become "darty" when the toe was incorrectly set. Don't remember though if that was caused by too much toe-in or toe-out.
Are the tire pressures correct? I've noticed a big difference on the highway when the front tires have more than about 30 psi.
--
'60 544, '68 220S, '70 145S, '72 144E, '86 745T
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I'm assuming you did get an alignment, right? Other than that, the tires you have on your car are waaaaay too tiny compared to the stock ones. Way low profile, which sometimes can have something to do with it. Just to make sure, you really have 195/50-15s on it? Those would be almost three full inches smaller overall than the stock size tires, which yeah, would also mean it lowers your car 1.5" =D. Try tossing some different tires up front and see how that works out.
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