posted by
someone claiming to be Dave in WV
on
Sun Aug 28 01:56 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I'm looking at purchasing a 2000 C70 Convertible. The car is a one-owner with all services completed by the original dealer. It has 68k miles and is a light pressure, with 17" wheels and the sc901 3 CD unit. It has the front center channel, not sure if has dynaudio package or not. Car drives good, with everything functional and tight. The only thing I noticed is the front end has a shimmy [I'm thinking out-of-balance and alignment] that is noticeable above 30mph. I've driven a few other convertible and the majority also had some front end shimmy or looseness. Is this typical of the convertible? I presently own a '01 v70,'98 S70 and a '93 245 and have owned a dozen other Volvos, so I'm used the some of the "undocumented features" of the breed. Don't want to make a bad purchase, but I am not well versed on the convertibles [My wife is having a mid-life crisis about a convertible]. Any advice would be greatly appreciated....
Dave
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posted by
someone claiming to be Juan P.
on
Fri Sep 16 06:20 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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In reply to 2muchTurbos response- So even the final '04 C70 ragtops are still afflicted with the aforementioned problems? My parents are looking around for an '04 LPT to round out our Volvo stable; we already have a '96 850 and '99 S70 (both base models). Both cars are a lot of fun and we consistently use both on very long weekend trips. I wonder how a potential ownership of a C70 convertible will be compared to our fine, basic models.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Sun Sep 18 02:40 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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The car was basically unchanged since '98 but its convertable system did improve to some extent. Its first two years, the tolerances for the convt. system were pretty tight so w/o doing anything, the car would flex slightly and a tech would see up to 12 fault codes that usually has nothing to do with the real problem whenever they'd malfunction. There was a recall on them too but that didn't really solve the issues IMO.
The newer C70s havent YET been as problematic with conv top issues but the other issues listed with that car went unchanged. It's a car to avoid unless you really love convertables and don't mind a few problems. When (not if) a window regulator breaks, they run about $500 each for the part PLUS labor, not a quick or easy job.
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I remember reading something about that deal not working out very well.
Pretty cars IMO, maybe the prettiest Volvos ever built.
As you see from other posts on the thread, the Volvo techs hate to work on 'em.
For my "mid life crisis" car I'm looking for a Carrera 3.2 Cabriolet. At least there isn't awfully much to a Carrera 3.2 that can break, like say a radiator, and the AC is hopeless to begin with.
Good luck!
-BTC
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I love my '99 C70 Convertible. It's a joy to drive. Although it lacks the raw high-end power of our '99 V70R, the light-pressure turbo with the 2.4L provides nice get-up-and-go for city driving. The audio quality with the SC-901 and the full, 13-speaker, 400W Dynaudio package is stunning.
I wasn't crazy about the front-end shimmy, but an upper strut brace from Eurosport Tuning made a world of difference. Also have a set of the IPD sway bars which will make it in when I have the time someday, but driveability and stability with just the one strut brace are already greatly improved.
Volvo offer three choices in suspension stiffnes in the C70. The '99 C70 with the light-pressure turbo engine, had the "Comfort" setting by default, which was too bouncy and wobbly for my comfort. The "Dynamic" and "Low Dynamic" options were the two alternatives.
Personally, three one of the four Volvo models I've owned -- the '90 780T, '97 850, '99 C70, and '99 V70R -- were all too rolly, bouncy, or wobbly for my tastes until I put aftermarker stabilizer bars in them.
Other than that, the only issue I've had with it (lock actuator, passenger door) were fairly minor and common to all 70-series Volvos. Haven't yet been bitten by the ETM problem afflicting all 99-00 models, and am hoping Volvo will step up the plate and recall that part before mine fails.
Is the one you're looking at a good deal? Who knows? You didn't mention what the price is....
-KB
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'99 C70 Conv LPT || '99 V70R AWD || '90 780 Turbo (for sale)
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KB, I am considering the purchase of a '01 C70 convertible with the HPT. Would you happen to know how the suspension was set up on this car by Volvo?
Yesterday, I test drove a '02 convertible with the HPT and was shocked to feel the steering wheel move in my hand (cowl shake?) while driving with the top down at a relatively low speed. Also, the body seemed to flex quite a bit and the car was a handful to drive at 60 and above.
Do you know if the IPD tower strut brace would help with this instability? Also, I have read that the anti sway bars for front and rear can also make the convertible more stable and less of a challenge to drive.
KB, I would appreciate your thoughts or the thoughts of any other Brickboarders on this subject. Thanks, Fred.
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Fred,
I'm not sure I experienced the exact issue you're describing. My frustration was with the incredibly bouncy ride on all four corners -- rocking back and forth like a small boat on bigger waves, and almost swirling around on all fours after a sharp turn.
This could, I suppose, be described as cowl shake, in that it felt like there was a timing disconnect between the steering response and the car's bouncy motion, i.e., car sways to driver-rear, then driver-front, then passenger-front, then passenger-rear, and it felt like the pull on the steering wheel was about 45 to 90 degrees behind where I expected to feel it, given the body sway, at that moment.
I'm honestly a bit surprised that the upper strut brace accomplished as much as it did, though a tuner-nut at work with a customized Prelude at work assured me it would help. There's still a little bit of front-to-back bounce, still, but nothing like it had before. I'm still curious to get the IPD anti-sway bars in, but don't really feel any sense of urgency to do so anymore.
As for suspension options, my info comes from an internal Volvo sales training brochure that I downloaded from the UK Volvo Club. Specifically, at http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/70brochures.shtml
The exact line comes from the tenth PDF down, identified as follows:
C70 Convertible
Volvo Product Training Brochure
2952Kb
Dated 1999
The suspension info appears on page 10:
"CHASSIS
The driving behavior and also the riding comfort is to a great extent dependent of the stiffness and softness of the chassis.
The softer Comfort chassis gives the Volvo C70 Convertible a high degree of riding comfort. The stiffer
Dynamic and Low Dynamic chassis gives a more sporty and distinct roadholding. Comfort is standard with the LPT engine and Dynamic is standard with the HPT engine. Low Dynamic is the stiffest chassis, available only as an option."
I've read elsewhere (probably on volvospeed.com or swedespeed.com, after bringing this up over there) that Volvo's different suspension elements were actually too thin and flexible to do very much.
So, to make a long answer short (way too late for that, huh?), I don't know if I can answer your question. I don't recall the '00 C70 LPT I test drove in Santa Rosa in 2002 feeling as bouncy, but it was on perfectly flat roads. The '99 that I bought this year, on the other hand, I noticed the shake numerous times on 101 South, from Marin to SF, right off the dealer lot.
Still bought it with confidence -- I've never driven a Volvo (except our '99 V70R AWD) that I didn't feel a need to put some beefier suspension into.
-KB
--
'99 C70 Convertible || '99 V70R AWD || '90 780 Turbo (for sale)
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KB, thanks for your prompt response to my questions from your original post. I greatly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
I am going to test drive another '01 HPT convertible today and try to make a comparison with my experience of last Friday.
BTW, do you have a membership to the UK Volvo Club that you referenced in your response? I attempted to access this web site but it appears that it is "Members Only" and it seems that Volvo ownership is not enough to become a member but that an application and fees/dues are required?
Also, do you know Lee Cordner, the President of the VCOA. Lee lives in Marin County and writes a great column for Rolling Magazine. I think, like you, he has at least three Volvos and really knows what he is talking about.
Thanks again for your thoughts and I will let you know what I decide to do about my convertible purchase. I have a feeling that I am going to do this and will not be unhappy. Fred.
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Odd -- I'm not a member of the UK club. I just went to http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/index.php, and navigated via the "Web Site Index. Select from List" menu to the Brochures section, then selected Brochures --> Choose Model --> S/V/C70 Series. (Maybe the site uses some authentication that Safari 2.0.1 simply slips past.)
I don't personally know Lee, but am surprised I haven't run into him (not literally) in Marin. Perhaps we've passed each other on the road. There are almost as many Volvos as Hondas, Mercs, and BMWs in Marin now.
Good luck with the next test drive.
-KB
--
'99 C70 Convertible || '99 V70R AWD || '90 780 Turbo (for sale)
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KB, I test drove another '01 HPT convertible yesterday with interesting results. The car (with the top down) had a lot of vibration in the steering wheel at about 45 MPH and it was hard to hold and control. Then on the freeway after reaching 60 MPH and above, it was rock solid with no wheel tremble, cowl shake or anything relative to flex or vibration.
The salesman where I test drove the car said that they have received several complaints from some of their new car buyers who bought Solara convertibles (This was a Toyota dealer and I believe that the Solara is FWD.) He said that some of his customers installed a tower brace on their cars and away went any vibration or instability in the steering wheel.
I believe that I am going to go ahead with my purchase of the '01 HPT convertible that I have identified and deal with the problem as you have with your '99, hopefully only needing the front tower brace.
If you ever pick up a copy of Rolling magazine you will see Lee's picture and monthly column in the front section of the magazine. He is a Marin County guy and he travels all over in his positon as President of VCOA. He also gets down to Irvine to meet with the Volvo guys in the Premium Group Division of Ford and gets to test drive and report on new products before they hit the market.
Thanks for your help and responses. Fred.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Sun Aug 28 02:39 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Seriously, steer clear of ANY C70 convertable as they're one of Volvos worst cars ever built. You will have costly convertable problems often plus the window regulars (all C70s) are very poorly designed, designed to fail and they're also very costly to replace.
The steering wheel shake is normal, common in all FWD convertables and called "cowl shake" due to design, lack of structural support. If it has Perelli tires, those are known to get flat spots from sitting, not good tires but compared to an S70 or V70, the C70 convertable will always have that front end vibration effect as if there's something loose. That can't be fixed.
I'd highly advise not buying any C70 convertable, especially if you want its top to go down and back up again on occasion w/o costly problems.
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OKAY, I don,t want to upset anyone, but Ive worked for volvo for almost 15 years now,
and I have the privelage of being our dealerships so called c-70 expert.
Car looks good, fun to drive. But as stated by many full of problems
cant get rid of wind noise totally, will vibrate no-dobut, will get water leaks.
window regulaters will fail, very very poor design thanks to the ENGLISH for that wonderful cable drive system with PLASTIC pullys. MORONS.
oh and the first big rain you get thats when your top will get stucI just dont like the cars. HATE TO WORK ON THEM
and the c-70 as everyone knows it now has been DISCONTINUED..
The new convertable will be smaller and look like the new s-40
with a retractable hard top have not yet seen exactly how top works but know its a folding three peice kinda of like mercedies.
Id wait for one of them about mid 2006 I beleive.
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If you check at many Volvo dealers still have '04s on the lot. They don't sell! the car was discontinued in "04. Just say NO I don't want that car!
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What are you talking about...discontinued? They've already designed the '07 and people are raving about it. I don't think Volvo is going to do away with its convertible for some time. Shaking in the front is normal? Once again, what are you guys talking about? It's not normal and with good suspension parts it can and should be fixed (like another poster I would recommend IPD antisway bars and stut brace to really tighten things up, and it will be loads of FUN to drive). There's a large following of these cars. Just check this out if you don't believe me ('97-'06 and beyond): http://forums.swedespeed.com/zeromain?id=3
By the way, the original poster of this thread still hasn't told us the price he is considering. Without that information how is one to know if this car is a good deal or not.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Sun Sep 18 02:29 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Volvo stopped making them, period! '04 was its final year (basically a '98 car that they kept alive too long) and I too have worked in Volvo dealerships for many years. There is NO convertable now made by Volvo. The upcoming retractable hardtop is suppose to come out by next spring but that's rumor and knowing Volvo, is likely to be later than that due to problems.
No Volvo tech wants to work on C70 convertables when it comes to conv. top problems or window regulators, both fairly common.
The vibration is termed "cowl shake" and is a known, uncurable problem with ALL FWD convertables by design due to lack of the roof structure. Volvo tryed to add more structural strength to its windshield area to compensate for that issue BUT they were unable to eliminate the problem completely. Volvo knew of this problem before the car was originally made in '98. You could have driven a then new C70 (right off a delivery truck) and you'ld notice the front suspension, steering wheel shaking compared to any other S/V70. To me and for a car that then sold for $50K, that'd be unacceptable and I'd never own one for that reason in itself, besides the fact that I hate all convertables.
Then Volvo used 17" wheels with Perelli low profile tires which often flat spot easily when the car sits for months (always happened at dealerships as they didn't sell well). Don't ever get close to a pothole with those tires or the wheels are bent in a heartbeat.
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Re: 'The vibration is termed "cowl shake" and is a known, uncurable problem with ALL FWD convertables by design due to lack of the roof structure.'
The part about it being uncurable is just plain not true. Maybe not curable by Volvo directly, but ipduda.com and eurosporttuning.com both offer pretty affordable products which "cure" the issue.
My experience isn't unique. Before I bought mine, I asked a former co-worker, who also drives a '99 C70 Convertible LPT, about handling and stability, and he said it felt like an aluminum sail boat until he put in a pair of IPD stabilizer bars, front and back.
He's also had zero problems with the convertible top in six years -- but like me, he lives in the temperate, practically-constant climate of the SF bay area's south peninsula. It can rain in buckets, but rarely freezes and never sees much in the way of winds.
As for price, I couldn't agree with you more. I think the $40K+ range for a new first-generation C70 is insane. Always liked the car, but that price was simply ludicrous. Our '99 V70R AWD has been so good, however, I don't mind just waiting a few years and finding a good used one to buy for well under half that. Depreciation can be your friend.
Sorry, but some of us have experiences which simply don't support your pessimism. As you yourself wrote, "I hate all convertables" may just say it all.
-KB
--
'99 C70 Convertible || '99 V70R AWD || '90 780 Turbo (for sale)
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Whatever....I did give a link where you can check out these series 2 C70's. They are a reality in Europe already and expected to hit the market over here in late Fall. I personally won't own one either, but the reality is that they are being made.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Mon Sep 19 04:52 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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"They are a reality in Europe already and expected to hit the market over here in late Fall"
http://www.volvocars.us/Showroom/newC70/default.htm
As you can see, it won't be sold here in the US until next spring. That's also not the same car as the older '98-'04 body type which was discontinued.
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