Hi guys, sorry for the long story

I'm having a look on a fully loaded 160K miles '94 turbowagon and I'm "not sure" yet how much this car worth.... the lady "wants" $3K for it

Almost all MILs are on: SRS, ABS, TRACS, CHECK ENGINE with an intermittent flashing arrow (--> PNP switch I beleive)

There's a persistant "clunk" on the left side, I'd guess it's the strut because the control arms, sway bar links and the tie rod ends has been replaced latelly on both sides. The rear shocks are leaking a bit, the front & rears brake discs with pads needs all to be replaced. Also, an overall tune-up is required: plugs, wires, distributor cap, all filters, ATF, coolant, brake fluid ect ect. The cruise control is not working. The lady bought the car in april 2004 w/o service records and owner's manual.

I'm wondering if it's worth to buy that car and invest some money to fix it because the car looks surprisingly quite clean in and out and quite powerfull too !! --> Turbo

I already own two sedan 850s N/A (a '95 & a '96) and I'm doing most the service repairs on them. (a T-belt replacement with the water pump & pulleys, bearing hubs, control arms ect ect.... doesn't scare me AT ALL

Any thoughts/comments are welcome

BTW: I've pulled out "few" DTC's ---> here's the list below: It looks a lot but as you can see, I'd guess that some of them are related to the same problem source.

I'd appreciate if someones could fill the blanks on B1, B2 & B5 and/or give some additionnal details/comments on the other ones.


A1 SOCKET:

313 gear position sensor ?? --> PNP switch ??

322 incorrect gear ratio


A2 SOCKET:

435 Front HO2S slow response

436 Rear HO2S compensation

153 Rear HO2S signal

232 Long term fuel fuel mixture to weak or too rich at idle

315 EVAP system fault

451 Misfire cylinder #1

455 Misfire cylinder #5

542 Misfire more than 1 cylinder

543 Misfire at least 1 cylinder


A3 SOCKET:

141 Faulty brake pedal position sensor

142 Faulty stop light switch

213 LH rear wheel sensor

214 RH rear wheel sensor

444 No power supply to hydraulic modulator valves


B1 SOCKET:

411

414

417


B2 SOCKET:

122


B5 SOCKET:

232



Thx A LOT guys
--
Norm

I signed up here to educate myself about buying a used Volvo, since I'm interested in the safety. My only advice to you is based on my own experience. Within the past week I've seen two comp. Volvos selling in better condition and for less $$ than what you're looking at.

Tomorrow I'm going to look at a 1995, one owner, 'regularly maintained' 850 turbo wagon with 125,000 for $3k. I missed out on a 94 850 sport wagon for $2500 (needed A/C work but otherwise good mech. condition). I live in Los Angeles, so maybe there are more available here? I also have been checking on a daily basis three internet newspaper sources (cars.com, craigslist.com, and edmunds/autotrader.com).

I would skip it and just look for something better to come along. You have the luxury of time I am assuming? And if a car has a ripped seat (you seemed smitten with the perfect interior) I'm guessing it might be cheaper to replace one seat in lieu of all the repairs you may have to make on the car you're looking at now (that is, I'd prioritize a well maintained engine over interior). Just my opinion...obviously I have no experience with souping a car up and what is valuable in that situation.

That said, I'll use this as an opp. to ask people for advice/help. I've been trying to compile information as to what to check when I take a look at the aforementioned car (to see if it's indeed in good basic condition before I take it to a mechanic to check out). For this model so far I have:

1. Check the timing belt was taken care of at 70ishk miles, and water pump at around 110k
2. Oil changed regularly
3. Front engine mounts and crank pully at 80k
4. Check the A/C
5. When test driving warm up the car on the freeway and check the tranny fluid (I'll have to look up how exactly this is done)
6. Check that the transmission/gears all seem to function well

Is there a way for me to check the turbo, aside from actually driving the car?

It sounds kind of unusual..it's an amethyst color!

Any input is welcome. Good luck with the car, Boogie850!!

Saskia

Hi there,

Thx for your advice. I offered a straight & final $2K offer for the car and waiting her feedback tonite but I can tell by her "smile" that she still wants $3K for. It's true, the car looks impressively clean in and out but there's so much repairs needed that it would have been illogical for me to offer more than that. Even at $2K, it's still a roll of a dice.

Beside the Brickboard forum, here's below other web sites that have plenty of information dedicated to the 850s:

http://volvospeed.com/maintence.htm
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com
http://www.geocities.com/ozbrick850
http://forums.swedespeed.com
http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=14

I'm leaving tomorrow for my annual vacations, back sept 6th.

Talk to ya

what do you call a turbo volvo with issues - a whole in the road you throw money into....

i wouldnt touch that with a barge pole!

2 (Two)K + a lot of your time might, with luck, yield something economically sensible. Otherwise, if just the joy of completing the project would thrill you, go for it.

You're to be admired for wanting to have a THIRD 850 and doing all your own work. You must indeed be a busy talented guy. Try to get the price down. Wipe off your tools and get out the check book. Good luck......

yeap, the third one is to replace my Caravan at work, a loooooooot more fun to drive !!! Thx

I picked up a 94 wagon, turbo too, but at 2500, put 1500 into it, but yours sounds like a lot more. If you can get her down to 2k and it is rust free like my TX car, you may be close-----could eat a lot of $$$$'s----

dick

I just started adding up the parts... most of the costs I've listed are within a few bucks of actual prices... you'd do all the work, right? And I've left out the inevitable assortment of bushings, hoses, clamps, filters, bulbs, shipping costs, perhaps some needed tools, etc.

Struts, shocks, and mounts all around $700.00 Bilsteins... OEM take off $250
Springs all around 170.00 OEM... add $150 for hi-perf
Brakes all around 400.00 OEM... add $200 for hi-perf
PNP switch 120.00 OEM
Tune-up parts 200.00 OEM... add $150 for hi-perf
O2 Sensors 220.00 OEM
Timing belt, tensioner, pulley, and idler 225.00 OEM
Same as above, for the serpentine 200.00 OEM
Rebuilt ABS module 130.00 Vic Rocha
Motor mounts, torque arm bushing 100.00 OEM
______
$2465.00

How are the tires, the turbo, and the evaporator? What wheels are on it? You also have to keep in mind the MAF sensor, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, and EGR valve. These may be near the end of their service lives. That could be another $2500.00 or so if you have to go for new parts. If you wanted to go the high performance route, you'd also need to go for a shock tower brace, and sway bars..figure another $500.

If it's REALLY clean, and you're looking for a "project" car.... this might be fun. With 160K on it, most of the things in question would have to be done normally, regardless of who owns the car... previous owner, or potential buyer. You sure could build yourself one hell of a car using this thing as your base. If you had to do absolutely everything, and went the high performance route, including an upgraded ECU and exhaust system, your outlay could easily go as high as $8000.00.

On the other hand, with careful shopping, selected parts, and some TLC, you might get away with spending on the order of $2000.00 and have a very comfortable, surprisingly high performance car to use every day.

Wanna have some fun, got some extra cash kicking around, buy it, but not at 3 grand.... :)
Please keep posting... I'd be curious about what you decide to do.

Marty
'96 855T

Hi Marty,

She finally sold the car for $2,900. It was probably worth at $2,000 but not at this selling price. I just started to hunt another one!
--
Norm

Yeah, keep looking around. For the price she was asking you could even get a '96 or '97 with less repairs. patience is a virtue. I searched over a year until I found the S70 I'm now driving. I finally had to take a road trip to a city 4 hours away and drove 6 S70's before I settled on the right one for me. Just keep your eyes open and you'll find her. For the lady who sold her car at 2900, she got a bargain whether she knows it or not.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon

I'm 100% agree with you, she got a good price at $2,900 but I have to admit that her car was in very good looking shape and of course, a woman is a woman:> apparence is more "credible" than condition !
--
Norm

I'm afraid the person who bought it is in for a few surprises.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon

Same thoughts but I think we'll never know, she sold it to someone outside of the city
--
Ken

How do you know that "she sold it to someone outside of the city" ?
--
Norm

Are you talking about the green wagon that was located on Placita Del Lazo st?
--
Ken

Yeah !?!?!?!?!?, do you know someone living there?
--
Norm

Yes, my sister living 2 blocks away on the same street, I used to check that car when it was for sale, good move that you didn't bought it. whewwwwwww
--
Ken

Hi again Boogie.. glad you came back.

Oh well. I agree that it's most likely best this way. I've never been happy about the outcome of a car purchase if I felt that I had overpaid. Maybe it was just a "mind set"... but it always seemed that I was more sensitive to problems with the car, or just got frustrated more easily. But whatever it was, somehow the joy of ownership was somewhat dulled.

In the 3K range, you will be able to find others, and, hopefully, in better running shape.

When I bought my wagon, it was from its original owner... a suburban housewife in New Jersey, who had heard Volvos were good cars, needed a wagon, went to the local dealer, and bought one out of the showroom. What she got was a black/black turbo wagon with every option except the CD changer and fog lights. She was also singularly unaware of the performance potential of the car. I guess some folks just have too much money.

She asked 3K, but it had a dented driver's side rear door... I got it for 2K, then spent $500 fixing and detailing the body. It cost me over 3K more to completely redo the suspension (including sway bars, struts/shocks, ball joints, etc.), brakes, fuel pump, tires, and a few performance odds and ends.

So you see, I'm into a "bargain" 855T for something around $6000.00, and still have to have the ABS module done, and I'm sure that an evaporator coil looms ahead. That puts my "bargain" at around 7K. And that was starting with a filthy, but otherwise well serviced, good running car.

What I now have is an extremely fast, smooth, great handling vehicle, which absolutely nobody (except the occasional Volvo enthusiast) pays any attention to. My kinda ride!!!

Keep looking... remember that these were expensive cars, and their owners tended to have them properly serviced. Certainly not all, but many. Good ones, in need of a few thousand dollars worth of work are out there... for the original owner, that large a repair tab is what finally causes the car to be sold. But to a discerning buyer... BINGO!!!

Good luck... let the board know if you find one?

Marty
'96 855T

Hi Marty,

I checked out the 2 cars and I immediately discard the 1st one, the gray one--> piece of junk. The 2nd one was a lot more interesting: no DTCs stored but the car need brakes pads & rotors all around, probably the rear calipers. There's a small oil leak between the tranny and the engine: RMS, rear main seal I beleive. The A/C isn't working at all, I'm sure is the g***** evaporator. But the "worst" thing: the car is a N/A not a Turbo.... aaargh. Besides a couple of other minor things, the car is in great shape. I offered $4,200 and waiting the reply from the owner.

Talk to ya.
--
Norm

If you're looking at a rear main seal and an evaporator, plus some odds and ends, you'll be in a non-turbo for a something over $6000. You might be able to come pretty close to that at a dealer, with the benefit of some sort of limited warranty, and perhaps some legal protection.

How many miles are on this one?
Service history?

Think carefully... they're very nice cars, but a very different personality from the turbos. Before you buy a non-turbo, you must drive it, if possible on a highway, to be certain that you'll be happy with the performance. They are smooth, quiet, and handle better than most sedans in their range, but aren't known for burning up any roadways. They also are as safe as blockhouses, and burn whatever you put in the tank.. turbos need premium!!!

Looks like doing your homework is raising as many questions as are being answered...
decisions... decisions... decisions...

Marty
'96 855T

The milleage is 68K and t-belt has been replaced at 60K. The service history is complete and everything has been done on scheduled at the dealer, no doubt on that but my main feeling is that the guy is selling his car because of too much anticipated repairs to be done on it. i,e mucho $$$: A/C evaporator & dryer, brake pads & rotors all around with the rear calipers, Rear Main Seal. ect ect Oh la la that's too much for me because first, it's a non-turbo and second, the guy wants $6K sharp for it. My conclusion is that this car isn't a deal AT ALL and I'll continue to hunt.

Talk to ya
--
Norm

I think that you're making the right choice....

As lovely as the 850's are, for that kind of money, you can almost always find a non-turbo. The turbos are the fascinating ones.

I'm pretty sure (in my own mind) that the "R" models are not the most desirable unless you live in an area with smooth roads, and are using the car for solo enjoyment. The standard turbo's suspension is much more forgiving than the "R"s. And the N/A cars don't offer the "rush" that invariably accompanies the turbos when they spool up.

Don't give up... there's one out there just waiting for your name on the title.

Good luck

Marty
'96 855T

I know about the "R" models, not smooth handling but holy shit they're fast !!

With the increasing price of fuel, may be I'll find someone whos ready to get rid of his turbo (in order to replace it with a little Toyota Echo)

Thx pal
--
Norm

How many miles? Seems a bit high with no turbo and all the repairs unless it's got low miles...just my $.02
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon

I looked at a '96 N/A I saw at a Volvo dealer yesterday....(just out of curiosity)

86,000 miles
One owner... traded it in at the same dealer for an XC
Volvo maintained as per schedule
Michelin all-seasons.. more than 1/2 the tread depth remaining
Deep red metallic... perfect paint
Beige interior.... immaculate (dealer detailed prior to sale)
CD stereo... no changer
no sunroof
leather interior

asked $6500... sold for $6000

I'm scheduled monday for 2 more wagons, both '95s:

The 1st one, 187K gray/gray in a superb condition according to the owner .... and in a very good condition (at my point of view) according to the picture he sent me! with no MILs on or whatesoever and with ALL service records. $4,000

The 2nd one red/black with "only" 68K on the clock apparently in a "showroom" condition. $7,500

Let's talk monday night
--
Norm

I belive your estimate is on the low side. I would definitely assume that you will be rebuilding most of this car. For all practical purposes it's shot. If this much un-maintenance was done, I'd worry about the engine and the tranny too. I know it's been asked but does the A/C work? If not, then that's another $1000 at least. I agree with the other poster....get it down to under $2000 (point out all the things that need done to the owner) and then expect to pay around $3000-$4000 to have it in good shape. For that much money you could probably buy one in good shape, but if you want to do the work to get it just the way you want it, and have the time and $$ then go for it.

Good luck!
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon

Hi Marty,

Well, the turbo seems to respond quite well because the car is a LOOOOOOOOOOT more faster & powerfull than my N/As. Anyway, I'll do a compression test on the engine.

The tires (BF Goodrich 205/55R16) are at approximately at 50% of their lifespan and the mags are the standard ones normally found on the turbo models.

The fuel pump is not noisy at my knowledge but thx for the hint, I'll do a double check on it. BTW: The main problem on the fuel pump relays are crystallized solder joints where the coil wires are connected onto the pcb (from repetitive thermal expansion effects) I used to fix an intermittent stalling problem on wife's car a couple of years ago just by re-soldering all connections on the pcb and that intermittent problem NEVER came back. I have a pic of that relay showing where the problem is located on the pcb for those interested.

I'm suspecting a very small leak in the evaporator core because the compressor is cycling on/off every 5 seconds and the actual owner told me the A/C was a bit better last year but at least it's working a little and it might need only a refrigerant recharge.

How can I check the MAF sensor and the EGR valve ?

I've read sometimes ago that Vic Rocha rebuild only '96 and up ABS module. In the '93 -'95 models, at my knowledge, the ABS module is located INSIDE the modulator pump ass'y... i,e: mucho $$$... YUCK

My goal was to fix that car with quality OEM or aftermarket parts (FCP Groton) for every day usage, I'd like more having a 850 turbowagon for work in instead of my Caravan, a lot more fun to drive.

I'll keep you posted

Sounds like you're leaning toward getting this thing, and starting your project. You're right that the turbo cars are much faster than the N/A's.
The reason I brought up the fuel pump, relay, and EGR valve, was simply that as long as I was going down the list of "usual suspects", I didn't want to leave anyone out.... :)
If there is a slow evaporator leak, whether you want to get into a complete dash removal or not, is your call. Most slow leaks can be accounted for with $10.00 a year worth of R134a. There is a lot of disagreement about anti-leak additives, and I have no comment.
As far as the ABS module goes, the other contributor who mentioned the possibility of wheel sensors, could certainly be correct. It would be worth your time to e-mail Vic Rocha... he responds promptly and professionally.

My wagon is a hoot to drive, and has been known to leave a "what just happened here?" look on many a young face behind the wheel of "modified" Honda. Not that I'd ever engage in informal street racing... no way... never happen... uh-unh.... heh, heh.
Just for the record, I also have 205/55 16's on my car... I've just recently put on a set of Falken Ziex all seasons, and I'm absolutely thrilled with the performance.... particularly in the wet. Smooth and silent. Also, in the event you have come across it, don't pay too much attention to the often repeated "fact" that the 55 section tires will rub in your wheel wells... that advice is accurate, but pertains primarily to the lower "R" suspensions. You'd have to hold the steering against full lock, and then go into motion to get them to touch. The turbo rims, known as "Columbia" rims, are rare here in New York, so I decided to keep mine rather than going to somewhat more (?) attractive 17 inchers with low profile rubber. The turbo rides hard, and the taller sidewalls take all the pain out of the ride.

I used pricing primarily from the FCP Groton site, just to make the research easier. I went through the same exercise for myself, as I decided what to do with a 107,000 mile 96 turbo wagon. Since it now has 113,000 on it, I guess my decision speaks for itself.

Please keep us posted... I'm sure, just by looking at the responses, that there others who will be as interested as me, in seeing how your project progresses, assuming that you decide to go ahead.
Now, get a new tub of Gojo hand cleaner, and get to work!!!

Best of luck

Marty
'96 855T

Marty, I'm planning to offer $2K for her car, not more. There's "a lot" to do but the car looks soooo clean that I'm very tempted to go ahead with it. I'm meeting her tonite

Talk to ya later

Marty, I'm planning to offer $2K for her car, not more. There's "a lot" to do but the car looks soooo clean that I'm very tempted to go ahead with it. I'm meeting her tonite

Talk to ya later

The ABS module should be OK, it is probably the rear sensors out of alignment or dirty. $1500-2000 would be good for this car if the leather seats aren't cracked. You can fix all of the problems yourself. You will need to put on a new timing belt, sounds like it hasn't seen a mechanic in years.
Go for it, fix it, and have fun! It is a great trash hauler!

Klaus
--
98 V70Rawd(108Kmi), 95 854T(88K mi), 75 164E(173K mi)

Hi Klaus,

The leather seats looks "brand new" and the actual & previous and original owners are all womans, that's why the car looks sooooooo clean in and out...... and if they're all like my wife, car maintenance is not something that is "necessary" or "important"....

As for the actual problems, I know that I'm able to fix them all. My main concern is just I dont want that car to become a "money pit" !

This could be the one to buy... If you are looking for an expensive project.