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My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 850 1995

I believe I have finally found Goldilocks' tires. 205/50-16 Michelin Pilot Sports.

When I got the Goodyear GS-D3s, I wished they'd been closer to the weight of the light/fragile Toyos. The Pilot Sports are that compromise, at 20 lbs. They feel better new (full mass) than the GS-D3s (or MXMs) felt after some wear, in terms of how well they mate up with my car's suspension, which requires low unsprung mass for high enough frequency response for the Bilsteins to do their thing, which they are now doing better than ever. I still have very few miles on the tires, so these are very initial driving impressions: Slight sense of vagueness to the steering (nothing serious or even significant; the Toyos were about 10X more vague), great strength with good flexibility (I haven't hammered it yet, but no sense of any "torque steer" which is often really just tire deformation). If the pavement is not smooth, they are noisy.

The Pilot Sports have rim protection (bead offset from sidewall) that the MXMs lacked, but less than the Toyos or especially the Goodyears. The MXMs' sidewalls were more vertical and less bulgey than these, which I think is why the MXMs' ride was thuddier than these Pilot Sports with their bouncier, more vertically flexible (via the more bulging contour's pre-existing greater curvature) sidewalls. So, except for the fact that they're noisy on rough pavement, the Pilot Sports are going to be better touring tires for my car's non-linear suspension than the MXMs were, which is backwards from Michelins' designations. I feel like I'm sensing some sidewall flex (which my car's suspension demands), but no tread squirm (unlike most other tires when new), which is all to the good for this application.

The one other notable physical/geometrical characteristic is that these Pilot Sports are much closer in size to the OEM MXMs than those seriously-oversized GS-D3s, which put nearly 1/2" wider tread pattern on the road (which probably sounds good, and also looked good, except that undoubtedly contributed to my car's inability to go where steered with those accursed Goodyears of same size designation mounted on the original factory wheels).

So my car now feels better than it has in years, and, right now, I'm thinking, "Thank you, Michelin." (And also "Thank you, Discount Tire." They gave me a considerable allowance on those accursed Goodyears they'd sold me.)

Rolling on,

- Dave; '95 854T, 160K mi









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    My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 850 1995

    I now have about 3K miles on the Pilot Sports. They're definitely keepers.

    My initial reactions still stand; I can now add the following:

    They're an excellent grand touring tire based upon good sidewall compliance for a 205/50-16. Also, that very slight sense of vagueness I referred to is sweet and relaxing on a long cruise; noticeably fewer corrections per mile are required than when the steering was razor-sharp with the MXMs, once one becomes accustomed to the difference. But, unlike the Toyo Proxes T1-Ss, the car still responds to steering inputs "right now" (or close enough to not matter except possibly for autocross competition). These are my first Y-speed-rated tires. The sense of smoothness, precision, and calmness at speed, was definitely superior to the W-rated OEM MXMs.

    They have a strange way of tracking through water without hydroplaning, in that most tires which evacuate water well kick up huge rooster tails of water, but these tires do not. It feels more efficient tracking through water than other tires, and also very reassuring.

    The tires might be electrically conductive: the static discharge, which typically mars a rolling 850's AM radio reception (especially on weak stations), was no longer present.

    There was one spot where I hopped off the interstate for a sandwich, and when I hopped back on, it had just been closed for a head-on accident, complete with missing passengers (at night). I found a detour to the next exit (where I had [my half of] the highway literally to myself for 30+ miles), on a gravel road. The tires were alright on it, but clearly they've not been optimized for handling on gravel roads.

    On good pavement, the tires give my car the closest to a "magic carpet" ride it's ever had; on bad pavement their superior ride is even more appreciated, and well worth the moderate increase in tread/road noise compared to the MXMs (though I was reminded 2 or 3 times per thousand miles how rich Ray Dolby became selling noise-reduction systems).

    I've never enjoyed, nor looked forward to, driving this car as much as I do with these tires, and, as such, I cannot help but recommend them very very very highly.

    - Dave; '95 854T, 163K mi









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    My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport V70-XC70 2001

    My V70 T5 came with Pirelli P6's and I liked them well enough to replace when time came at 50K miles.

    I had noticed similar short life span on OEM Michelins my prior 850T5

    Curious as to mileage/ride/etc others get with their Pirelli P6's?








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      My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport V70-XC70 2001

      > I had noticed similar short life span on OEM Michelins my prior 850T5

      Perspectives are relative, but 30K miles on high-performance W-speed-rated tires is not "short".

      There is no free lunch.

      Pirelli makes fine winter performance tires.

      "50K mi high performance tires" sounds like, or is, an oxymoron.

      BTW, some BMW M-cars came OEM's w/Pilot Sports.








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    My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 850 1995

    Hi Dave! Read your post! Reads like Miles' description of wine in the opening scenes to the great film "Sideways." I never knew there was as much to know about rubber as wine. I took your post and drug it off to my desktop for future reference.

    I drive a 97 GLT with Michelin's MXV4 plus,'s, and am very happy with them. They could be a little quieter, though. And last a little longer. Since FWD 850's go through front tires like Grant through Georgia, what are the warranted miles on your Pilots? Toyo's Ultra plus gives you 100K. That's not bad, considering how many sets of Michelins you would go through to achieve that figure at roughly the same price. I'm not a great fan of Toyos, though I've driven on them on various vehicles I've owned. But I just bought a very low mileage 97R wagon and have been debating about what tires to put on it.

    What do you have to say about durability of your Pilots, and how quiet they are? Dick








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      My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 850 1995

      Dick,

      Durability is not an issue (I just got them yesterday).

      But I got over 30K mi on each of the first 2 sets of tires (OEM + repl Michelin MXMs). The MXMs had a treadwear rating of 140 (which they earned at triple-digit temps at triple-digit speeds, when they became very soft and very sticky). The Pilot Sports are rated by the same manufacturer as treadwear 220 (FWIW, which I suspect is not very much).

      The Toyo Proxes T1-S were the mushiest "high performance" tires I've ever felt. I think Toyo lied/bribed to achieve the tires' load rating. (Then I see that they have one now that's load rated higher than every other manufacturer's, and I wonder if they're over-compensating, or if it's really just as strong as all the other manufacturers' tires but Toyo's scale is wacked.) They get a 10 (or 11) on the mushiness scale in my book. (But they do have a use as lowest-mass drag-racing skins.)

      Well these Pilot Sports have more of that 'mushiness' than I expected, but all that I'd hoped for (based upon references to "comfort" in Michelin literature).
      The Toyos were too mushy. These aren't. (But these are still all rather perliminary findings.)

      Klaus,

      The combination of flexibility and strength (which, combined, give a "bounciness" rating), plus [low] mass is perfect for my over-sprung over-damped (but not linearly so; I have Bilsteins) car -- the tire I've been looking for for ~ 100K miles. This is the best the suspension has ever worked in 160K miles. Other tires (except the too-mushy-to-protect-themselves Toyos) gave me a headache from unabsorbed road bumps/heaves, so I wouldn't want to carry on a conversation anyway. So unless the Contis are the same (dynamics) except for quieter tread pattern, I'm not sure I'm interested, though I definitely hear you.

      I also fed my A/C that can of refrigerant I'd had laying around for weeks now. The can got cold, the needle went up a bit (from less than 15 to ~ 20). I put the can in warm water and the needle went up more (~ 30). The can then felt empty, so I was done. I never saw any cycling or pressure swings. The A/C compressor now runs w/o the low pressure switch jumpered, but it wasn't really warm enough today (maybe 60) for me to tell you how icy cold the A/C is now. But it seems to work.

      - Dave; '95 854T, 160K mi









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      My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 850 1995

      Hey Dave,
      I like grip, but I can't stand the noise. Bought a set of ContiExtremes for my wagon and fell in live. Corner real good and very quiet on the concrete interstates. Went from Twin Cities to Colorado Springs and managed to hold normal conversations with the back seaters in Nebraska. Couldn't do that with my 850 Pilots.

      Klaus
      --
      98 V70Rawd(108Kmi), 95 854T(88K mi), 75 164E(173K mi)








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      My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 850 1995

      Bye de bye, twas Sherman who visited Georgia, not Grant.








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        My new tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 850 1995

        Oh so right you are! I am deservedly humbled! Dick







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