I called my Volvo dealer summer asking about a stick shift V70 - because the incentives late in the model year were very good - around $4,000 as I recall. He did a nationwide search and found zero (that's 0) stick shift V70s in the entire country. He said he wasn't too surprised, that he had done a similar search the previous fall and found only a handful of them in the entire country. To get a stick shift with the options you're looking for, from even nationwide inventory, is a real longshot. I think you're looking at a special order or euro delivery. I wouldn't worry too much about service on a base car with stick - they seem to be very reliable if you don't load them up with gadgets.

You may already know this but here is a link to a good Honda Odyssey board: http://www.odyclub.com

We have a NA V70 and recently bought an '04 Ody EX. My wife threw the V70 keys to me like a hot potato and hasn't looked back. This is not to say that the V70 was a bad car, but the Ody is wonderful for transporting 3 kids,ages 2,8, and 13. She absolutely loves it. THere simply isn't enough room in the V70 for 5 passengers to travel comfortably. With the Ody, each kid has their own space and a dvd player (I bought laptop DVDs for a fraction of the cost of a built-in unit). The '04 is the second generation Ody. From what I've read, the '05 Ody has a much quieter ride and more ammenities( 2nd row windows roll down, 3rd seat is 60/40 split, etc.) We bought the '04 because the price was an absolute steal. The Ody also has plenty of power and handles much better than the Sienna or Chrysler. My wife said the Ody's handling was much closer to that of the V70 than the other minivans. Take one for a drive, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck

Thanks for the information. Getting the codes isn’t that big of a deal, OBDII readers are common, but it is a big deal about having to go to the dealer to have anything fixed, not to mention having the car shut down at random because of residue buildup is of concern.

Like I said before, it’ll be a year or so before I buy. Although I’m sure that the V70 would be more comfortable and have better performance over the Odyssey, I’ve got to be honest, sounds like Volvo has slipped since Ford has taken over.

I bought a basic stripped V70 manual in 2001. The car is far more comfortable and powerful than the 245 that it replaced, and so far, has not required a lot of expensive maintenance. Nearly 85K miles. Brakes, suspension, and most engine component replacement can be done by a reasonably skilled owner. So far I have not had any of the dreaded VADIS troubles, but my model has manual climate control, and the absolute minimum in optional luxury garbage.

The Honda makes the most sense, but if it was me I still wouldn't do it.
--
01 V70 2.4 M5 and a Mini

"I would also want 3rd row of seats, integrated booster seats, and either the premium package, or just leather seats and a moonroof."

You obviously have children, therefore get an Odyssey. The third row seat in a V70 won't work. The Honda gets great gas milage, you can get TV for the kids which is a Godsend on trips. It is reliable and with 240 hp, it is fast enough.

The StLouis Volvo dealers reputation is very good, had my 245 serviced there and was very pleased. Stay away from Chicago. There should be a Honda dealership in Springfield. If you change your own oil and service the brakes on the Honda you will like the minivan. Besides, you should get around 27mpg on the highway.

Do your kids and wife a favor and get them the car they need.

Klaus

--
98 V70Rawd(101Kmi), 95 854T(85K mi), 75 164E(173K mi)

I currently have a '93 Volvo 945T and a '99 Honda Accord. I plan on buying a new car in about a year and have pretty much narrowed it down to a new V70 or a new Honda Odyssey.

If you buy the base V70 Volvo, I think you'll be disappointed. I never really liked the base-model dealer service loaners I had. Without the turbo, the V70 is a slug, even with the manual transmission. For '05, the T5 isn't available with the manual. That marketing strategy on the part of Volvo moves the manual transmission enthusiasts up market to the 300HP V70R with a typical transaction price anywhere between the very high $30s and the high $40s.

My wife drives an Odyssey, and I also drive an Acura (with 6-speed manual) in addition to my Volvo. I was considering a nice used 81k V70T5 automatic for my daughter. Then I looked through my maintenance receipt folders for the Volvo, Odyssey and Acura and decided I'd need to get my head examined.

If you can control yourself with the options and buy the basic ($27k, 255HP) Odyssey EX, it's an awful lot of car for the money.

-BTC

'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 155k mi, front IPD stabilizer bar, rear factory HD bar, Bilstein HD, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, e-codes, V-1, Mobil-1 since new, Michelin Arctic Alpins

Go with the Honda Odyssey. Its a great van, much more practical than the Volvo, handles well, is powerful, and has great resale value. Resale value on the Volvo is terrible.

We have owned seven Volvos since 1978 including a 1978 242gt, a 1983 240 DL wagon (auto) a 1986 240 DL wagon (manual), a 1964 P1800s, a 1988 760 Turbo Wagon (auto), and two 1998 V70 T5's (autos). The older Volvos were rock solid, dependable, easy to maintain, and lasted forever. I just sold the p1800, and I'm still driving the T5-its a great car, but probably my last volvo.

My last two car purchases were a 2001 Honda Odyssey (Navi), and a 2003 Honda Civic EX. The Honda Odyssey has been great, no problems, only routine maintenance, easy to work on, pleasure to drive, great road trip car.

When the T5 dies, I'll probably go with another Honda or Acura product.

Working on your own late model Volvo (1999 and newer) is nearly impossible without the VADIS computer equipment. Volvo designs them this way for the very purpose of preventing you from doing your own maintenance work. Beyond changing oil or filters or plugs, you are screwed and must use the dealer service department which is big bucks. You can't program a remote, or even add a cd changer without the Vadis system, plus I am sure thare are lots of other "surprises" you will find you can't do without the VADIS. I purchased an obdII reader which has helped me limp along with most problems and repairs on my V70T5, and knock on wood, the car is fairly dependable at 105,000 miles. I only had to experience the local dealer's service department once and have never been back. The local Volvo dealer won't even write up a work order unless you pay them to "diagnose" the car first, even if you know what is wrong. Parts are not cheap, although you can get some of them on line for less than "list". IPD is not cheap either, as you may know.

The electrical problems with the V70's I have owned are minor, no big deal, at least for me. Volvo issued a recall for the turn signal bulb sockets, which have now been changed, which was the only problem I encountered on the V70 electrical wise. I've also replaced the ABS module, the top engine mount, and a few vacuum elbows and vacuum lines and that's about it. I've also chipped my car with the upsolute chip-its very fast.

If you are used to the Honda, you are going to be very disappointed in the maintenance needs and costs of the Volvo.

Get yourself the Odyssey-you can't go wrong. It's a great van.

Current Volvos are very expensive to maintain. Cost of the parts is high and much of the work must be done by the dealer.

Beginning in '99, Volvo went to a computerized engine control system called VADIS ("Volvo Aftersale Diagnostic and Information System.") Only Volvo dealers and the rare independent that have paid the necessary fees can do a lot of the work for these cars.

I'd like to give you an example. '99 and newer Volvos have an onboard computer that shuts the engine down whenever the computer detects residue build-up in something called the throttle body. (The throttle body is an opening through which air feeds into the intake manifold.) Residue builds up sufficiently over 50,000+ mi. for the engine to be shut off. If you don't plan to drive your car more than 50,000 mi. then this won't be a problem.

If the engine shuts down outside of major urban areas where Volvo has a dealer that can repair the car, then you have a long tow.

When you finally get the Volvo back to the dealer, the cost of repair is $950-1,200.

I went into the dealer that sold us our XC and asked the Service Rep. if there was any way to do preventative maintenance to avoid the defect in the future. He said "It's electronic. They fail." and just shrugged his shoulders. Repeated my question several times and he just kept giving me the same inadequate response. Obviously I wasn't happy.

I really don't like the idea of being stranded again, the possibility of a long tow back to a dealer and the idea of spending $950-1,200. every 50,000 mi. at the dealer to get the engine going.

The current Volvos will not allow a "do-it-yourselfer" to do much, if anything. I called Volvo to ask if I could get the failure codes for when our XC could only be serviced by the dealer. The Volvo "Customer Care" representative refused to tell me! They apparently want the car taken to a Volvo dealer whenever something needs to be done. Ugh!

If you want to work on your car yourself, look at another brand.

Will try to answer a few of your questions from my perspective.

Honda Odyssy is a great Van, but I don't think you can get this in a manual tranny. I have a V70T5 in a manual tranny and a S70 99' in a manual tranny, both are superb.

Not sure about the rebate. If I was you, I would look on ebay or other dealers in the US and get a T5 with a manual with the extended Volvo Warranty. I bought a 2001 T5 last year with a manual tranny with 28,000 miles on it for 16,000. Yes, $16,000. THis included a full extended warranty from Volvo that covers EVERYTHING. It is perfect. I found it in Arizona and apparantly it was tough to sell there.

There is a Hayes manual but it sucks. Working on them is relatively easy. Brakes, timing belts, belts, hoses etc. are all easy to work on. Electrically there is alot there, but knock on wood I have had good luck. People that note that they have spent over 1000 dollars a year seems high, but depending on the mileage and things that go could be right on. These cars are not Honda's in terms of parts prices etc. (Needless to say I love these cars and would never buy anything else!!!)

Not sure how many they sell in the U.S. but in NH it seems every other car is a VOlvo. They are hugely popular in NH, MAine and VT. (Perhaps because it is like sweden) There are so many old 240s and 740s on the road it is amazing. Now there are a TON of 850's on the road. These cars hold up to the cold and shitty roads. and jsut go and go and go.


FCP Grotton, IPD and others sell parts cheap. I do most of my own work, belts, oil changes, brakes, struts etc. (Would replace a clutch if I had a lift, but I don't)

Go with the Volvo, it is a great car and seriously look into the eBay option. If you do your homework, (Dealer has good feedback) and you get the extended Volvo Warranty, you will get a great great deal. I don't think I would ever buy a new Volvo again. You can get too good of a deal used and get pretty much what you want. nate1725@hotmail.com