Was almost killed yesterday when ETS/Check engine lights came on, lost gas power on the interstate, and coasted to a dead stop. Engine wouldn't even turn over after that. Had it towed, have to rent a car, and I am hopping mad. I have a V70, year 2000, 78K. I do not expect this from Volvo. Bought the car used last year. Dealer's service dept. was not open yesterday (A SATURDAY!!!!), so I will be on the phone fist thing. I mean, the car just sputtered and died. I almost did too, not to mention the traffic jam I created. What the heck is going on? Thanks for any thoughts. Kelley

Volvo does so few recalls, but I do agree with you; the items that fail, that compromise your safety, should be taken care of by Volvo. When we first opened the shop, the Volvo warranty on safety features was much more impressive. I was very dismayed when I told a customer not to worry about the cost of their seatbelt catch because Volvo had a ten year warranty on all safety features. I then learned that no longer applied. I picked up the cost of the seatbelt catch. What was I supposed to do? Tell her that I was sorry that she couldn't afford it; I'd explain my books to her children when the accident left her disabled?

In Volvo's defense, I do not believe the total failure of the ETS was expected. The following is word for word from the Volvo Tech Training Manual regarding the Electronic Throttle Module:

"Both potentiometers are supplied with 5 V and are installed in each end of the throttle spindle. For safety reasons it has been decided to use two potentiometers which each send the same throttle position signal to the electronic throttle module. With the throttle closed the signal is .5V and at Wide Open Throttle approximately 4.5V. If one of the potentiometer signals is mssing, the ETM can still determine throttle position using the second signal and the car can still drive normally."

So, truly, the intention was, and will always be "safety". Anytime something new is developed, there will be glitches in the system, and no, I don't think someone who purchased a Volvo product, should be left holding an empty piggy bank when the reality falls short of the dream. You purchased a Volvo because you believe in their lengthy, proven, and highly regarded track record. I think it would be more beneficial to broach the subject from this angle. Defend Volvo as the good guys and make them want to live up to their reputation. Don't piss them off by calling them the bad guys...they're going to prove you right either way.

Chris
VolTech

Yes, Volvo has safety in mind with everything.. but also price. Come on, Volvo is a business like any other. Cost benefit analysis is a way of life. I agree that a Volvo is probably one of the safer cars to be in when involved in a wreck... but their customer service is lacking.

Look at all the 1980s Volvos that had wiring harness problems. Some people have even had their cars catch fire because of shorted out wiring. And what does Volvo do? Their discount price is still nearly $500 for some of the harnesses.

While showing them as the bad guys is obviously a tactic that didn't work with Ford, I see no problem with trying to shame Volvo into fixing a problem.

File a complaint with the NTHSA, call your local news station's consumer advocate, contact your state attorney general, etc. Get this problem the publicity it deserves, and maybe Volvo won't try to continue to coast on brand loyalty.

--
alex

'89 765T, 173,0xx mi

I'd hazard a guess and say that all 80's vintage European cars had the same wiring harness problems, because they all purchased wiring from Lucas. Now anyone who has ever owned a British car can tell you all about Lucas, the Prince of Darkness. The reason the British drink their beer warm? Lucas designed refrigerators as well. My Dad owns a British Automobile shop; I grew up in that shop; I've heard them all. He told me if I ever wanted a Jag, I was to insert a needle into my temple until the feeling went away. Margaret Thatcher threw Lucas to the winds or the wolves (whichever cliche you've prefer) in 1989, giving them no more government contracts. They suddenly had to come up with a non-inferior product. Further, and I didn't know about this (several customers told me) Volvo actually replaced the wiring harnesses under "recall" on 1983 and 1984 240's (the most problematic harness).

I wasn't saying in my previous post, or in this post, that Volvo is perfect; I wasn't saying that they didn't need to be held accountable; I wasn't saying that anyone's anger wasn't justified. I was simply "clarifying" Volvo's intent with the new system; and "suggesting" that honey be used intstead of vinegar.

Further, if vinegar didn't work on Ford...just who do you think is the voice behind the curtain? We're not in Sweden anymore...

Chris

Alex,

I did file with NTHSA and have also called some national newspapers (Wall Street Journal, USA Today, New York Times, Washington Post) to see if I can get a reporter to bite on a story. Have also contacted Ohio AG's office, who said they couldn't really help me but would register the complaint. Will pursue. Agree with you. Kelley

You need a new throttle body/sensor unit to the tune of $1000.

Life was simpler in the good old days when the throttle was open by a manual cable when you pressed the accelerator, none of this ON THE FLY electronic throttle.

--
'88 240, '92 745, '98 v70 John, Tampa Bay

Thanks John. I can't wait to give Volvo and the dealer a piece of my mind. This was a very serious issue..I also had my daughter in the car. I thank God for the good Samaritans who pushed me off the exit ramp into an empty parking lot. As I waited an hour for the tow truc, the engine did turn over and the car started...too bad it wouldn't at the end of the exit ramp where 20 cars piled up trying to get around me. Aaaagh! One of the reasons I bought a Volvo was reliability. Guess the joke's on me. Bought used, but still under warranty so hope that $1,000 is covered. Have had the car just 10 months. CEL has been on twice, found nothing. Turn signal and one window stopped working, trunk latch broke, rear taillight went out, etc. I am begining to think I have made the dumbest mistake of my life with this car. Regsrdless, thanks for your thoughts.

This is a common problem on 99- Volvos. Its a matter of time before someone ends up being killed. Mine failed on my 99T5 on the motorway in the UK and like yours the car more or less coasted to a stop. 10 minutes on hte hard shoulder and it restarted and went for about 20 miles before doing it again... and again... and again...
A full clean of the TCM sorted the problem for the next 15k miles but like a bad penny back it came. This time it came back while on a back road and passing a truck - fortunately there was nothing coming! I then finally had the TCM replaced (tried to clean it again (see my details on http://www.rally-photos.co.uk/volvo/tcm if you are brave!) but it wasn't having it). When I spoke to the parts guy he said they have lots of these fail (and in particular the police seem to burn them out with monotonous regularity - this is the UK and they use V70T5s for pursuit!). They even keep 3 in stock at the Sheffield dealer! So this is obviously not an unknown issue to Volvo...
Incidentally, someone from Volvo (192.138.116.163 - httppxgot2.it.volvo.com) has also looked at my website to see how to clean the TCM! Since this page on my website is not searchable by any search engine and has no external links that can only mean Volvo personnel monitor this forum... So come on Volvo. This is a serious safety issue! Come clean and do something about it!

Perhaps you should inform visitors of your page that you will peek at their IPs in your log, and may publish them in any strange conspiracy theory you have...
So come on Alistair. This is a serious privacy issue! Come clean and do something about it!

But thank you again for the pics. It will come handy if I get the same problem.

And I can assure you that the blue suited special agents we have in the basement here at Volvo will not seek you up and silence you.

It seems to me that any website owner will monitor webpage access and associated demographics. And as for publishing them, well it is of interest to the group why not?

Ok I know it was tongue in cheek but there is a serious side to this too. Privacy is important and the information displyed was not enough to identify an individual so no harm done. If it had been it wouldn't have been published...

Alastair

Alastair,

that's scary, that Big Brother(in this case Volvo) is monitoring these chat boards.

It will take a few deaths from a failed ABS or ETS module, before the gov gets involved and forces volvo to do right by us.

Cheers
--
'92 740, '98 v70 John, Tampa Bay

Why is it scarey that a manufaturer would monitor a website discussion
group? I'd welcome it.

Many computer company employees montior and answer questions about
their produucts on many of the News groups (and have for years). This
is typically just an employee that shares a common interest -- not a
corporate decision to help or monitor, etc. In some cases the
employee can bring an issue up with management and can get something
done about it (and I've seen that happen in companies where I have worked).

Ray it is scary to me if they monitor these borads anonymously. They are welcome to intoduce themselves and state that they are monitoring these boards to come with ideas to come with a better quality product. I would love them to do so, BUT they don't, bec they are sneaky.

What has volvo done about the common ABS module failures in 850/70 series models, NOTHING. And they are well aware of the problems, as dealerships have extra modules on hand.

Now I am been reading about ETS module failures in '99 and newer volvos. Man what a shame on volvo. Both the ABS and ETS modules have to do with safety. Whatever happened about volvos being the SAFEST CAR BUILT. Nahhh

Cheers.
--
'88 240, '92 745, '98 v70 John, Tampa Bay

I work at Volvo Torslanda Sweden. We are more than 20 000 employess. I was looking at mr Alistairs page (Thank you by the way. Exellent stuff!), and it was probably my address he saw. I sometimes check into this group as a PRIVATE Volvo owner and hobby mechanic. I have a regular desk job not related to car tech.

I've never heard that Volvo tries to censor or monitors anything on the web. And really how would it be possible that Volvo makes a webpage non searchable!? But then again I might also be a part of this conspiracy! And you americans never went to the moon, and Elvis lives :-)

I have heard that Volvo have claimed URL's with the name Volvo in them, like Volvospeed etc. But you have to consider that an owner of a trademark is obliged by law to protect it. If you dont you can lose your rights to it.

About the throttle issue I have about as many clues as anyone else here. I own a 99 so I'm concerned too :-( Have not had any problems so far however...

I think one should keep in mind that things wear out and stuff happens. A car engine today is far more reliable and durable than it was some years ago. But on the other hand they are more complicated and more expensive to fix aswell.

If a car has a part that is a little below quality, and is not related to primary safety (like brakes, steering, airbags etc), most carmakers will not do a recall. Sad but true.

Hi,

I suspect it probably wasn't you I picked out but if it was I hope it didn't cause any grief. As I stated earlier the IP address is insufficient to identify an individual.

The 'non searchable page' thing seems to be misunderstood. I have not submitted that page to any search engines, therefore it has not been searched by any web crawlers and therefore will not show in any web searches. Its not a conspiracy, just the way things are.... Volvo have nothing to do with the page at all other than being the cause of the content :-)....

Hopefully you will have more success with the TCM than the rest of us... and you are right, cars are more reliable now than ever before. Anyone want to hazard a guess what percentage of 1960's cars would drive all day, every day, producing 200+bhp for over a hundred thousand miles? Valid point.

Thanks for your comments....

Alastair

Perhaps where you work in that assembly plant in Sweden, there is a suggestion box.

Place a suggestion in that box, as an employee/volvo owner, and tell them that we volvo owners, bought our volvos because we believed it is the SAFEST CAR BUILT, but apparently that slogan is dead.
Tell them to come clean and recall all 850/70 series with the ABS module failure, and to recall the ones with the ETS module failure as well. Both of these items are very SAFETY related, but volvo doesn't feel they are. Perhaps a few deaths and subsequent lawsuits will open their eyes.

Cheers fellow volvo owner
--
'88 240, '92 745, '98 v70 John, Tampa Bay

JDA2000:

See post way below in response to ChrissiJ. Spoke to Volvo today; no avail. I have registered a complaint with the Highway Safety Administration and will continue to pursue other avenues. My issue is over, it's other people I care about and it's the fact they're denying there is a problem. That doesn't sit well with me. However, my issue is not completely over. Got the car back today from some sheepish-looking service managers, but I'm terrified to drive it!

Kelley

Hi Kelley,

After I finally replaced my TCM my car hasn't missed a beat. I was a bit hesitant at first too but really, it goes better now than it has for ages. And that nasty 'stumble', hesitation' or whatever you want to call it when on cruise has gone too. Get out and enjoy the car. I'm sure it will be fine.

Alastair

Kelley,

I've read that the replacement electronic throttle units hold much better than the original unit. So your car should be OK at least for the next 75k miles.

Don't get rid of the car for the wrong reason, the ETS is fixed, and if you have an extended warranty you're covered for other problems.

Enjoy the car, its a great car.

Cheers
--
'88 240, '92 745, '98 v70 John, Tampa Bay

Threatening message about my almost being killed Saturday left on dealer's voice mail put me first in line for service this morning. Anyway, yep, it's the ETS module. Dealer didn't give a hoot about my safety issue...told me I was getting a good deal because the part was $500, not to mention labor, and that they were going to fix a climate control problem they found for free. I would only be out $50 because of my extended warranty. He really didn't understand why I was so upset about almost being killed -- after all, it was only going to cost me $50. And, the warranty people would rebate the cost of my rental car. HELLO! It's a SAFETY ISSUE.

I plan to pursue this with Volvo corporate, the consumer affairs complaint Web site I saw listed somewhere in this forum, and with anyone else who will listen. This is a real safety issue and I tend to be rabid about companies who screw people, so here I come Volvo. Hope you're reading.

Alastair and John, thanks for your replies.

Kelley,

I am glad you're OK and only out $50, but the safety issue, the MAIN issue, remains.

Do complaint about your problem. Also go to the Federal Highway Safety and transportation Agency and report a complaint. I did it myself a few months ago, about the ABS module failure.

Hope more fellow volvo owners start complaining to the gov agencies about these safety issues and hopefully that would lead to recalls from volvo..
--
'88 240, '92 745, '98 v70 John, Tampa Bay

Volvo does so few recalls, but I do agree with you; the items that fail, that compromise your safety, should be taken care of by Volvo. When we first opened the shop, the Volvo warranty on safety features was much more impressive. I was very dismayed when I told a customer not to worry about the cost of their seatbelt catch because Volvo had a ten year warranty on all safety features. I then learned that no longer applied. I picked up the cost of the seatbelt catch. What was I supposed to do? Tell her that I was sorry that she couldn't afford it; I'd explain my books to her children when the accident left her disabled?

In Volvo's defense, I do not believe the total failure of the ETS was expected. The following is word for word from the Volvo Tech Training Manual regarding the Electronic Throttle Module:

"Both potentiometers are supplied with 5 V and are installed in each end of the throttle spindle. For safety reasons it has been decided to use two potentiometers which each send the same throttle position signal to the electronic throttle module. With the throttle closed the signal is .5V and at Wide Open Throttle approximately 4.5V. If one of the potentiometer signals is mssing, the ETM can still determine throttle position using the second signal and the car can still drive normally."

So, truly, the intention was, and will always be "safety". Anytime something new is developed, there will be glitches in the system, and no, I don't think someone who purchased a Volvo product, should be left holding an empty piggy bank when the reality falls short of the dream. You purchased a Volvo because you believe in their lengthy, proven, and highly regarded track record. I think it would be more beneficial to broach the subject from this angle. Defend Volvo as the good guys and make them want to live up to their reputation. Don't piss them off by calling them the bad guys...they're going to prove you right either way.

ChrissiJ:

I am the one who started all this! Regardless, I spoke to someone from Volvo in NJ today, someone from Victor Dorrian's office, whoever that is.

She was sympathetic, but insists that Volvo monitors problems and dealer records consistently and constantly, and there is nothing that shows them the ETS issue is a problem.

I asked them to buy my car back. They refused. She did offer that I could call her the next time my ETS light goes on and I am forced off the highway and stopped dead in the middle of traffic in a really bad neighborhood. Thanks, that will help.

I appreciate your comments and did use the safety, reputation and caring card with her, but she, nor my dealer cared. I did not rant and rave as I wanted to. However, this is a huge safety issue that Volvo needs to deal with. I asked Pat in New Jersey what they were planning to do. Nothing, she said.

Thanks for all posts. Picked the car up today from the dealer, $50 poorer because of extended warranty, but at least I'm alive.

Kelley

Kelley,

glad you got your car back for just $50.

It's a disgrace, that the lady you talked to at the dealership in NJ said that there is nothing to show there is a problem with the ETS modules or the ABS modules for that matter.

I have been hanging around this board for more than a year, and from the posts here, I have learned that most volvo dealerships around the country have extra ABS and ETS modules on hand, because of the known high failure rate. They even diagnose over the phone and tell you to bring the vehicle in for a module swap.

This is a great cash cow for the dealers, they even stall you when the car is under warranty, and people complain about ABS/ETS light on intermittently, they seem to be unable to diagnose what's wrong with the car. I guess volvo doesn't reimburse them much for it under warranty.

Out of warranty is a different story, the profit margin is great and they just swap the modules, EASY MONEY.

Take care girl, and BE SAFE
--
'88 240, '92 745, '98 v70 John, Tampa Bay

John,

Wow, you know this company! My ETS light came on twice before and you were right, they (my dealership in Columbus, Ohio) found nothing wrong. Now THAT really does make me wonder!!!

The people I talked to today were not from a dealership. I had requested via the Volvo Web site customer service center to have the president of the company call me (!). They wrote back and said someone from the headquarters would call. The person I talked to was Pat Sackus (sp?), from "Victor Dorrian's" office. Don't know who he is. She was in New Jersey. Maybe she was someone from their PR firm! I was too focused on the issue to ask. This is BS. I'll get someone to listen to me!

Thanks for your kind advice. I'll just drive vigilantly, which will be hard after zipping around in a snappy, light, new Mitsubishi rental car the last few days! Man, my Volvo now feels like a Humvee!

Kelley