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I just bought a 98 S70 T5-P, and immediately ordered the side marker light kit. I got the kit, and after connecting one of the wires from the side marker light to the hot side of the front signal light (thanks to Brickboard for telling me how), and the other wire to ground (I don't want the side markers on when the park/driving lights are on), my signal lights went on the fritz. First, they flashed intermittently (normal speed, then fast, then back to normal) and now the signal lights don't work at all (steady light, no flash).
I figured it must be the flasher unit. Thanks again to Brickboard, I removed the SC-816 stereo unit and located the flasher (signal/emergency combo flasher). I tapped it a few times and got the signal lights working again, but as above normal speed, then fast, then back to normal, etc.
My unprofessional diagnosis is that for some reason the side marker lights seem to be putting too much strain on the flasher. Do I need a new, more heavy duty flasher?
This is my first post and any immediate help would be extremely appreciated, as I have to drive my beauty of a car w/o turn signals.
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posted by
someone claiming to be n0v8or
on
Wed May 7 06:27 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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The "hot" front signal wires should have been green on one side, green with black stripe on the other. Assuming your connections are correct, do the signals return to normal operation if you remove the bulbs from the new marker lamp assemblies (you can just remove one and test that side)?
If yes, it is likely that the flasher unit depends on lamp current to set the "on" and "off" times. If the marker lamp bulbs are 21 Watts (same as brake and signal lamp bulbs), your flasher current increased from 3.2 amps to 4.8 amps.
There may be a "Europe market" flasher designed for 3 bulbs (plus the instrument panel indicator), but even if available, could be hard to find in North America.
An alternate solution is to use 2 small 12V automotive relays (US$3 each at Wal Mart), with the coils connected in parallel with the signal lamps, and the contacts wired between the marker lamps and a 12V source (you could use the fused auxiliary lamp feed in the engine compartment). If you need a wiring schematic, I can send you one. The relays have a current consumption of only 0.15Amp, 10X smaller than a bulb. So the flasher impact will be negligible.
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Thanks for the advice n0v8or.
1) I double-checked the wiring against instructions from IPD: on the driver's side the hot front turn signal wire is green, and on the passenger's side it is green/blue. The ground on both is obviously black. I also double-checked the blue splice connectors that came with the kit. So the connections are okay.
2) As you suggested, I removed one of the marker bulbs to see if that returned the turn signal on that side to normal operation. It did not. The marker bulbs are 5W so they must not draw that much current (but maybe enough to knock out the flasher relay). So I may go with your alternate solution to really cut the load on the flasher relay. Could you send me the schematic just in case?
3) Yesterday, my local Volvo mechanic told me something similar to what you said. The turn signal circuit on North American 98 S70's cannot handle the side turn signals' extra load. He suggested that a European flasher relay would do the trick, but difficult to get a hold of. He also said that the 99 S70's might have a heavy duty flasher relay. This is a rather expensive option since the relay runs at least 60 bucks, which is making this a costly endeavor: $60 for the side marker kit + $60 for the relay +???.
Anyway, any other suggestions/comments would be appreciated.
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posted by
someone claiming to be n0v8or
on
Thu May 8 08:23 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Your analysis results are helpful, but also raise more questions than answers, I'm afraid.
First, you are right that the wire color is green-blue, not green-black. I forgot Volvo uses the abbreviation BL for blue and SB for black on their wiring diagrams.
Given that normal flasher operation is NOT restored when a marker bulb is removed; I see 2 possibilities:
(1) There has been some damage to the flasher unit; I recall you reported that tapping it started the signals working again. Perhaps there is a circuit breaker or broken wire within the flasher.
(2) There is a low resistance to ground associated with the marker socket assembly. I have been assuming it has a plastic housing so cannot provide a conductive path to the chassis when mounted. However, if mounting the lamp creates a connection to the fender before any wires are connected, connecting the outer socket wire to the regular signal lamp could establish a high current path when the signal tries to turn on. This could in turn cause a very fast blink rate until something else failed. You can test this hypothesis by checking if the marker lamp is also ON when the signals are on steady (which I think is your present failure mode). If there is a "stray" current path bypassing (shorting) the marker lamp assembly, it will be dim or off when the signal lamps on that side are on.
Adding a 5W bulb might increase the flash rate, but I would be surprised if it could cause the drastic results you experienced. High flash rates are generally caused by high lamp current, while steady (no flash) conditions are usually associated with a bad (open) bulb, therefore low lamp current.
If you can restore normal operation without the marker lamps connected, and there is no short circuit, then the relay approach I mentioned will be the lowest cost solution.
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Thanks once again for the advice, n0v8or.
I'm not completely sure if I understand your no. (2) hypothesis. I can tell you though that the marker socket housing is 100% plastic so it must not conduct. And you're right, the marker lamp is also on when the signals are on steady is the present failure mode. Do you think it would make a difference if I connected the ground from the side marker harness directly to the battery ground?
I disconnected the marker lamps to try to restore normal operating mode, but to no avail. The turn signals are on steady.
Do you think the following scenario is logical?
Is it possible that when I originally connected the side markers that I somehow partially blew the flasher unit, resulting in a high flash rate. Then, by tapping the flasher unit, I may have finished it off, resulting in the signals staying on steady??
I didn't disconnect the battery at first installation and may have inadvertently shorted out the side turn assembly, sending a surge to the flasher unit. However, I have my doubts about this because I've triple-checked fuses 13 & 27 and both have not blown.
Can you think of any way to test the flasher unit? I'm at the verge of buying a new unit, but I'm afraid that it may blow too with the side markers connected.
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posted by
someone claiming to be n0v8or
on
Sat May 10 14:44 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Hypothesis (2)does not apply if the marker lamp housing is entirely plastic. It should not matter which of the 2 wires from the housing you connect to ground. Had it been metal, then it might have made a difference.
I have a hard time accepting that the extra 5W was enough to damage the flasher. Normally it operates 2-21W bulbs plus an indicator on the instrument panel. In Hazard mode, it has to operate 4-21W bulbs plus 2 indicators. It is possible, I suppose, that the drawing of the flasher internal circuit in the factory manual is incorrect.
What happens if you try to operate the Hazard flashers. Do all 6 (3 on each side) bulbs now stay on steady? To test the flasher, you would have to replicate all of the loads and switches, which is no different than trying it in the car.
Before concluding that the flasher is bad, make sure all 3 bulbs are on steady when you operate each (L and R)turn signal. The '98 S70s have a chronic problem with front sockets that make bad connection. Mine were replaced faithfully once a year under warranty. When the socket failed, the front turn signal lamp would not light, and the rear (and panel indicator) would be on steady.
There is no need to try a different ground. If there was a ground problem, the marker lamps would not light. Are the "back-up" (reversing) lamps and momentary high beam ("flash to pass") functions working OK? These also operate from fuses 13 and 37. A fuse can look good and be open.
A new flasher (or disecting the old one) is the logical next step. If worried about a repeat of the original scenario, take the bulbs out of the marker lamps.
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The hazard flashers don't work at all anymore.
And, the only way to signal is to move the turn signal arm up and down manually. I checked and all three bulbs come on when activate the turn signal arm. The behavior is the same for L & R signals. In other words, the flasher unit can still make the turn signals/side markers flash, but only manually??
An interesting note: the side markers and turn signals still flash once when I activate the alarm w/ the keyless entry button.
I found out that my S70 did have the socket recall done.
I know for sure that that back-up lamps are working. I'll check the momentary high-beams.
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posted by
someone claiming to be n0v8or
on
Mon May 12 14:46 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Relay connection diagram.
The relay has 4 marked terminals; 85 and 86 are the coil, 30 and 87 are the contacts.
(signal lamp) is tapped into the green or green-blue wire.
Repeat for the right and left sides.
Both (30) terminals can be connecrted together, so only one fuse is required. Use an in-line auto fuse holder with a 5A or 10A fuse.
All of the grounds can be connected together or to any number of different ground points as is most convenient.
Battery + ------- 30 * * 87 -------------ground
* * * * * * * * * * * * * Relay * * * * * * * * * * * *
Signal lamp ----------- 85 * * 86 ---------------------ground
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posted by
someone claiming to be n0v8or
on
Tue May 13 01:36 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Ignore the schmatic drawing. The Brickboard software refuses to display it the way I enter it. Send me a message at n0v8or@cox.net and I'll reply with the correct schematic.
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It was the turn signal/flasher relay.
I disconnected both side markers completely to return to operating mode w/o the side markers. Neither the f & r turn signal nor the hazards worked. I broke down and bought a new turn signal/flasher combo relay ($US60). I then disconnected the battery (very important), put the relay in, hooked up the side markers, and everything worked like a charm. I'm pretty sure I must have shorted something out when I first installed the side markers since I neglected to disconnect the battery. A mistake that brought the total cost of installing the side markers to over $120, plus countless hours trouble-shooting the problem.
As a post-mortem, I would say the following for anyone wanting to install side marker lights on an s/v 70:
1) The side marker lights are not pre-wired, as many people thought. You need to buy the lights with the harnesses.
2) The lights fit perfectly in the holes in the front fenders where the Ovlov emblem is.
3) It is easy to fish the wires through the fenders. Start in the front and push the fish tape (wire hanger) back to the hole.
4) The connections are very simple and the splice crimps that come with the installation kit work well.
5) Disconnect the battery before doing touching the wiring!!
6) If you need more information other than what is in this thread, I can send you the connection instruction from IPD in pdf.
Many thanks for the support and ideas from n0v8or!
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posted by
someone claiming to be francisira
on
Mon May 5 00:11 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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double check your wiring. also check for grounding.
good luck
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