Hi-

Has anyone negotiated with their dealer for a new car either the same model or an upgrade due to problems with the original car?

Presently, I am in negotiations to swap out of my S40 for an S60 and I'd like to know if anyone else has done this and what the terms of their negotiations ended up to be.

Thanks,

Georgina

Hi,

I tried to trade my Lemon 99 XC in for a 02 XC last fall. I tried to work the deal from the dealer that sold me the car and has been servicing the car since I purchased the car new. So the Dealer was fully aware of my dissatisfaction with my 99 XC and all of the problems I was having.

What I got for a deal was one that I could easily walk away from.

First, they would not give me the fair Blue Book value for the car. The Dealer offered me $2,000 USD below Kelly Blue Book price for a 99 XC in Good condition (around $18,000 USD, KBB stated the car is worth $20,500 in good condition). They stated the reason for the low offer is that the car had nothing but problems. Duh, no kidding!

Second, I got virtually no discount for the new 02 XC except the $1000 USD discount that Volvo (The Factory) was giving repeat owners. The new 02 XC I was looking at was going for $41,000 so the offer was $40,000. Therefore the out of pocket expense for me would have been $22,000 USD (not including Caifornia Taxes).

So I walked away from the deal very disappointed in the Dealer and Volvo. I was figuring that I was un-lucky enough to get that one problem child for a car and that the Dealer would help to make things right by giving me a good deal on a new 02 XC. Well I was wrong.

Good Luck if you decide to trade up. I have heard nothing but good things about the S60.

Best Wishes,

Steven---

Georgina,

I remember reading a post from someone who swapped their S40 for an S60 and said they'd had no problems with the S60.

Let me say this: if your S40 is problematic, then take the S60 (especially if at no additional cost to you)--which is a much better car all the way around. What do you have to lose over a problem S40? From reading the various forums on the web, people seem pretty happy with the reliability of the S60. Most complaints i've read were with regard to the throttle response issue (not a breakdown, but a dislike) that was resolved in the 2002 model year.

Aren't you concerned about Volvo's poor service and reliability? The S40 is the only Volvo to get a recommendation by Consumer Reports. I'd be wary as hell.

I do not see anywhere that the S60 is not a reliable car...

Yannis
--
2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17" 'Tethys' alloys

My source is the April 02 Consumer Reports. You are right that CR did not specifically rate the S60's reliability. However, the trend of the other Volvos (including S40) that were rated is below average in reliability. Unless Volvo has made drastic changes on the S60, I would extrapolate Volvo's below average reliability to the S60.

Otherwise, it's my understanding that if your car meets your state's "lemon law" criteria they usually refund your money. Which you can then take over to another dealer, any dealer. If you're not "lemon law", it's whatever you (and/or your lawyers) can negotiate.

For about the same money as an S40 and less money than an S60 I would DEFINITELY consider a Toyota Camry SE V6. (The only reason I don't have one is that I can't STAND driving an automatic transmission, this obviously is not an issue for you if you have an S40.) The Camry's reliability is, by most accounts, the best there is. If you must buy a Euro, there's the BMW 325i.

-Punxsutawney Phil

The new Camry is pretty ugly...this model keeps getting uglier as it progresses! And hopefully, they solved the...SLUDGE problems that have plagued their V6s...

Yannis
--
2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17" 'Tethys' alloys

The owners are getting notices in the mail warning them of potential "oil gelling" problems. Of course caused by owners not replacing their oil on a timely basis....not to blame the ownners per say, Toyota will repair "oil gelled" (sludged-up) engines even though it's not their fault either.

Toyota also promises to eliminate the problem in new engines by increasing the oil passage diameter....even though it's not an engine design fault?.!??!

MORMIT
1985 245DL 232,000mi
2002 S40 4,500mi

Whatever it might be, who could imagine having to drive a Camry??? Life in the new century is bad enough without having to drive a car like that. I know they are reliable and all that, but that seems to make it worse......Imagine owning a car you hate but having no good reason to get rid of it.... Everyone I know who owns one hates it because of the malaise factor.....Don't do it to yourself!!!! Drive a great Euro car...enjoy it...maintain it....treat it well.....and it won't let you feel less about yourself... I have owned Volvos, Peugeots, VWs, and some old British stuff too and I have loved them all....Remember what I have said before..It is simple...If you buy a truck..buy American....If you buy a minivan or light SUV...buy Japanesse...but if you buy an automobile ...only buy European.....
Words to live by....

I agree, Camry and Accord are two cars I wouldn't bother with. Why throw your money on a dull new car? Also their reliability is a bit overrated, thus this Toyota sludge issue. It is affecting enough people that there was an article in USA Today about a month ago on oil change intervals that cited Toyota sludge.

In the beginning, Toyota tried to blame the owners "They were not changing their oil often enough". Since the numbers of complaints have grown they have played C.Y.A. by terming sludge as oil gelling (more palatable) and compensating customer repairs...finally.

Speaking of lemons, a coworker of mine bought an Accord about four months ago. It's been back to the dealer five times for "Check Engine" light and various other problems. Bought my wife's S40 seven months ago...flawless (have not seen the dealer since we picked the car up) and I intend to maintain it that way.

The odd lemon pops up for any make of car.

MORMIT
1985 245DL 232,000mi
2002 S40 4,700mi

I would suggest reading around the Internet again. The Net is full of people (in the thousands) who claim that they have followed Toyota's and Lexus' maintenance schedule religiously...There is the story of a TEACHER...she got fed up with Toyota's Bull$3!t and started her own web page and in a few weeks she had THOUSANDS of Toyota owners who have had to fork upward of $8,000 for engine replacement. Finally, Toyota relented and they are reimburing all these people plus were forced to redesign the latest version of theur V6 engine.

Yannis
--
2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17" 'Tethys' alloys

I would love to walk away from my lease. Unfortunately, my issues do not fall under California lemon law. So, I have to settle for the next best thing and that's a different car. I am very wary of Volvo but I'm in a locked position unless the car is stolen or wrecked beyond repair.