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Manual Boost Controller (long) 850

Well, I have been watching serveral lists and looking at all the posts for the subject of putting a manual boost controller on an 850 T. I will give the standard disclaimers. You must first have a calibrated boost gauge installed and be aware that you could melt down a piston if you have too much boost and not enough fuel. Here is what I have come up with.

First I will start with a background on boost controllers. For those who know the difference just skip down. There are 2 type of controllers, the first is a bleed valve named for what it does. It is just a valve that vents boost on the wastegate line directly to the atmosphere. What this does is increase the amount of boost needed to allow the wastegate door to open. It does not trick the computer, but slow down the computers reaction time and limit the amout of boost it can dump. This is a simple and effective way of getting more boost, but it does have flaws. Due to differences in temp and humidity the boost level will change. So you have to constanly watch and adjust it. Also, it actually increases spool up time on the turbo because the wastegate is still getting some pressure. Not what I wanted to do. The second kind of boost controller is a ball and spring controller. This device has a ball that blocks boost untill the spring loading it can be moved. The more pressure from the spring the higher the boost level. So what you do is put this device on the wastegate line and it will not allow the boost to open the wastegate until enough pressure builds to unseat the ball. Resulting in instant spoolup and no variation with temp or humitidy. Now there is one mod most people do to these devices. They put a small hole on the exit side of the device. What this does is prevent boost from getting trapped between the wastegate and the ball. If that were to happen you would not be able to build boost and it would create lag. These devices go under the names of Dawes device, g-valve, Hallman controller, or ball and spring. All are the same in function. This is the device I chose. I built it myself from the instructions here for about $13 total.

Now the question is always how to install the device and can it be used on the 850T?

First a word about chip tuning. Most factory programs have fuel maps up to very high boost levels to compensate for spikes and mechanical falure. So almost always there are maps created for the case where the wastegate fails to open due to a mechanical failure. It may result in a code or shutting down the fuel, but the plan (so to speak) is there. The aftermarket chip tuners take advantage of this stock plan and just tweak it. This is the case of the 850. You can safely run 11-13 psi and the stock computer will controll it just fine. Much above that and it will still supply fuel, but it will start to turn on codes.

Second, the old adjusting the wastegate rod trick. What this does is on the same lines as the bleed valve. By shortening the rod you actually increase the amount the actuater needs to travel to bleed boost. So, it does the same thing as a bleed valve does, but without the side effects of a bleed valve. However if you shorten it too much you will get spikes and erratic boost. Eventually resulting in a code. Good to help spool up, but not a good way to increase boost.

To help explain how to install the ball and spring controller(BASC) I need to explain how the computer controlls boost. On the side of the air box there is a solenoid with 3 lines on it. One is source boost, one is exit boost to the wastegate and the last is a vent. (Remeber the hole on the BASC) What the computer does is watch boost via the map sensor and when a level of boost is reached it starts to pulse the solenoid to trigger the waste gate. The more boost the more pulses. The advantage to this is the computer has controll over the movement of the wastegate. The disadvantage is the reaction time of the computer. Because the computer cannot react instantly spikes occur before it can bleed down extra boost.

So knowing all this where do I put the BASC. Well I have seen a number of people putting them right on the wastegate line of the solenoid. That will work, but when I read this I thought to myself that has to increase reaction time of the solenoid and must result in some great spikes. So when I tried this I was not surprised to see spikes as high as 16-17 psi. I was able to control boost to 11 psi overall, but the spikes were what I consider dangerous. So, I tried what I initially thought would work and teed into the supply line to the solenoid and capped off the wastegate line for the solenoid with a bolt. This provided the result I wanted. Very consistant boost with very limited spikes (1-2psi). So, now I was happy and I spent some time calibrating the boost to 11psi. The result is a very fast spoolup, great power, and very few spikes. Below is a diagram of where to install the BASC.

Selonoid
--------|------> vent to atmosphere
--------|-------------------->(old) to wastegate (plug this line)
--------|
--------|------------tee goes here-------->boost line from turbo

---------Tee into supply line above|---BASC------>(new)to wastegate

Just a couple more words on the wastegate rod. If you do this mod, but already added 4+ turns to the wastegate rod, expect big spikes. You shouldn't need any turns on the rod, but 2-3 won't hurt it. More than that and you are increasing the reaction time of the controller and during shifts or sudden acceleration you will get some nice spikes. I would suggest turning the rod back close to stock.

What I tried to do here was give 850 specific info on using a manual boost controller. I am not saying this is the best way to go and if you are have fear or are not mechanically inclined go with a chip tuner. Many detailed instructions on building and setting controllers can be found all over the web, however I have not found any 850 specific install instructions. This would be the best way to go for the 850 T or R BASC installation.

Kevin








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    Manual Boost Controller (long) 850

    are the three lines you are talking about on hte side of the airbox near the MAF and are they color coded red blue and green i think?

    if so what color line did you put the G valve into? and is the wastegate hose the red one?

    looking at your post i think this is the one.

    Thanks for the help

    Dan








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    Installing a HKS variable boost controller

    I am still new to all of this and need a lot of help. I own a 1994 940 Turbo with the following modifications: modified airbox with K&N panel filter, MVP 3" complete exhaust system, one turn on the wastegate rod. Last fall I bought a HKS variable boost controller (part # 17265-111US) from a local speed shop, but never got around to installing it - didn't want to start cutting hoses until I fully understood what I was doing. I've checked the forums on this site and Turbobricks and I still can't figure out how to do this installation. Putting a tee into the actuator pressure line between the turbo and the wastegate actuator, then connecting a hose to the Flow In side of the valve makes sense, but I have no clue how/where to connect the Flow Out side of the valve to a compressor suction source as instructed. Can anyone point me in the right direction?








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    Manual Boost Controller (long) 850

    I just finished installing my TurboXs Bleed type controller on Friday (before reading your post). Since it is a bleed type I decided to try and install it after the solenoid and before the wastegate. Does it work......Yes and no. I had to open the bleed valve almost to the stops to get any descent increase in boost but it still seemed to stop about 10lbs constant with spikes to 12psi. I'm not sure why. I was hoping for 12-13psi, but I still definitely noticed the improvement at 10 psi.

    I had already decided to bypass the solenoid entirely before I read your post, but it was nice to see your writeup. I will make the change either tonight or tomorrow and see what difference it makes.

    I am actually toying with the idea of trying to install a ball and spring set to 10 psi for quicker spoolup, and then the bleed for 12 psi to help limit spiking. We'll see how it goes.
    --
    Nathan Valles, Black 855R, Tint








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      Manual Boost Controller (long) V70-XC70 1998

      Hi Everyone,

      I'm new to the Brickboard, we just purchased our 1998 V70R a few weeks ago, but I've got a good deal of experience messing with the boost in my turbo Toyota and I think I may know a couple of ways to solve your problem.

      When using a "bleed" type of boost controller you will get much better results if take some steps to optimize how it bleeds air. Right now your controller is having trouble bleeding off enough air to raise boost.

      One cause of this can be the orientation of the bleed valve. I'm an artist, not an engineer so I don't know the fluid dynamics, but essentially the air in the source line prefers to continue flowing down the "source" line rather than escaping through a bleed that is perpendicular to the "source" line. If your boost contoller does not force the air in the "source" to flow directly into the "bleed" you can have trouble removing enough pressure to raise boost.

      Another cause of this is that there is simply too much air flowing through the "source" line. If there is "X" amount of air flowing through the "source" line but your bleed can only flow "x" amount of air out then you may have trouble bleeding enough air... In this case you can work around the problem by limiting the amount of air flowing through the "source" line. Usually this is done with an inline restrictor of some sort or even just by using smaller diameter hoses.

      NOTE: This is "general" boost controller advice. I have NO first hand experience raising the boost on a Volvo and there may be other factors involved that I am not aware of. Use a good boost gauge, listen for detonation and be CONSERVATIVE when you start adding boost.

      One more thing... IMO Ball & Spring boost controllers are much easier to install and perform better than "bleed" valves.

      - Matt Crawley
      1998 V70R awd
      1991 Toyota Celica All-Trac









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      Manual Boost Controller (long) 850

      I have my BASC set to 10.5 psi and I don't get spikes above 12 psi. It is very stable and the spoolup time is instant. Not that I try, but it will smoke the tires in fist gear at half throttle. I learned that on accident.

      Good luck

      Kevin








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    Manual Boost Controller (long) 850

    Kevin, this is the best, most comprehensive post that I have ever read concerning manual boost controllers, excellent job!
    I own a 1996 850 Turbo and purchased a Dawes Device manual boost controller some time ago. I have hesitated installing the controller since I wanted to make absolutely certain that I was installing the controller in the most efficient way.
    I have taken pictures of the air box/solenoid with a digital camera. Would you mind taking a look a these pictures to confirm for me the identity of each of the three lines?
    I could send this to you if you would provide me with your e-mail address.
    Thanks in advance. Fred A. Schertenlieb








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      Manual Boost Controller (long) 850

      Fred,
      If you send me the photos or post the photos I will point out which line goes where. I will also try try to get off my lazy butt and get my web server back up so I can post the pictures I took of my car. They are actually pretty easy to identify though. The vent goes to the airbox, or if you car it like mine the nipple broke and now it just goes nowhere. The supply line goes to the bottom of the turbo and the wastegate line goes right to the wastegate. It is very straight forward. My email address is kkwas@(nospam)wi.rr.com. Just take out the no spam. I would be happy to answer any other questions.
      Kevin








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      Manual Boost Controller (long) 850

      hi fred:
      just like you, i got a dawes device and had been sitting in my gizmo box for months and months now. would you kindly email me a copy of the pictures when you get it? (kolai_2000@yahoo.com)i just might install mine this wkend.
      tia
      francis








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      Manual Boost Controller (long) 850

      I concur with Fred. Thanks for this article!

      You might be able to advise myself and some other recent posts. Can excess boost or spikes cause chronic misfiring? My turbocharger seems to indicate 10 psi boost 92/3 of boost on stock guage) but on FOT misfires badly, looks like fuel cutout.

      Keith







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