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I've noticed during the past couple of years that there are tiny metal flakes in the oil. The car has 120,000 miles and I change the oil every 3k-4k and replace the Mann filter each time.
When I drain the oil I run it through a strainer and find bits measuring 1/16" or so that are silver, flat and hard.
The engine runs perfectly and quietly, but of course I'm concerned about a rod or main bearing or in this car, the READ drive bearing, which I understand was a potential problem and replaced later with a needle bearing.
Beginning to think I should replace the car before anything catastrophic occurs. Hate to do it as this is the last remaining Volvo in the family after about 18 years.
I've had 745T M46, 945T, 855T, C70 and this V70.
Thoughts?
Erwin
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https://www.blackstone-labs.com/spectrometry-the-marvel-of-the-lab.php
Free test kits and for $30 will do oil analysis. They have been very helpful in the last 25 years!
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1992 BMW 316 wagon:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-bmw-316-4/
No rust! South Dakota Doesn't use much salt on the roads.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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Hi,
Just to let you know have no experience in these cars!
But I believe, like yourself and others, there is something not normal here.
This gives way for me to have some curious questions.
Are the silver particles magnetic?
Cams and shims are steel.
Does this engine use a timing chain inside? Again magnetic.
Does it have a tensioner inside or that if it has a plastic guide shoe or a roller tensioner?
I’m trying to think about a style of needle bearing failure happening.
Do these engines use an automatic adjustments unit?
Does this one use a self adjusting mechanism that ratchets itself up in increments?
I have read where some engines with this design fail to self adjust and there may be a way to check it or trigger an adjustment?
My thought is leading to a wonder moment about the rollers of a chain suffering fatigue and sprockets wearing.
In my wonderment, I can see the flakes staying low down in the oil pan with the pump screen.
There are lots of baffles used to control bodies of oil from shifting away from the pumps pickup tube.
Have you cut open any of those Mann oil filters?
If smaller particles are light enough and small enough to travel into and through the pump, they should get caught during idle speeds.
Otherwise, the spin on filter will pass them in their full flow mode, of which, is somewhat just above idle somewhere!
Only up to 15% of the crankcase oil gets filtered, per pass, of the total amount of oil pumped around.
It does make lots of trips around and around though! In fact, oil can wear things like water can dissolve rock.
This is true because there is a limit that “any” fine filter media can pass.
We would hope that they are of only a few microns of size but they are larger than you would like but that’s the nature of filtering!
These things do do not clean the oil. They don’t get the time too do so!
Engines survive because the clearances are far greater in order to have flow!
The flow cools and supports parts apart from each other.
I suggest you research those particles if you can!
They should be identifiable by microscope or by acid testing!
Phil
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2008 still had the 5 cyl inline, low-pressure turbo, with a timing belt. There are no internal timing things, but there are two variable valve timing devices on the timing belt which have oil running through them. The VVT's are solenoid driven, so that metal slivers cannot come from them.
Most likely, bearing shavings... But it could come from the oil pump vanes. But the oil pressure seems reasonable as there is no light on.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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I was under the impression that 2008 was the first year of the new model XC70 with the 3.2L and 3.0T inline six (with the 5 cylinder only briefly reappearing for the 2016 model year).
Erwin references the READ, Rear Engine Accessory Drive, on the 6-cyl.
My advice to Erwin is to go with your gut. If seeing that metal in the oil makes you nervous, then ditch the car. Our 2015 XC60 had a 3.0T go south with some nasty noises deep within the crankcase soon after purchase (suspect neglect by PO). The used replacement engine uses oil like it's going out of style. It's supposed to be our "good" car but the damn thing makes me nervous. I'd drop it like a bad habit except the life partner loves it.
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XC60 / Odyssey
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Yes, it is a 3.2L inline 6. I've looked online for remanufactured engines but all I'm finding are "used" and I will not drop an unknown engine into the car. Not like swapping out a '70 V8 Chevy which can be done in the side yard with a tree and a few friends. Miss those days!
It's time for the car to go. Wife wants a Jeep WJ like our daughter's '04. Not perfect, but easy to service and parts are plentiful.
Erwin
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Hi,
Like I said I know nothing about these engines so this helps a lot towards expanding my very narrow knowledge base! (:)
I’m also not aware that the oil pumps used vanes. In my past, they were a gear driven or a considered a more positive displacement pump..
The 1/16 inch long, (hard?) and flat slivers sounds to me almost like machining chips left behind, especially if their aluminum.
Metallic or alloys, is a very wide open term nowadays!
Magnetic can even be inconclusive at times!
Careful acid testing separates things better.
120,000 is a long time to be washing out chips though?
Casting sand used to be the reason for filtering in the first place.
Nowadays, some use investment castings or lost mold castings.
On Saturn car engines, I could see the “flat bubbles circles” as patterns on the outside of the blocks.
Oil inside a cam twister sound about right. Ford uses oil pressure to open their diesel injectors.
Yep, a belt definitely throws out a metallic timing worry!
I have seen expensive car engines in the Junkyards with long chains and those curved shoe adjustment mechanisms.
Just looking at them made me wonder about maintenance to FWD too boot!
It’s why I’m a RWD 240 man!
Just like Roland in another thread!
I miss the analog odometers on these late cars and no battery to light up the clusters!
I probably would be appalled by by some low mileage numbers, wrecked or not!
The insides of these engines have no sludge and the front covers are missing and most of the driven accessories are gone!
Crushing up so many of these cars, daily, are like surgeons that bury their mistakes!
The world statistic is about 10,000 people die everyday out of natural turn over.
I was told by a Junkyard the scrap rate of cars is that many a week, in California!
Yep, a 2008 might be hard to find, wagon or no wagon! Their being high jacked by insurances and the scrap industry.
Thanks for your information.
Like you always say, “ Keeping it running is better than buying new.” When ever possible?
Phil
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I know that this is a silly question, but doess the car have a manual transmission?
I had a '61 Mini that had its thrust washers wear out - when you put the clutch pedal to the floor, you could see the main pulley come forward.
Thrust wear may be something that the engine might tolerate for a while.
Eventually my car would stall if the clutch pedal was fully depressed.
Sadly, my mother got rid of the Mini and a beautiful '49 Chevy fastback I had in the yard when I was in Belgium in the Army!
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Replace the engine or the car. It's going to be difficult to find a replacement station wagon...
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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I've left my wife know her car will be replaced. Too bad, it's been a great highway flyer. All of our Volvos, except for the C70, have been wagons.
Thanks,
Erwin
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https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=604915884&allListingType=all-cars&zip=38106&makeCodeList=VOLVO&modelCodeList=VOLVOV60&state=TN&city=Memphis&dma=&searchRadius=50&isNewSearch=false&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%3Fzip%3D38106%26makeCodeList%3DVOLVO%26modelCodeList%3DVOLVOV60&clickType=listing
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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Thanks Klaus, but approaching retirement this is more than I'm looking to spend and I'm not buying anything that new. The days of DIY are coming to an end with cars and I don't use dealers for service.
I bought my daughter a like-new pristine '04 Jeep WJ (Grand Cherokee Limited) with 113,000 miles for about $8k earlier this year. Had to drive 10 hours to Texas to trailer home, but it was worth it. As I was unloading it in front of our house a stranger turned around and drove back to ask where I found one so clean. I like the hunt and have my eye on a couple in the southwest.
I truly appreciate your assist over the years, and I may be asking more questions until the V70 is gone.
Erwin
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