Hi,

I noticed some stains on my driveway and finally got the car checked out by my Indy mechanic. The result is oil leak for sure; but he was not able to pinpoint where. I tried myself today; but I could not tell either.

The car has not been driven much overall. It has less than 50k miles on the clock. The leaking has not been major. So far the oil level still seems to be ok.

The approximate of leaking place is somewhere behind bottom of timing belt (above oil filter and oil pan seal). Do you know anything there could be prone to oil leaking?

Thank you,
Paul

Just heard back from the dealer. It stated there's leaking at the Piston Cooling Valve. The job is $1,062. I asked to go ahead to replace it.

Anyone here has knowledge/experience on this valve?

Read both of these links, even though you have only a leaking gasket:

http://matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37395

http://www.underhoodservice.com/tech-tip-volvo-piston-cooling-valve-replacement/

When is your next timing belt due? If they follow the VADIS procedure in the second link, then all they would have to do is replace the rollers/belt/tensioner with new.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new

Thanks a lot for the info, Klaus.

the car has a little over 49K miles on the clock. I don't remember when timing belt is due for replacement. Are you suggesting to get it done when they are in there?

Tbelt is good for 120K miles or 10 years, you have life in it yet! Unless the tbelt is soaked in oil, then you will want to change it out.

That is a lot of money for a $10 seal. Ask the service manager if he can get Volvo to help your wallet, it can't hurt. This is still a 'new' car.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new

Thanks, Klaus. The T-belt still looks fine. I think I leave it for a while.

The price is after %10 discount. I will try to call the service manager tomorrow morning. Do you think a different dealer can have a significant different charge?

I was a little uneasy when the service manager told me they are a totally new Volvo dealership. It is Volvo Manhattan, which had a long history. for some reason, the ownership has changed.

That just means that the old dealer finally sent his children through grad school and is getting on his paid off yacht to sail the Islands.

The mechanics are still the same guys.

But, it never hurts to ask for a 'goodwill' gesture.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new

Thank you, Klaus.

The service advisor just called and the car is ready for picked up.

I gave out inaccurate info yesterday. Actually, there's nothing broken. the advisor said the piston cooling valve was loosing. All they did was to get into the area and re-tightened everything. so there is no parts cost.

I did ask him to talk to Volvo regarding my case; but I don't hold my breath for that. I also asked their hourly rate. it is $150/hour. I think I got >6 hours of labor charges. How many hours are needed for T-belt change, on average?

$150/hr for Manhattan sounds pretty good, it is $135 in the Twin Cities. If you look around for a good Indie that does a lot of Volvo work, you will probably save $20/hr.

Dealers and thieving Indies use "book" hours to bill customers. Someone, somewhere, figures out how long it takes a novice/apprentice to do a job and this time is entered into a book. Obviously, a master mechanic can do the job much faster, but that doesn't count.

So when you go to a shop, drop off your car and pick it up two hours later, then read the bill and it says labor: 3 hours, you get all bent out of shape. But that is book time. The mechanic works on an hourly rate, plus a percentage of book time.

A local mechanic used to work part time at a dealer here, and he did nothing but 850/70 A/C evaporators. Book time = 10 hours. He did 2 cars in one 8 hour day! But the dealer charged each customer for 10 hours and the mechanic got paid for 20 hours, or so.

Timing belt? About 3 hours book. A good mechanic? About 1 hour actual time. DIY without a lift and great tools, about 3 hours.

That's why finding a good Indie and building a trust with him is so important. No book time for good repeat customers.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new

Thank you, Klaus.

It is fun to read your post. I do know a very good volvo mechanic. Problem is his shop is in the middle of nowhere in Long Island (about 20-25 miles away from my house). For a time consuming job, I will need someone to pick me up from the shop and send me there again to pick up the car repaired.

And he is not cheap. I remember I got charged for about $800 for replacing a solenoid in my 850 transmission (parts and labor).

My last DIY T-belt job was definitely <6 hrs. :-)

Best,

Just a guess, but on the 850's there is a cover at the front of engine. Called a "block off plate". That leaks and could splash oil around while driving. It has a rectangle seal. See link:

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-oil-thermostat-o-ring

Another possibility is the oil pump needs to be re-sealed. That should be easy to see with T-belt cover off.

Thank you, David.

Were you able to see the images from the links I sent? Oil accumulation is seen at the bottom of timing belt (image 2). is there weak point around there? the front of engine is dry.

Where is oil pump?

this S60 is 2.5T (T5). it should be similar to 850 engine.

The front of engine is facing the right side wheel, where the t-belt cover is. The oil pump drive gear is under there also. Your photo of the front engine mount(by right wheel) looked covered in oil. That's what made me think of the block off plate seal or oil pump seal.

Thanks, David.

my ignorance. I didn't know that the front of engine is facing right side wheel.

So spark plug #1 is closest to the right wheel.

If the front main seal leaks that will be a real pain to repair. When you get a chance, you might want to stop by a real Volvo mechanic and ask for an opinion, diagnosis.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new

I will take the car to a dealer tomorrow.

Oil pump runs off the crank. If seal is leaking you would need to remove the crank pully to get the pump out.

Thank you, David

"The approximate of leaking place is somewhere behind bottom of timing belt (above oil filter and oil pan seal). Do you know anything there could be prone to oil leaking?"

The 'front' of the engine is where the timing belt is. So I am trying to visualize where the leak is coming from. The side of the engine that faces the front contains the oil separator box and other PCV junk.

Take a flashlight and shine it down between the intake manifold runners and verify that the breather hose that comes up to the top of the engine is still connected at the bottom end at the separator box.

If that is the problem, there is a youtube fix I can direct you to.

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Keeping it running is better than buying new

Busy weekend. Tried yesterday and today. I have not been able to pinpoint the location of leaking. I took some pictures and hope they provide some useful info.

though there is oil leaking, oil level is still at an OK level.

One observation. Idling engine seems producing less leaking. After 40 miles of driving (10 miles last night and 30 miles this morning), oil is seen everywhere (last photo).

umm, how can I attache images?

Thanks,

1. images 1&2 -- from the top. the bright spot of Picture 2 is where accumulated oil is seen.
https://www.brickboard.com/IMAGELIB/volvopic.htm?js_link=1&id=12451
https://www.brickboard.com/IMAGELIB/volvopic.htm?js_link=1&id=12452

2. image 3 - view from the wheel well.
https://www.brickboard.com/IMAGELIB/volvopic.htm?js_link=1&id=12453

3. images 4&6 - From the bottom of the car. Image 6 was taken today after 40 miles driving.
https://www.brickboard.com/IMAGELIB/volvopic.htm?js_link=1&id=12454
https://www.brickboard.com/IMAGELIB/volvopic.htm?js_link=1&id=12455

hope you can see the pictures.

Thanks,

Thanks again. I am going to recheck, hopefully this weekend. I will report back

There is an oil cooler that could be leaking.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new

Thank you very much, Klaus.

How many oil coolers are there in 2009 S60 2.5T AWD? It seems there is one attached to the back of engine. Oil leaking location is much higher than that cooler. I am going to check again by taking off the passenger side wheel.

Is this a dealer only job?

Paul

Did your mechanic take off the timing belt cover and check the cam seals? There is only one oil cooler. I guess that is not it.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new

Thanks again, Klaus.

No my mechanic didn't take off the timing belt cover so the cam seals were not checked, I assume. All he did was to clean up and let the car run a quite long time on the lift. He said there was no leaking then. But there have been fresh oil stains on my driveway since I got the car back.

I did take off the timing belt cover the past Sunday; but I was not able to see the cam seals well.

He told me he was afraid of messing around with the Volvo. Obviously he is not a volvo guy. His shop is very convenient to me and I like the 2 mechanics there. I went there for some simple things (usually I told them what I needed for my cars).

It is quite a hassle to go to a dealer or a volvo mechanic. I am going to give it another shot before giving up. I have two cars available so I have time.

Paul

Make sure the hose clamps on the P/S reservoir are snug. They like to loosen up and leak for some reason.
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Current rides: 2005 Volvo S80 2.5T, 2003 Volvo V70 2.4NA, 1973 Volvo 1800ES (getting ever closer to road worthiness)

Thank you,Chris. You are absolutely correct. There's leaking. I thought I fixed the issue by tightening the clamps. But it turned out there is something else