After chipping (PES) your volvo how many turns can you get away doing the wastegate? Can you go lets say 5-6 turns instead of the 3 for stock? I heard its safe to go up to 19 PSI but never go pass 20 so can I adjust it up to 18-19 PSI after chipping and won't be any problems since the car will be running better tuned ?

Theoretically, what you propose is a great idea, but can you guaruntee you won't go over, i.e. an accurate boost gauge?

And be prepared to invest atleast one full day (12 hours) of tuning.

Then there are the issues of delivering enough fuel. When was the last time you changed your fuel filter, and how often and what fuel injector cleaners do you use?

And I think you won't need that many turns. Too many turns and the waste gate won't be able to dump boost in between shifts, i.e. say good bye to your engine. If you are that serious about holding higher boost, why not weld your waste gate shut, and get an accurate blow off valve. You will be able to REALLY control your boost, as well as get that mysteriously very popular sound of psssshh in between shifts.

> Theoretically, what you propose is a great idea,

Not really. Boost is controlled by the ECU. Additional turns will change the timing of the wastegate operation but not the maximum boost.

Otherwise why would one need to modify the ECU in the first place? Just keep dialing until you're happy!

If that's true, than why do people get higher psi with accurate vaccuum/boost gauges?

You know why? Because the OE wastegate with the actuator arm at it's stock position allows some boost to leak while at full throttle.

Yes boost is controlled by the ECU, but not exclusively.

"Otherwise why would one need to modify the ECU in the first place?"

One needs to modify the ECU because simply not allowing the wastegate to leak as much or at all under full throttle doesn't also change the other parameters of the engine that. After a certain increase, unless the parameters are changed, not enough fuel will be injected, ignition timing will be off from optimal, as well as proper valve timing, thus leading to a lean fuel to air ratio, which can cause damage. That's why many don't recommend over 3 turns to begin with, then if the engine is running fine still, try another half turn, then another, etc, until one pull's codes. When that happens back the actuator arm off.

Have you actually seen numbers on 850's with actuator arm adjustments? I've seen an S70 T5A SE and two 854Ts with actuator arm adustments. The S70 had a Haltech, two had GReddy's. The S70, and one of the 850's also had GReddy Air/Fuel ratio gauges. The both picked up psi throughout the rpm range, and both were still within operating parameters in regards to air/fuel. The S70 in question is the same S70 I mentioned with 18" x 8" Borbet rims. He has since welded his wastegate shut, and installed a blow off valve to hold 18psi of peak boost while also able to blow off enough boost between shifts on his auto trannied S70.

At the time of the waste gate adjustment, he only had a 2.5" cat-back, open element air filter, 1 coil of suspension clamped, and gauges. Now, he has a GIAC chip, 3" complete exhaust (downpipe to tip, with a 5" round chromed with rolled edged tip on a rear mount muffler), welded wastegate with a TIAL blow off valve, a number of turns on his wastegate, the iPd black mesh grill, blue bulbed head lights, DARK tinted windows, V70 R AWD front fascia, stock tranny, no other suspension or brake modifications and a shaved rear end except for a T5-R sign. He hasn't had it dynoed yet, hasn't raced it yet, hasn't had it clocked yet. All we know is even with the increased wheel diameter, his Yoko Paradas are taking major abuse.

And the highest boost he's seen is about 18psi.

Don't believe me, head to Magnus Motorsports on Keele St. just south of Rutherford Rd. and ask for Marco (the mod guy) or Rob (the owner of the S70) and ask them. They've been working on his car non-stop for the last little while.

> You know why? Because the OE wastegate with the actuator arm at it's

> stock position allows some boost to leak while at full throttle.

Nope, sorry.. You're talking about the bypass valve here.. It will leak at higher pressures. The wastegate is blissfully unaware of any ouput pressure unless the ECU on the Volvo engine will let it's actuator 'see' the pressure.

Keep in mind the difference between a wastegate and a blowoff or bypass valve. They are very different animals and serve different purposes.

The wastegate is in the exhaust side of the turbo and it's only purpose is to be able to bypass part of the exhaust gas around the turbo, so it will slow down and (slowly) drop pressure. It's controlled by the wastegate actuator and rod.

Bypass-valves and BOV's on the other hand are in the intake/pressure path of the turbo and their purpose is to control pressure-shock when the throttle is suddenly closed. They are conrolled by a vacuum line from the intake manifold and they open when the throttle is closed and vacuum is applied to their control port.

Volvo's don't use a BOV, but use a bypass valve, which feeds it's air back into the intake of the turbo when the throttle is closed. This is done to keep metered air from escaping the intake system as it would otherwise cause the engine to run (super)rich when this air is expelled to the outside. It's also more 'gentle' and controlled than a BOV and as such better suited for a 'family car'.

The bypass valves, however, *are* known to leak air back to the intake when pressure from the turbo is increased. This causes a loss of maximum boost. Welding these shut (as it's integrated on the mitsu turbo) and adding an external BOV is a well-known procedure to overcome this problem.

Also wastegate rod settings are known to be a little too 'loose', which causes the boost to come up too slowly, but it has very little effect on the maximum boost level unless you are really running the turbo outside it's specification.

Welding the wastegate shut is useless as you can get exactly the same result by just un-plugging the pressure line going to the actuator. In both cases the pressure, turbo rpm and air temperature will skyrocket out of control.

> Yes boost is controlled by the ECU, but not exclusively.

On the stock volvo's it's indirectly controlled by the ECU giving the wastegate actuator little 'blips' of pressure.

The way they do it is by using a wastegate actuator and rod setting which, if connected directly to the pressure output from the turbo, would open fully at about 40% of normal boost pressure. This is the so-called 'baseline boost' setting.

Now, the ECU has control of a (frequency)valve in the pressure-line going from the turbo outlet to the actuator. It will pulse this actuator to control the amount of pressure as seen by the wastgate actuator.

If it keeps the valve shut most of the time then the actuator receives little pressure, which keeps the wastegate closed and the turbopressure will rise. If it opens it up more cycles then the wastegate will open and exhaust gas will bypass the impeller and boost will drop.

The low 'baseline' boost setting is used to give a controllable boost-rise. As the boost is building up the ECU will start to mostly open the pressure line to the wastgate actuator once it reaches about 80 to 90% of the 'final' boost level. This will slow the boost rise and it will 'level out' at the factory spec where the ECU is constantly opening and closing the valve to the actuator to keep the pressure at the factory limit.

If you look carefully at the boost gague at WOT and keep it there for 30 to 60 seconds or so you will see it fluctuate constantly around the factory boost limit. This is the ECU in action while it pulses the valve.

This is also the reason why *only* screwing the wastegate rod tighter (without boost-controllers and such) only has a *temporary* effect on a stock Volvo turbo pressure. What it does is raise the baseline boost, but the ECU still only supplies pressure to the actuator at about 80 to 90% of max boost. But now it takes more pressure and time for the wastegate to open because the baseline boost has been increased.

This causes the boost to 'overshoot' it's maximum (the boost-spike) until the wastegate has opened enough and the turbine is slowing down enough (the wastegate only bypasses the exhaust gasses around the turbo and does not 'vent' pressure) for the pressure to drop to it's factory maximum again after about 30 seconds or so.

So the wastegate mod in itself will give you a better/quicker pickup and initial 'push' as the ECU can't control the rise of the boost as well, but if you stick it at/near WOT for longer you will see it drop back to stock levels.

> adustments. The S70 had a Haltech, two had GReddy's. The S70, and one

> of the 850's also had GReddy Air/Fuel ratio gauges. The both picked

> up psi throughout the rpm range, and both were still within operating

> parameters in regards to air/fuel.

Of course! If you remove the ECU's pressure valve and substitute with boost controller then you probably also have to raise the baseline boost up, just to be able to reach the stock setting. Actually in this case I'd go for a stiffer actuator to start with..

You could also install the boost controller in front of the ECU-controlled valve in the pressure line, so you fool the ECU in thinking it's controlling the pressure.

> welded his wastegate shut, and installed a blow off valve to hold

> 18psi of peak boost while also able to blow off enough boost between

> shifts on his auto trannied S70.

I assume he welded his bypass valve shut. 18PSI? I hope he also has forged conn-rods? Most tuners I spoke to in Sweden say that the stock 5-cyl turbo will bend and sometimes even break rods at over 15PSI if you run it with enough fuel. Only the 265hp V70R AWD engine has stronger (forged) parts to cope with the added pressure (and now probably the 250HP S60T5)

Bye, Arno.

Thanks, Arno. I think you’ve answered my post to derspi above.

… Now let me go over your dissertation 2 or 3 more times to properly digest it … :)

So, bottom line is there is no ill effect to our efforts at tightening the wastegate actuator rod SO LONG AS we don’t tighten too much to the extent it causes a Check Engine lite, right? There seems to be much to gain too. Like I mentioned earlier, and I gather many boosted 850s/70series owners feel the same, post-chipping actually results in better fuel economy. So volvo programmed their ECU to run rich right from the factory.

Question: Does tightening the wastegate rod help to decrease fuel consumption, or actually increases it? I would imagine it is the former, isn’t it, as turbo lag (w/out tightening) results in the driver depressing the fuel pedal more in order to overcome lag.

I would like to describe my experience with my SAM chip here:

Prior to fitting the SAM-chipped ECU, I fitted a S/sprint downpipe and replaced the cat with a resonator. The results were fabulous – throttle response was immediate. Turbo lag practically disappeared.

THEN I fitted the SAM ECU. Turbo lag returned! It was just like stock ECU at low revs. The SAM tuning allows boost to build depending on how hard one steps on the throttle, and also depending on whether the gear mode is Econ or Sport.

Econ mode is almost exactly like stock ECU, only diff is it builds boost to max (1.0 bar) only at high rev range and only if one floors the pedal.

From cruising speed:

Light press on Sport - I get turbo lag, it's like there's absolutely no diff from stock ECU.

Medium step on Sport - 1 gear kickdown, still some turbo lag but it will climb (not "shoot" like a TME ECU I’d borrowed from a friend and tested on my car).

Hard flooring - 2 gear kickdown, it will rise rapidly to max on the stock gauge. Continue flooring the pedal and it will go to off-gauge at about 4500 rpm (looks like 1.1bar) before coming down again after awhile.

I dunno if this is the experience of others who’ve chipped their cars. I know it’s sure hard to say, “I’ve spent a grand on sumthing and the results show it loses out to the competition …” My experience is limited to 2 tuners – SAM and TME. Latter beats former hands down – no lag on TME reprogramming. Only consolation is, price-wise TME loses out a fair bit.

That’s why when I did the wastegate turns, I felt it was that much needed breath of fresh air lacking from my SAM chip. Those precious turns actually brought my SAM equal to TME standards. …

Thanks and rgds

Jeff from Malaysia

95 855T5A SAM chip, IPD swaybars, full S/sprint exos (no cat), Bilsteins

> So, bottom line is there is no ill effect to our efforts at

> tightening the wastegate actuator rod SO LONG AS we don?t tighten too

> much to the extent it causes a Check Engine lite, right?

Yes. It can help to give you a quicker pick-up. Your chip-tune will take care of the long-term boost/power increase.

Some wastegates are set too loose from the factory (the new V70 and S60 T5's were waaay too loose a while back) and although it has little effect on the final boost level it does mean that the rise is much slower/delayed.

If it's tigtened up a little the pick up will be much better. Just keep an eye on the size of the boost 'spike' you get. If it gets too big (rod set too tight) then the overboost-protection comes in an it will probably trigger some errors.

'easy does it' is the motto here :)

Bye, Arno.

> You know why? Because the OE wastegate with the actuator arm at it's

> stock position allows some boost to leak while at full throttle.

It could occur for a short time until the ECU reacts and corrects it (there's a certain delay here, as in any control system with negative feedback).

> Yes boost is controlled by the ECU, but not exclusively.

Exclusively. What you're talking about is an overload condition, when the ECU can't cope fast enough with the input it's not designed/programmed to handle.

> One needs to modify the ECU because simply not allowing the wastegate

> to leak as much or at all under full throttle doesn't also change the

> other parameters of the engine that. After a certain increase, unless

> the parameters are changed, not enough fuel will be injected,

> ignition timing will be off from optimal, as well as proper valve

> timing, thus leading to a lean fuel to air ratio, which can cause

> damage.

Exactly! So you know the right way and WHY this is the right way...

> ... the same S70 I mentioned with 18" x 8" Borbet rims. He has since

> welded his wastegate shut, and installed a blow off valve to hold 18psi

> of peak boost while also able to blow off enough boost between shifts

> on his auto trannied S70.

> At the time of the waste gate adjustment, he only had a 2.5" cat-back,

> open element air filter, 1 coil of suspension clamped, and gauges. Now,

> he has a GIAC chip, ...

Ok, that sounds very intriguing, but his turbo can no longer be controlled by a Volvo ECU, stock or modded, in a normal way. And this story seems irrelevant, anyway.

Now, if you could produce some numbers (dyno, 0-60, etc) clearly stating that the actuator rod adjustment alone (all other parameters being the same) results in improvement - that would be relevant. But I doubt it. I've been monitoring this forum long enough not to miss someting this important.

Please don't take it personally. I'm just trying to couner-balance your opinion since you were giving an advice to someone who misunderstood some principles of ECU operation, and your advice could result in even bigger confusion.

Vadim.

He ran in the low to mid 12psi stock, and after chipping went up to around low 15. With all the other mods like exhaust, wastegate, etc, it went to around 18.

Well, you're both right but the only truth I know of is my own firsthand experience. I don't know what the other guys who have played around with their 850s and S70s have gotten but my results have been less than spectacular. You may gain just a tad more boost as a direct result of the wastegate adjustment, due to, as mentioned by Sin, poorly adjusted or leaky wastegates from the factory but I have yet to see any increase of more than 1 or 2 PSI. Full throttle or not but it makes no difference--I've had my wastegate rod shortened by 3, 4, 5 6 and now 7 turns. The only real difference is that the turbo kicks in earlier and with more ferocity. Lag is not as pronounced when the rod was at its normal, factory-spec length. I know for a fact that the car will eventually run a bit lean as the ECU adapts to my fiddling because I've been getting better gas mileage with the constant adjustments to wastegate rod. Whether or not these effects will be detrimental I don't know but I have yet to see any check engine lights.

In truth, there are two ways to go about getting more boost. The hard way entails much fiddling with BOVs, wastegates/linkages, bleed valves, electronic boost controllers. The end result may be more rewarding but remember that we're all limited to the engine internals of our particular car. Roughly 300 HP is all we're gonna see until you spend big bucks to beef up the engine. The easy and probably less expensive way is fine-tuning or custom mapping the ECU based on your needs and setup. This takes some professional help from chip tuners but would definitely serve to lessen the amount of headaches involved with getting more power and boost out of these 850/S70s. Another thing that seemingly no one ever mentions is the fact that extra boost is meaningless if you don't have more fuel to go with it. Sure, the ECU may be mapped to compensate for it but sooner or later, you're gonna find out that the stock 850 turbo injectors just aren't up to the task.

OK, I'm getting a bit off topic but I hope my own experience and some of the stuff I've read up on can shed some light on the subject.

Hi derspi

i think your experience will prove useful to those on the BB who have chipped/reprogrammed their turbo ECUs, and there're many of us around.

okay, let's just reconfirm this - you have chipped your car.

you've tightened the wastegate actuator rod, and you've actually measured the performance on a boost gauge, and you feel there's some improvement in fuel consumption?

right, i did 1 1/2 turns (initially i thot that was "3 turns", not very good at maths!) on my SAM chipped 855T5. i got the same results as you posted ie. less turbo lag at low end, turbo spools up quicker than pre-wastegate adjustment, but no diff on hi-boost.

You wrote:

"The only real difference is that the turbo kicks in earlier and with more ferocity.

Lag is not as pronounced when the rod was at its normal, factory-spec length. I know for a fact that the car will eventually run a bit lean as the ECU adapts to my fiddling because I've been getting better gas mileage with the constant adjustments to wastegate rod."

thats (good) news! can you provide more details on your experience of 3,4,5,6 and 7 turns, as mebbe give an assessment/guide as to what is the "ideal" no. of turns? are you still running on 7?

I think it's okay if the car runs a li'll lean cos judging by my spark plugs (a bit sooty ie. rich), the boosted ECUs are programmed to run on the conservatively rich side. I think it was even "richer" when stock compared to chipped, cos i got a light improvement in consumption after fitting the SAM.

yeah, i know the more-free flowing the exos, the richer it'll run.

rgds

jeff

95 855T5A SAM chip, full S/sprint exos (no cat), IPD swaybars, Bilsteins

Hi Jeff, let our learning & the saga continue...

I don't know all there is to this, I'm still very much so a newbie but I'm glad there are forums like this to share--this way we can all learn from each other (although false or misinterpreted info. is always a concern of mine). I'm so glad we got a good long explanation from Arno--seems to make sense to me and only confirms what I've read about from other sources (not just Volvo forums I might add).

Here's my experience: Yes, I have chipped my car with a Wetterauer chip and about a month ago, I had an accurate boost gauge installed as well. I have fiddled with my wastegate rod for the last month or so--3, 4, 5, 6 and now I'm at 7 turns. Still no ill effects, as in no CHECK ENGINE lights YET. I'm contemplating whether to try for 8 turns but I don't want to push my luck. And with each sucessive turn, the turbo does seem to kick in sooner and the car just "surges, pushes" more willingly and with less effort on the gas pedal. My max. boost has not changed at all--WOT, part throttle, no difference, just better pick-up. Now, as Arno warns, be careful and don't overdo it. I should add that not all 850/S70s are created equal from the factory so whereas 7 turns might work well for me, it might cause another owner to run into error codes and a CHECK ENGINE light. Experiment at your own discretion and back off the number of turns as soon as the car feels weird or you get error codes. As a positive by-product, yes, shortening the wastegate rod has yielded better gas mileage! This is awesome but it does mean that my car is running leaner than it would from factory ECU spec--whether or not the stock ECU was calibrated a bit rich I'm not sure. However, I remember reading somewhere that indeed this may be true because Volvo was concerned with the quality of gas we have here in North America and may have indeed set the stock ECU to run a bit rich to be safe. You're in Malaysia so I don't know if that applies to you...I should add that, as you noticed with your SAM chip, I too experienced improved gas mileage immediately after I got my Wetterauer chip installed.

I'm curious, what kind of boost numbers did you see with the TME ECU and what kind of boost do you get with your SAM ECU?

Hope my experience helps and keep me posted on your own findings.

derspi

first, are you sure it’s 7 FULL turns as in 360 degree turns? I did 3 turns and then found somebody else on BB (Scott Campbell on another thread) did 4 ½ (!) I was going like …. HALF?! Then I realised what i did was 3 half turns ie. 180 degrees. So I’m going back to do another 3 halves later. I did notice as one tightened the rod, it became more of a squeeze (shortened) to fix it back in place ie. the securing pin part.

The SAM is supposed to boost to a max of 1.0 bar, but I see it go off the stock gauge (about 2mm above max) at hard kickdown when revs rise to approx 4500rpm. It then gradually falls to max on the gauge. I’m told volvo dialed in some kinda safety measure in order to limit overboost damage ie. boost falls back slightly above 5000 rpm. I believe the aftermarket tuners (chippers & reprogrammers) retained this safety measure, just raised the parameters a bit eg. 1.0 bar instead of 0.67.

Ummm, the TME ECU that belonged to a friend was a special tune maxxing out at 1.15bar I’m told. It also drops back to 1.0bar like my SAM above 5000rpm a prolonged period.

Do you have lag with your Wett at low rpm levels?

Rgds

Jeff

Ps. Thanks Arno for the info and advice, i do find your comments very helpful !

…

I'm sure I did 7 full turns on the wastegate rod. I know about the little problem some may have encountered while doing the adjustment and made sure I did 360 degree turns and not 180s.

Wow, I think you're getting more boost from your SAM chip than I am with my Wett chip. I'm only seeing 12 to 13 PSI max. boost before it drops back down to 10-11 PSI above I think it is 5000 RPMs. Lag hasn't been a problem really after I had my custom exhaust put in. I've always thought that I should be getting more boost from my Wett chip and after getting the boost gauge installed only makes me more worried. I think I should give Wetterauer a call sometime this week to figure this all out. Hope there is nothing wrong with my car and ECU.

derspi, nuthing wrong on your ECU/car at all - we get different max boost cos diff market, mainly diff petrol octane ratings. here in Malaysia we have UL 92RON Regular and 97RON Premium. IPD stipulates 0.9 bar boost for their US mart ECU reprogramme while TME allows 1.0 bar for non-US markets, likewise SAM.

well, my S/sprint didnt reelly help with lag post-SAM chip, just freed some restriction at mid and hi-revs levels. only the wastegate turns made a difference.

rgds

jeff

95 855T5A SAM chip

Hmm, just another question then. Does that mean that with the SAM ECU, you have to run 97RON to get that kind of max. boost? Have you tried running the lower grade 92RON to see if that has any effect on power?

Hmmm, havent tried it before cos TME/SAM stipulate 98RON for 1.0 bar boost. Now that you mention, I'll go try this out on my next tank of fuel.

Fuel prices here - 92RON is USD0.31 per liter, 98RON is USD0.32 per liter.

We pay more for annual Road Tax/Vehicle License, which is based on increasing scale the larger the engine capacity. Lessee, I'm paying USD188pa on a 2.3liter car. A FD3S RX-7 with 1.3 rotary engine wd only cost USD44.75 a year (even tho it has more hp than our Turbo Volvos or a 3.0 liter car), while a 4.0liter V8 would tax an owner USD1974 a year.

On turbo lag, I didnt quite notice it when i first got my brick, it was only after i removed the cat that i felt ANY turbo lag there previously ewas had disappeared. that all came back with the SAM chip later of course. guess you just don't miss what you haven't experienced.

rgds

jeff

855T5A

Hmm...damn, you guys have good gas then! But then again, maybe you guys have to pay more in gas taxes as well. But you can't beat 97RON, the highest premium gas I can get my hands on is 94RON. Just a stab, but maybe you experience more lag just because you get more max. boost from your non-North America tuned ECU. I don't know, I really don't have too much to complain in terms of turbo lag...but then again, maybe I'm so used to it I don't notice it too much. There's bound to be some being a turbocharged car and all. If it is indeed true that 0.9 bar of boost is all I'm gonna get then I'm gonna have to get in touch with PES and have them boost me up with a custom ECU--I'll probably have to upgrade the injectors too to get the full benefit out of this upgrade.

Fiddle around with your wastegate and see how it goes, maybe you can reduce some of that lag you get--good luck with it.

> Hmm...damn, you guys have good gas then! But then again, maybe you

> guys have to pay more in gas taxes as well. But you can't beat 97RON,

> the highest premium gas I can get my hands on is 94RON.

If you are in the US, then the highest octane number you can get is, indeed, 94, but it's not RON - it's (RON+MON)/2, as posted on any gas pump. An equivalent RON number would be (roughly) 94+5d= 99. So don't worry about that.

Chhers,

Vadim.

Oh really, that's how it works? OK, so our 94 octane gas in N. America is equivalent to the 99RON in other markets such as Malaysia? What's the RON and octane gas they use in Europe then?

Just curious...

In Europe Premium is 98 RON (if memory serves me right) which is roughly equivalent to US 93, which is calculated as (RON+MON)/2. The difference between RON and MON for the same grade gasoline is *roughly* 10, so if you subtract 5 from RON, you'll get the equivalent US octane number.

Here are the definitions:

----------

RON = Research Octane Number; MON = Motor Octane Number.

RON is determined in a single cylinder variable compression ratio engine that operates at 600 rpm with a 125 degree inlet air temperature at standard barometric pressure. Spark advance is fixed at 13 degrees btdc.

MON is determined in a single cylinder engine similar to the RON engine with a few changes that make operating conditions more severe and therefore the octane numbers are lower. The MON engine runs at 900 rpm with a 300 degree mixture temperature. Spark advance varies with compression ratio.

--------

Hmmm, so why does TME/IPD insist on limiting boost to 0.9bar for the US market and blame it on US petrol standards? Can hazard a guess?

rgds

jeff from Malaysia

I was thinking and asking the exact same thing! I was hoping Vadim might have a clue but oh well... Does North America get lower quality gas than Europe? Or is that just a myth brought on by envious Europeans who think we have it so good at the pumps? I figure if it is true that Volvo engineers did richen the fuel mixture to compensate for low quality gas in North America then they'd have a real, technical reason though...

Jeff--

frankly, I don't know. I'm not a petrochemist, nor have I seen any data proving that the US petrol is inferior or vice versa. There probably are some factors other than octane number that determine its quality. Maybe someone on the board can chime in here?

Vadim.

Well, you're both right but the only truth I know of is my own firsthand experience. I don't know what the other guys who have played around with their 850s and S70s have gotten but my results have been less than spectacular. You may gain just a tad more boost as a direct result of the wastegate adjustment, due to, as mentioned by Sin, poorly adjusted or leaky wastegates from the factory but I have yet to see any increase of more than 1 or 2 PSI. Full throttle or not but it makes no difference--I've had my wastegate rod shortened by 3, 4, 5 6 and now 7 turns. The only real difference is that the turbo kicks in earlier and with more ferocity. Lag is not as pronounced when the rod was at its normal, factory-spec length. Iknow for a fact that the car will eventually run a bit lean as the ECU adapts to my fiddling because I've been getting better gas mileage with the constant adjustments to wastegate rod. Whether or not these effects will be detrimental I don't know but I have yet to see any check engine lights.

In truth, there are two ways to go about getting more boost. The hard way entails much fiddling with BOVs, wastegates/linkages, bleed valves, electronic boost controllers. The end result may be more rewarding but remember that we're all limited to the engine internals of our particular car. Roughly 300 HP is all we're gonna see until you spend big bucks to beef up the engine. The easy and probably less expensive way is fine-tuning or custom mapping the ECU based on your needs and setup. This takes some professional help from chip tuners but would definitely serve to lessen the amount of headaches involved with getting more power and boost out of these 850/S70s. Another thing that seemingly no one ever mentions is the fact that extra boost is meaningless if you don't have more fuel to go with it. Sure, the ECU may be mapped to compensate for it but sooner or later, you're gonna find out that the stock 850 turbo injectors just aren't up to the task.

OK, I'm getting a bit off topic but I hope my own experience and some of the stuff I've read up on can shed some light on the subject.

I would but weld it shut and blow off vavle I ain't exactly too experienced with turbo's to do all that ;-) but I was just wondering i guess like 3-4 turns after chipping would be suffient enough? I do have a boost guage VDO up to 20 PSI offered by EA I changed my fuel filter last week but I don't used any fuel injector cleaners since i don't know which would be the best for Volvo

Take the car to a mod shop, have them weld the waste gate shut and install the BOV for less than $200 Canadian plus the cost of a BOV.

Try 3-4 first. If the car runs fine, try another turn. Remember, you can also do half turns. If the car seems to stutter, lose power, and or set codes, back it off.

If you trust the boost gauge, go for it. I recommend BG44. It's the stuff volvo uses, that you can't get easily in Canada, but supposedly is easy to get in the states. If you have problems finding it, go to the service tech at your dealership and ask him to sell you some. BG44 can NOT be run through your fuel tank. It must be pushed through the injectors only. To do this, disconnect the fuel line before the fuel rail, and run the car for a couple minutes.

If you don't want to go through with the trouble, try Redline's fuel injector, or AMSOIL's fuel injector. Those are the best through the fuel tank cleaners. After that, the only other one I recommend is Chevron's Fuel SYSTEM, not injector cleaner. They are basically the same cleaners, but the fuel system cleaner by Chevron has MUCH more detergent.

I like AMSOIL's even though it doesn't have the most detergent because it is recommend to be used continuously. You use about about 8 ounces or so initially, and then a couple ounces with each fuel tank. Redline's is also good, but to my knowledge, is not recommended to be in the fuel lines/tank for an extended period of time. Chevron's is the easiest to get out of these listed, and also has the least detergent, while also being the most expensive. I can get Redline's and AMSOIL's for dollar less per bottle.

> BG44 can NOT be run through your fuel tank. It must be pushed through the > injectors only. To do this, disconnect the fuel line before the fuel > rail, and run the car for a couple minutes

What kind of weed have you been smoking, Sin???

I love how you just barge into threads, offering nothing except for insults.

Let's hear some of your knowledge regarding this issue instead. What makes you think that BG44 doesn't make an aerosol designed to clean fuel injectors that is intended to be attached to the fuel system after the fuel tank? Have you ever dealt with anyone from Volvo that did this acutal service? I've actually seen Volvo techs use this stuff on 850s as a part of the fuel injector or system service.

Gee, it's very productive to question what some has been smoking.

I originally wasn't going to post anything after the initial post, but you're just starting to annoy me.

The tool you're talking about is not BG44K. Its designation is different.

Here's a link to the BG fuel cleanning products, check it yourself.

It's made by BG44 and the product is called 44K then.

> It's made by BG44 and the product is called 44K then.

No, it's made by BG and is called BG44K. BG is the name of the company, not BG44.

I went to talk to some of the mechanics using the shop for their own cars as the shop was officially closed today while my cousin in law was shopping for a Volvo and I asked one of the techs to show me the can, and it said BG44, Fuel Injection System Cleaner, and was a black, white, gray and yellow can. It is NOT pictured on the site you provided earlier.

The can that looks most like it on the site is in the Automotive Aerosol products page, and it is the Carb and Choke Cleaner or the Chain Lube aerosol cans that look MOST like the aerosol cans that they use.

The aerosol can that is hooked up to the fuel line?