Hi, I am in the market for a Volvo wagon. I am not familiar with anything newer than the 245's. can anyone chime in on the pros and cons of getting say a high milage 740 wagon, ( I know rear wheel drive, more cargo area) vs. getting a newer fwd like a 850 or pre 2001 V70? I prefer a manual trans which has cut my choice down a lot and I do a lot of my own wrenching,(but old school stuff).
The way I see it is:
Pro for getting the 740 = More space, rear wheel drive easier to work on.
Con for 740 very high miles, (one I am going to looking at around 250K)might have a lot of age related issues?

Pro 850/V70 can find ones with lower mileage especially if I go with an auto box, Examples I see range from 150K - 200K)more amenties, (not that I care about them much)
Con 850/V70 fwd, less space, more complex to work on like change a clutch, the auto boxes are suspect, AC's seem to have issues.

My gut tells me if the 740 is in good shape even with the high miles it is the way to go, (I like old cars and don't travel a lot daily anymore)and that even a higher milage 740 will be less problematic then the newer cars.
prices of cars I am looking at range from $1,500 - $2,500

Thanks in adavnce!

Did you post this in the RWD forum as well?

I'm curious to see if there is a similar bias there toward 700-900 as there is here toward the FWD chassis... : )

I own a 90 745t (10 years) and a 98 v70 xc which I bought in October. Prior to that I owned a 245 which I replaced the engine on.

Drive both obviously and see which you like better.

The 7/940 is so much easier to work on, but I am getting my head around the new engine compartment. Of course a 960 would give u the white block and RWD and probably somewhat easier to work on than the transverse engine FWD layout. If you get a 740 put the lower transmission tunnel brace on from ipd.

The junkyard, parts availability seems like a valid issue. There are many shared parts on the post-1990 740, 760, and 940. However there are several hoods (some have a cowl panel and some are one piece) and dashes. In terms of total cars on the road there are a lot however 1987 to 89 cars have a lot of different engine and front trim/hood differences, as well as interior trim that is significantly different. And a lot of the 740-940s have been wrecked by now.

The 1990-forward is a better turbo (3rd gen). The 92-forward B230 engines have longer piston skirts (and I think thicker rods at the crank end) and avoid the common piston slap with the B230 motors. The headlights with the fogs in board are better as the headlamp itself is glass. The fogs can be restored with sandpaper and a buffer machine and surface-sealed.

The 960s/V90s share parts with 850s (at least in later years) inside down to the front seats and dash switchgear and radios. Major exterior body parts are shared with the other 700-900s. Rear suspension is independent (unlike 7-940) even in the wagons. Expensive Nivomat rear shocks like the 850s. Hoods are different, dashboards and stuff like that.

Any car this old will probably need front seat work; seats from the 960s do not fit the 940/740s. Some of the 740 plastic interior trim parts are getting hard to find, used or new as Volvo is not stocking them anymore for my 90. Dash vent escutcheons for example. Stuff like seat foam may have to be fabricated by your local upholstery people or whatever.

I am still able to find plenty of 740-940s in Colorado, but I'm sure the 850-x70 model is more common at this point.

Look at websites like FCP and IPD to see what they carry for the prospective models.

245s were also made into the 90s, if you don't need a turbo.

I think on the volvo club website you can see the production and sales figures world wide for many many models and years.

A friend of mine just sold a nice stick 744t for $750, so there are bargains out there.

"Expensive Nivomat rear shocks like the 850s."

850's never got Nivomats to the best of my knowledge. I know they came on 940SE and 960's. Maybe 760's and V70AWD's??
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95 855 GLT Sportwagon 214k, ex - 90 244 DL 300k

For the 855, these were normally optional. On the R wagon, the Nivomats were standard.
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My name is Klaus and I am a V♂lv♂holic

What about the V70's? Just the "R" wagons?
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95 855 GLT Sportwagon 214k, ex - 90 244 DL 300k

V70 R came with Nivomats and sport suspension. The other V70's were optional.
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My name is Klaus and I am a V♂lv♂holic

Sorry the longer skirt better B230s are 1993 forward, not '92+ as I said in my post. Piton skirts are longer and better oiling design, better con rods.

Any car this old will probably need front seat work; seats from the 960s do not fit the 940/740s. Some of the 740 plastic interior trim parts are getting hard to find, used or new as Volvo is not stocking them anymore for my 90. Dash vent escutcheons for example. Stuff like seat foam may have to be fabricated by your local upholstery people or whatever.

Volvo's new Chinese masters have dropped parts support for cars over 10 years old, which includes the 850 and first generation V70.

I've found several "no longer available" parts used but in excellent condition on eBay.

-BTC

'98 V70 T5 198K mi., 5-speed manual, original clutch, third evaporator, third windshield, heated velour cloth comfy chairs, factory HD suspension (1998 only), Bilstein HD, front IPD stabilizer bar, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, XC grill, C70 jewel E-Codes, V-1, Lidatek, IPD stuff, JB Weld, Original Duck Tape, zip-ties, Mobil-1 since new.

'08 BMW 328iT 6-speed manual; fewer miles...

If you are interested, you might try this guy if you don't mind traveling some. He tries to stock 5 and 6 speed 855's and V70's. I almost bought an 850 from him. I think he is an honest guy and tries to sell only good cars. Fixes them in his own shop. Don't be deterred by his prices. You should be able to talk him down a fair amount!

http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/inview/index.jsp?sort_type=priceASC&dealership_view_name=www.specialtyautosales.net

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95 855 GLT Sportwagon 214k, ex - 90 244 DL 300k

Given your climate, I would look for a 945T. Most of the 745s have rust issues, like the rear shock mounts.

The 850/70s do not 'rust' as both sides of the sheet metal are galvanized. Yes, the opening in the back is smaller and all of the running gear is up front, but they are still DIY cars compared to other FWD wagons. The learning curve isn't that great.

Finding a stick shift 855 will be rare, but there are some. The hard part is to find a high mileage wagon with proper maintenance. Yes, the evaporator can be leaky, but I would rather have that than a bad blower on a 745, at least I can roll the windows down in the summer - no heat in the winter is a bummer.

If you find a 'reasonable' 855/V70, check the time/temp on the instrument panel. If it has the temp in "C", someone cleared the check engine light by disconnecting the battery and in a week or so you will get the CEL.
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My name is Klaus and I am a V♂lv♂holic

Have not worked on Volvos other than 850s, but here are some observations.

Compared to "old school" cars, 850s are, of course, a bit more complex and mysterious, but you eventually get comfortable with that level of complexity. There is this site, and others, that can help in dealing with those grey areas.

One area that I have found that makes the 850 a good DIY car . . . right now, at least in my area (Chicago), the boneyards are full of 850s. I have observed a five-to-one ratio of 850s/early S/V70s to earlier Volvo models in the junkyards. And, because of the diversity of pre-850 models, the ratio of 850s/early S/V70s to any one particular pre-850 model is even greater. And, as time goes by, that ratio will grow even larger. When a plastic part cracks on my 850, I can usually replace it with one trip to the yard. And u-pick-em parts are cheap.

I am also suspicious of automatics, so if you can find a manual 850, that would be best--although you are then stuck with a N/A 850 with uninspiring performance.

Something to think about . . . when my car had reached about 150,000, the suspension, brakes, etc. were getting sloppy and the car just did not feel anything like the original. Armed with $2,000 worth of parts (calipers, rotors, shocks, control arms, tie rod ends, hubs, tires--virtually everything) I went through everything at once. Wow. What a difference that made. I basically had a new car again. If you are picking-up an 850 as an unknown quantity, you may want to think about doing a "restore" like I did.

Just some thoughts.

Thank you Ken for that insight. it is something that I probably haven't given much thought to, Yes, there are tons of 850?V70's to scavenge. Hmmm that may change the equation.
Also I am figuring that I would be rebuiulding suspension/brakes, that stuff is realatively easy for me.
Thank you!