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My car is having similar symptoms as flywright64 but I didn't want to highjack his thread. You all helped me to get my ac problems solved and now I got a PO 117 code according to my scanner. This has something to do with a fault in the temperature sensor I believe.
Prior to the scan, the tack went down to 500 and then the car stalled for the first time today. I was turning into a parking lot at the time and so pushed it into a space. It would not start back up until I let it cool for about 5 minutes and then within a minute it would stall again.
On Friday and Saturday, for the very first time the temperature gauge fluctuated close to the red and 10 seconds later returned to the 3 o'clock position. So it was acting strange before the stall today.
The cooling fan was on even after shutdown but did stop in a minute. Is the temperature sensor telling the engine to shut down because it falsely measures that the temerature is too hight? The sensor also had a drop of dried antifreeze in the middle of it where the wires are. Is this my problem?
Thanks,
George
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I haven't seen a code. Ever.
Worse, its the won't start until the engine "cools" slightly I don't get.
I never saw temp gauge fluctuations but replaced the $45 sensor anyway. Its mounted on the left end of the fuel rail, right next to the radiator thermostat. Changing the thermostat makes it easier to get a wrench around the sensor body.
Pretty straightforward.
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OK, well, lets start with the obvious, have you checked the ECT wiring? Make sure you didn't unplug it, break the cable, etc. The sensor is around the thermostat housing so start there and check. The P0117 corresponds to the signal too low which according to VADIS has two possibilities. A) bad sensor B) short to ground. 12-13 years weathers the cable, and all the movement you were doing in there lately could have finished the job..
The stalling is a bit odd, but here's the things the car does in response to this error:
-while the car is being driven the calculated engine coolant temperature (ECT) is adopted
-when the car is restarted a substitute value of 30°C is adopted and when the engine has started the engine coolant temperature (ECT) is calculated theoretically.
-with ignition on the engine coolant fan operates at low-speed
-when the engine is running the engine coolant fan operates at high-speed
-when the engine is switched off the engine coolant fan runs on for 3 minutes.
-idle air trim adaptation disabled
-long-term fuel trim disabled
-leakage diagnostic is disabled.
-initial boost pressure adopted.
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If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?
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Thanks for the response. I am going back to the car and check the obvious like you suggested. The wires, I believe, are intact but the protective covering over the wires might be masking a problem. The short to the ground is also something I will check.
The stalling scared me since it was in an intersection.
There is a known vacuum leak on the tree after the throttle body. I put a hose in my ear and heard the hissing noise. Just adding this to the equation if it has anything to do with it.
I have also read posts about bad fuel pump relays.
Maybe the PO117 has nothing to do with the stalling and difficulty of restarting. I will, however, get a new temperature sensor for peace of mind.
Any other suggestions?
Thanks
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Your car is falling apart!! Fix the vacuum leak ASAP, that will cause the engine to run rich.
If you found a drop of antifreeze at the ECT sensor, time to replace the ECT and thermostat. Please get OEM for both, bargain brand thermostats fail in the closed position and that can spell rapid death.
The 1998 thermostat is held down by 2 T40 screws. These screws do not like to be loosened and many have destroyed the top of the screw. Buy a really good T40 bit for a ratchet, with a 6 in extension. Apply a lot of pressure to the top of the extension (like body weight) and carefully loosen the screw. Once the screw breaks loose, break the other screw loose, and then easily remove both screws.
You will need to remove about 1 quart of coolant so it doesn't spill all over the alternator.
Klaus
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Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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You are absolutely right about my car. We got the ac fixed for .40 cents by replacing a faulty fuse. Wonderful to enjoy that ac when it went into the 90's over the weekend.
BTW, I am going to order a vacuum elbows kit this week along with a new temperature sensor and go OEM. Sadly the thermostat is one month old and is a brand called Calorstat by Vernet. I thought that was a reputable brand but OEM is the way to go for peace of mind. I know what you mean by changing the torx screws on the top of the thermostat housing. What a pain!
To pick up the story, got the car home ten minutes ago. It died within a minute of getting it into the driveway. Tack drops to 500 and then putters for about ten seconds and then it dies. The five minute drive back to my house was just fine.
Got the car restarted in the driveway and examined the engine as it was sputtering. When it died about 15 seconds later, there was a buzzing noise that was definitely coming from the idle motor. Is this normal? Also, the car gets harder and harder to start once it dies.
I've been saved from going to a mechanic by this board. I'd like to keep trying fix my car with the help of the BB.
Thanks
Thanks
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The idle control motor runs whenever the key is in posII, normal and nothing to worry about.
Your car is stalling due to fouled plugs because of the vacuum leak and a bad temperature signal.
Replace that thermostat!
Klaus
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Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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Aye,aye sir!
That makes total sense. I will break down and go to the dealership or order Genuine parts from an internet source.
So its
1)replace thermostat and temperature sensor with real volvo parts
2)clean fouled plugs - they are Volvo plugs with 10k on them
3)replace all vacuum elbows.
Anything I forgot?
I will report back in, Captain. It may take 3 or 4 days.
Thanks
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Spark plugs will clean themselves, given the correct fuel mixture. The vacuum leak close to the vacuum tree is #1. Thermostat and ECT sensor is #2, but keep a watchful eye on the temp gauge. If the gauge goes above the normal horizontal reading, turn on the cabin heat to help bring it down.
The turbo engines want an 87C thermostat while the normaly aspirated engines call for a 92C. Either will work in your car and many dealers only carry the 92C.
Klaus
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Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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Klaus and all,
I have fixed all vacuum leaks and replaced the thermostat and the ect with OE.
The car still ran rough, smooth, and then the tach went down to 500 and stalled out when first started up. The plugs were carbon-fouled and then cleaned. The car ran smoothly for 5 minutes and then stalled again after spark plugs cleaned. Tailpipe was blowing out black exhaust with excessively rich smell. Code 103 for MAF came up. Cleaned it with MAF cleaner with no change in how the engine runs.
Where do I go from here?
Thank you for all the help.
George
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103 means the MAF signal is too high. It can be one of 4 things causing it.
A) bad connection easy enough to check. Unplug and verify its not corroded.
B) Short to supply voltage.
C) Open circuit in cable signal or ground.
D) Bad MAF.
A's easy enough to check, just unplug and verify its not corroded. To check the rest:
The plug that goes into the MAF, when looking at it, terminal 1 is on the right, terminal 4 is on the left, OK? Turn off your car, wait 5 minutes or so. Check the resistance between 1 and the ground, then 2 and ground. Both should read zero, if not find break(s) in the wire(s). Then turn the ignition on (engine still off) and check voltage between 4 and ground. It should read between 0-1V, if not correct trace wire and find short. Turn off ignition. Next step is tricky, you have to connect the MAF back up, and read the voltage between 4-2 with the ignition on (engine off). You should be able to stick your probe in the back end of the connector, and you should read .1-.2V. If you don't try a new MAF. If you did get it, then its was a bad connection and its fixed.
Now some commentary: If your MAF is running near the upper limit, it thinks there's an incredible amount of air going through the system and adjusts fuel to match. So you're not only running rich, you're running very rich. But you already knew this. Try running it without the MAF after you clean up the plugs and see how it works. It should run a bit rough, but not nearly as bad as it has been running. You will set a code for it, but thats OK.
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If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?
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I have a friend helping me with this part of tracing down the problem. And here is where we are in the process.
Cleaned the plugs. All 5 were evenly black and smelled of gas. Reinstalled the plugs.
There was no corrosion on the connector but used Electric cleaner just to make the best connection.
We followed the instructions from your first paragraph and got 0 for everything but thought that this was odd and considered that the multimeter gauge was not set correctly. Is there are particular setting?
Tried to start car but the battery was dead. The interior lights were faint but it would not turn over. The battery is now being charged. Could this be why there was a 0 reading on everything?
Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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well, dead battery isn't really helpful. You should have to set the multimeter to read resistance (ohms, symbol:Ω ) for the first two and the second two with the voltage. Not really sure what type of multimeter you have, or how to set it, but for the first two it should read 0 if you touch the probes and infinity or something very large number if you have the probes a good distance apart in air.
If the tests were accurate, that leaves the MAF as your problem.
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If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?
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Update
Charged up the battery, unplugged the MAF, started the car up and it ran better. No gas smell from exhaust or black smoke and it did not stall. Plugs were not black and did not have strong gas smell. Obviously the MAF, right?
Thanks
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That's where I'm putting my money. Pick one up from the junkyard tomorrow and you should be set.
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If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?
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It was the MAF. New one installed and it's running again and running well. Thanks to all for your help.
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Just a quick update. I took my Volvo on a road trip to the beach. Averaged 29.75 miles to the gallon. The ac worked well (see other thread about my ac woes). Just such an enjoyable car to drive on a long trip.
This might not be the place to share these two stories but here goes:
1)I was driving on a long boring stretch on I 16 a little past Macon, GA. I saw another blue volvo which was the exact color as mine. It was approaching at a hight rate of speed. Just when I wondered where that Volvo was, I looked to my left. It was next to me and a woman in the passenger's seat gave me a thumbs up and a spontaneous smile. It was just a great Volvo moment.
2)On my way back home, I was on I 75 north driving past the town of Rossville, GA. It was windy, rainy and pitch black. It was so scary that I wanted to pull over at a BP station at the closest exit. That BP station was flattened two minutes later. So I missed the tornado that nearly destroyed Rossvile by a matter of just a couple of minutes. I've been on my knees a lot lately after that.
George
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Nice, good to see its working well. You were lucky to miss it, that tornado did lots of damage.
As to the Volvos, my family owns 6 at the moment, and its become a game to call out other Volvos. 1 point for another Volvo, 5 points for one same color/style as one we own, and 10 points for one that we're currently in. Most people that we explain the game to think we're quite weird. That Jeep slogan is crap, "its a Volvo thing, you wouldn't understand."
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If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?
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Thank you for the detailed instructions. I will get on this and report back. Sounds very promising.
Yes, it is running very, very rich. Hope it's A, B, or C.
Thank you again.
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I would test the MAF.
I don't remember it offhand, but there is a multimeter test procedure available.
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1998 V70 AWD->FWD->AWD Turbo 215k+
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