posted by
someone claiming to be kbb
on
Thu Aug 26 14:54 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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I need to purchase a car and would like some feedback on an S60 and S80.
I currently have a 2000 V70 and it's been nothing but trouble. I"m hoping the S60 and S80's may be better. I'm also considering getting an Accord or Camry b/c of all the trouble the V70 has given me.
Does anyone have suggestions on certain years of the 60 or 80 that may be more reliable?
Thanks a bunch!
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Well, 1999-2001 Volvos did have some terrible issues, like ETM and coil overs and 5 speed auto tranny problems.
The newer Volvos do not, yet.
Yes, Hondas and Toyotas have very good 4 cyl engines. But take a good look at the underside of the car. The front struts look like they came off a Radio Flyer wagon, about 1/3 the size of the Volvo. Same with the axles, which routinely get replaced at 120K miles or less. Don't try any spirited driving with either the Accord or Camry, unless you get the 6cyl and sport package and even then, you can outdrive the car.
Yes, all new cars have airbags up the wazoo. But which makes you feel safer? Which of the three cars have lumbar support for the passenger seat? Which of the three will let your back go dancing after a 4 hour drive? Which of the three will put a smile on your face after a few miles of twisty road? Which of the three will you like best during a torrential rain on a 2 lane road? Which of the three stops in a shorter distance?
It will be your car and your decision. At 6'7", I just don't fit in a Japanese car. Perhaps, if you are under 5'10", you do.
BTW, both Volvo and BMW have 4 year parts replacement offers on new cars which includes everything except tires.
Klaus
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Do you write advertisements in your spare time?
That makes me want to out find some mountainous twisty roads in the 850..
Klaus do you have any thoughts on the 4-C chassis Volvo's offering on the new cars? I've been satisfied without it for so long that I don't know if upgrading to it would be worth it. With more control over the shocks and such, do you think they will fail faster? At $750 option, its not the most expensive thing they offer but if I have to change it in 20k fewer miles (and obviously at a higher cost) would make me want to stay away from it for at least a few years...
And finally what are the odds the D5 (or any other diesel) will come stateside?
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The 4C stuff is really great, and it /sounds/ more reliable than I expected based on the lack of reports of drastic failures. It has been available since the mid-2000s originally introduced on one of the S/V70 R models.
Based on the Top Gear review it would seem that the 4C chassis adjustments are impressive but not "earth shattering". This will undoubtedly be much more expensive to repair/replace when the time comes.
There is little to no chance of Volvo bringing their diesels here, though I do find it frustrating that they don't just bite the bullet and get their systems emissions spec'd for NA.
For instance, their current 'hybrid' plans call for a diesel engine. I guess we won't get that in NA either? They're really putting themselves at a disadvantage by not getting the emissions spec stuff done now rather than later.
Volvo seems to be taking the "less CO2" route vs the "less MPG" route and that hasn't made things easy for them in terms of getting those diesels over here. Also I'm not sure that Volvo NA is convinced anyone would buy them. I think they want to be seen more as a luxury brand than an economy brand and some wackjob big-wig has it in his head that if they offer diesel fuel economy it will somehow hurt their chances of convincing everyone that they're a real player in the luxury performance segment (which they are obviously trying to do with the new S60).
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1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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They are trying to play in the luxury performance segment? Along with Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Lexus, Acura, Infinity, Cadillac, and even Lincoln? It's hard to enter a crowded market, especially in a recession (although from the recent luxury car sales statistics, it looks like many Americans have plenty of spare funds to demonstrate their prosperity).
Ultimately, it's all about volume, and Volvo is a low-volume seller here. For Volvo to change that, they need something unique that will attract discerning customers not interested in the Lexus-BMW "Look how I've succeeded" social class. What about practical diesels? And station wagons? And how about genuinely supportive customer support from Volvo NA? Discerning customers demand good customer support, and VolvoNA failed pretty dismally on that count.
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I completely agree with you, and I think personally that Volvo should stop trying to 'up-market' themselves and focus on once again becoming /THE/ safest vehicles on the road across the board, every model, every trim package.
It seems they're playing for luxury dollars without the brand cachet that people are looking for. This is why you have a gazillion people buying 3 series bimmers and no idea what they have (as in "this thing is FWD right?" I have literally heard that before).
I think safety, practicality, reliability, diesels, and a better dealer network would go a LONG way. They need better affordability, better fuel economy, better reliability and build quality, more-elegant-and-less-flashy luxury optional features, and a better buying/servicing/dealer experience.
It gets pretty tough to make it when you charge more money (than say a Lexus) but don't have the reliability, fuel economy, or build quality to back it up.
If I recall correctly they were doing gangbusters in mid 2000s but have severely tailed off since then.
I hope they can turn it around.
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1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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Last I heard the average age of retirement for a Volvo is like 16 years, second only to Mercedes. That was a few years ago, so it likely has gone down. Volvo needs to get back to that.
I agree with you, the luxury market is pretty saturated. The high quality, high reliability, high safety market is pretty empty. IF Volvo would go back to its roots and take this market back, I think they'd succeed quite easily. With all the Toyota problems showing them what to avoid they should be ok. They had great success with the 240, and even with the 850. They can repeat that. As nice as options like BLIS and others are, keep them options. Let the new owner decide if they want it, and those that just want a stripped down car that will last 200k get that.
They would be much better suited if they capitalized on their longevity that their brand gives them. BMW, Lexus are luxury brands. If you want to compete you can't do it from the Volvo image. Toyota couldn't compete with BMW so they launched Lexus.
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Volkswagen, Audi, and MB have diesels in the USA. It is not image, it is all about number of cars sold, and Volvo sales have been getting small lately.
Klaus
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You're right of course - I let my rage at the lack of diesels blind my judgment...
Volvo has had some serious problems with sales in the last few years to be sure.
At the very least, Volvo has some decent engine tech coming in the GTDI engines it has recently announced. They have lots of experience to lend to the turbo game, and direct injection is where it's at.
Does anyone know if the diesel engines can be installed if you do the Overseas Delivery program?
Speaking of Volvo and engines, some folks were recently discussing Volvo/Geely's plan to introduce a 7-series fighter, and the issue of engines came up... Volvo doesn't currently have anything they could use for this.... some folks suggested that Volvo could maybe use Ford's 3.5L V6 Eco-boost which is a torque MONSTER! That could be cool. Of course they are free to buy from anyone they want now too...
Interesting times for Volvo for sure.
I still wish they would ship a few oil burners to NA though.
--
1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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The overseas delivery requires us to order the car through a local dealer, no diesels. You cannot 'swap' engines while in Europe and have it shipped back, that won't work.
I had considered swapping the EU lighting system, but that won't work either.
Klaus
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haha oh well it was worth the thought I guess. They advertise that you can order the car "exactly as you want it" through the overseas delivery program because you'll pay exactly what each option costs as opposed to buying the pre-built "bundled" options packages that dealers sell - I hoped it would also include non-NA oriented options as well but in hindsight that definitely seems like folly.
I guess they only way you could get a diesel Volvo in NA would be to use an importer? Hardly seems worth it does it...
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1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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After looking it up it appears that besides the NOx emissions a certified D5 in europe would transfer over just fine. Just would have to pass safety emissions, though since its likely the same car except for the engine and electrics controlling the engine, it should get the pass since the gas version has passed...
I would be willing to pay $500 more for the D5244T10, I'd be doubling the torque from the 850.. :-)
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Twisties are always fun, just keep it in 2nd gear! Good for cleaning the valve seats and the O2 sensors, and putting a smile on your face!
The 4C is pretty neat, some of the V70R drivers think it is great and without the major problems that MB and some others have had. This way, I can dial in comfort when my wife is with me (she hates the hard ride) and I can play! It is worth the $750, in my opinion. But, I still don't fit in the newer car models - the rear view mirror gets in the way of my visibility, even with the "R" seats.
Diesel? Volvo? I would love one, lots of torque and OK mileage. I think Volvo is missing a good bet by not importing it, probably blame Volvo USA for opting for the more expensive, high bhp junk. Heck, we don't even get a stick shift. One engine choice(?) for the USA, the 3.2L, when I would like to be able to chose between the 2L or 3L diesel.
Klaus
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I thought it was the US' more strict diesel standards as opposed to European keeping the diesel out. If its just reluctance on the companies, perhaps I could import one when I get around to getting a new car...
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Part of it is standards. Europe has the common sense approach, less fuel burned equals fewer O2 emmisions, diesel gets much better mpg, therefor it polluts less. Besides, the USA thinks all diesel engines are like big rig engines with dirty injectors, belching black smoke and making a racket.
My MB diesel doesn't smell, belch black smoke, or make a lot of noise. The 3L engine just produces 395 lbs of torque, not bad when you are in a hurry.
Volkswagen also has a 2L diesel that gets close to 50mpg on the highway.
The problem in the USA is that California and New England have very stringent rules about particulates and have killed the sales of diesels for the rest of us. VolvoNA got rid of the clutch.
Klaus
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posted by
someone claiming to be yct
on
Sun Sep 5 04:31 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Every car maker has its lemons(?). I have driven a lot of Accords and Camrys in three different continents. They are as unexciting cars to drive as they can get (granted, they are supposed to be more reliable).
My 1995 850 turbo sedan is turning 16 (in my hands) in a few days (at about 200k miles) and it has been by far the best car I have driven on both sides of the Atlantic and both sides of the Pacific (at least among cars costing up to ~$250k). It has also been relatively inexpensive to maintain, and up to about a year ago, it could compete (and accelerate) extremely well against much newer Porsche 911s, V8 BMWs, V8 Audis, and V12 MBs.
Our 2006 2.5T S60 seems to be very reliable (for the first 5 years), but it seems to be made with cheaper materials than that in our 1995 850. Its roadholding is good but not terribly remarkable. It is a very good car.
My 1987 240DL was doing really well after 10 years and 250k miles, when I sold it in two days at the price I had asked for. (By the way, I like to buy my cars new.)
Oh, yes, we did have a Toyota Corolla (for 6 years) and a Nissan Altima (for 7 years), both bought by my other half when they were 3 years old. The Corolla was totaled in a minor car accident in which the other two cars sustained practically no damage, while my wife also sustained some permanent injury. The Nissan got seriously ill somewhat prematurely.
I understand different people have different experiences. Yet, my experiences suggest that I would buy a new Volvo anytime now, as long as it is a diesel and stick shift.
Interestingly, I just drove a 2009 eco (gasoline) 116i BMW in Europe; its engine shuts off every time you stop; then it starts as soon as you press the clutch. After 2000 miles and quite a bit of heavy city and mountainous driving, we got 30 mpg with 4 people in it and sometimes 6-7 pieces of luggage on it! It makes me wonder why such cars do not make it to this side of the Atlantic.
1995 850 turbo sedan, a really great car
2006 S60 2.5T, a really nice car my other half likes very much
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posted by
someone claiming to be 4 Volvo owner
on
Mon Aug 30 11:36 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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I have currently have a 1997 850, two 940's, and one 240, one for each driver in the family and a volvo owner since 1998.
I love them all and they have served us well.
But I would still suggest a Camry or Accord for reliability and lower cost of repairs. If one of ours dies, I will be replacing it with a late model Japanese car.
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